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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: giantkiller on October 09, 2017, 07:57:29 PM



Title: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 09, 2017, 07:57:29 PM
Well looks like my dream has finally gotten started. I purchased the lot March of 2016. Very nice lot in the  small town of Campbellsport Wisconsin. If you Google map it. It's the big green area on the south side of Ladwig st. Things have changed a bit from when I started. Slightly smaller way more expensive. But is still going to be awesome. I'll start buy posting my plans.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: FJmonkey on October 09, 2017, 11:00:35 PM
Awesome Dan, happy you shared the good news. That will be a sweet man cave.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on October 10, 2017, 02:53:14 AM
Very cool Dan!  :good2:
A couple of suggestions for your consideration:
1) I don't think the Building Code (IBC in Wisconsin?) will let you run your dwelling exit thru a garage
 (just a hunch)
2) Why not put you bathroom between the bedrooms? That way you can design a jack and Jill style bathroom that opens into each bedroom without having to walk down the hall.
Although I do understand the economy of having a common plumbing wall with the kitchen.

What's your construction schedule? Still planning on a geothermal radiant system?

Cheers!  Pat


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: TexasDave on October 10, 2017, 04:21:25 AM
Looks good Dan. I do like Pat's suggestion of putting the bathroom between the bedrooms. If you do keep the bathroom next to the kitchen make that wall 2x6 for all the plumbing and wiring in that wall. Your plumbers and electricians will thank you later. Good luck.

Dave


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on October 10, 2017, 05:44:01 AM
Dan,
Looks good!

Are you leaving enough room for the RV's and tents, for when you host the Annual North Central FJ Rallies?

My Dad and I were driving around Lake Dora in Mt. Dora, Florida the other day. He bicycles in that area, and has been observing various properties being built. One in particular that he wanted to show me had a semi-attached guest house/garage with room for something like 30 cars! Big house, right on the lake. More like a mansion...

If I had made better money decisions in the past, it would be mine, and I would share with all of you.

Cheers,

Steve


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 10, 2017, 05:56:41 AM
You are right Pat I put the bathroom by the kitchen for plumbing economy and ease of install. I have an acre lot. So plenty of room the deck off the living room is going to be lock dry aluminum makes it a roof also. Inspector already approved the design. Geo loops already in. And footings and Frost wall In yesterday.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Firehawk068 on October 10, 2017, 10:50:44 AM
Awesome Dan!

Keep posting the progress!  :good2:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 10, 2017, 10:06:51 PM
$5000 later and all I have is 2 black pipes sticking out of the ground


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: andyoutandabout on October 10, 2017, 10:44:21 PM
They are very nice black pipes though.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 12, 2017, 10:01:07 PM
Cutting the curb.kinda cool. Cut right through like butter.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: andyoutandabout on October 12, 2017, 10:36:14 PM
There seems to be much about construction that I do not know.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Mark Olson on October 13, 2017, 02:27:34 AM
nice job , love that geothermal stuff .  :good2:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 13, 2017, 06:05:15 AM
Going tonight after work to sign the contract for 10 kw solar system. $32,000  :good:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Bill_Rockoff on October 13, 2017, 06:46:05 AM
Nice!

What's the HVAC system going to be? What brand / model are you going with? Your ground-loop guy is sure 6' will be deep enough to let you use it for heating in WI winters, I guess, and that's a lot of pipe for $5,000. I would have thought you would have needed a vertical loop, but I'm sure your installer knows local conditions way better than me.

At 10kW, you're going to be able to go off the grid, no? What's your battery capacity? What's your electrical rate? Any good utility incentives that you qualify for? buying outright and paying up front? I know industry talk has been "under two bucks a watt!" for smaller commercial-sized installations, but this is a great data point for residential-size installations.

In fact, I'd be happy to read as much detail on this construction project as you'd be willing to post.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 13, 2017, 08:42:10 PM
Nice!

What's the HVAC system going to be? What brand / model are you going with? Your ground-loop guy is sure 6' will be deep enough to let you use it for heating in WI winters, I guess, and that's a lot of pipe for $5,000. I would have thought you would have needed a vertical loop, but I'm sure your installer knows local conditions way better than me.

At 10kW, you're going to be able to go off the grid, no? What's your battery capacity? What's your electrical rate? Any good utility incentives that you qualify for? buying outright and paying up front? I know industry talk has been "under two bucks a watt!" for smaller commercial-sized installations, but this is a great data point for residential-size installations.

In fact, I'd be happy to read as much detail on this construction project as you'd be willing to post.
I'm going with a Bosch 4 ton 2 stage water to water. With desuper heater. Inslab radiant heat down stairs. 3 zones. Center always heated. South storage will be the bikes (10 right now) ATV snowmobile etc. Will be heated just enough to prevent condensation. North side parts storage. Probably won't heat. But installing radiant just in case. Upper living space will be radiant using warmboard 3 zones also. Using multiaqua water fan coils for cooling center shop and upper living space. One big one down in shop. One small one In master bedroom and another big one in the living/kitchen

The geo loop guy is the one everyone uses. He just didn't a big school In Minnesota. He is down 8' will actually be more like 10' when it's all done. All the topsoil will be spread out on that side of the property.

The solar is going to be Pika energy island system. Battery ready. But no battery yet. Battery technology is really heating up. And prices coming down. This system is as big as would fit on the upper roof. Should be close to all of my usage but don't really know yet. So will get a year of usage. And see where I'm at. The lower roof has no shading either. Even at winter solstice. A couple of friends and I cut down the three huge trees on the south side of the property. 2 Maple's and a locust. The last Maple even though we Had a truck with a cable pulling on it. Decided to rotate and go straight sideways 6"shy of the neighbors shed.  It started to go backwards. Which would have put the lights out in town.
There is $2000 focus on energy rebate in Wisconsin. Plus will have net metering. At least until the utilities eliminate it. But should be grandfathered in If already running.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 14, 2017, 07:10:10 AM
Woohoo I have a driveway.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Bill_Rockoff on October 14, 2017, 09:42:04 AM
... no battery yet. Battery technology is really heating up. And prices coming down.
It's like buying a computer, isn't it? "If I wait another year, I can get something 10% better for 10% less money."

Congratulations, looks like it's going to be great.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Mark Olson on October 15, 2017, 01:32:19 AM
Your equipment sounds good, very nice choice with the Bosch . They work very well with very little problems.
That is going to be one sweet set up .. I like the heated floor for the FJ's , nice touch.  :good2:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on October 15, 2017, 10:47:58 AM
Hey Dan, do you plan on a vehicle lift? Not a motorcycle stand, but a vehicle lift.
The reason I asked is those lift frames put a point load, or concentrated load, on your floor slab, something you should be careful with on a 4" floor with radiant tubing running through it.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 15, 2017, 10:32:53 PM
Yes I do plan on a 2 post lift eventually. You can get a 9000lb for $1500. I will measure and leave opening in the PEX for It. The manufacturer says 4" is all you need but I was thinking of putting 1" foam under the area of the lift instead of the 2" and then it will have at least 5"


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 15, 2017, 10:39:52 PM
Footings and Frost wall up. With 2" insulation on outside of the frost walls.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 30, 2017, 03:41:43 PM
Well, they came and put the gravel inside the foundation. Before I put the 2" insulation on the inside of your foundation. Was going to put 2' inside the foundation. Between it and the slab. I spent a day digging the gravel away from the foundation. Only dug down a foot. Wow am I old. Put a 45 deg angle on the top of the foam. So the concrete would cover the foam.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 30, 2017, 03:52:42 PM
Plumbing for inslab Installed. 3 floor drains in the bays by 3 garage doors. Plumbing for the bathroom. Toilet, urinal, utility sink right outside the door, and floor drain. Going to tile the whole thing and put in a shower head. Also floor drain in the mechanical room on the north side by the stairs.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 30, 2017, 03:57:31 PM
They came and graded for the concrete. And then I Installed the 2" underslab insulation.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 30, 2017, 04:04:09 PM
Next I installed 8 guage rebar mesh to zip tie the 7/8" PEX for the inslab heat. Along with the 3 inslab manifolds for the 3 zones. Then today they came and poured the slab.

Here is a pic of the first wheel barrow of concrete


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: FJmonkey on October 30, 2017, 04:29:51 PM
The wheel barrow is symbolic right? That looks like a lot of slab to fill.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 30, 2017, 07:31:41 PM
The wheel barrow is symbolic right? That looks like a lot of slab to fill.
No they filled all but the last 10'-12' of each slab with wheel barrows. It's only 2268 square feet. It only took them from 9am to just shy of 11am. 3 1/2 truck loads. The 2 finnishers were there from 7am_ 6pm


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on October 31, 2017, 12:57:05 AM
Coming along Dan, remember you have the accumulated injuries comparable to a pro football player, so don't be too hard on yourself.
Do you think you can have the exterior walls and roof on before the really nasty weather sets in?

Cheers

Pat


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 31, 2017, 09:49:33 AM
Coming along Dan, remember you have the accumulated injuries comparable to a pro football player, so don't be too hard on yourself.
Do you think you can have the exterior walls and roof on before the really nasty weather sets in?

Cheers

Pat
More than most. Oh yeah here's what happens when you are standing on the top rail of the bed of your 4x4 pickup. Trying to strap down 50"tall bundle of 2"x 4'x8' styrofoam. And loose your balance.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on October 31, 2017, 09:54:15 AM
Thank God it was just your head.... :wacko2:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on October 31, 2017, 11:35:58 AM
Thank God it was just your head.... :wacko2:
Yah did the old slam your palms to the pavement behind your back. Does 3 things.absorbs a little bit of the impact, staightens you out to land flat on your shoulders, and lifts your head up away from the pavement. But still hit my head. Kinda knocked me silly for a little bit. And strained my front kneck muscles and abdominal muscles. But probably saved my life.
Just another day in the life of Dan McCoy


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: ryanschoebel on October 31, 2017, 04:07:34 PM
Sorry to see the injury, hope all is well. But absolutely loving following this thread! Congrats on the progress, and I will be sure to keep checking back!   :good:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on November 02, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
Not very good pictures. But here are some of the finished slab.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: FJmonkey on November 02, 2017, 02:34:26 PM
Looking good Dan. Now if you can just keep your head off of it....


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on November 02, 2017, 05:58:09 PM
Looking good Dan. Now if you can just keep your head off of it....
:dash1: :sarcastic:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on November 16, 2017, 07:31:44 PM
Finally, finally, finally. Putting the walls up. Man 12' walls are huge. When that's all that's up. Standing next to them.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: fj1289 on November 17, 2017, 12:57:48 AM
Just two standing walls and I have a severe case of shop envy!


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on November 19, 2017, 08:30:32 PM
Put 2 more walls up the next day. Just got daylight pictures.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on November 30, 2017, 09:05:48 PM
All the outside walls are up. The stairs are in. All the upstairs rooms framed in. And all the roof trusses for the lower side sections are up tomorrow the upper trusses. Then the roof.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: X-Ray on December 01, 2017, 06:27:56 PM
I am in awe, this looks spectacular


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 01, 2017, 07:14:30 PM
Thanks. If it ever gets done. I tried for years to find something. That I could just buy. But no luck. So I finally said screw it I'm going to build it exactly how I want it. Nothing fancy what so ever. All about efficiency, durability, and as close to zero maintenance as I can get. I wanted to go 4' wider and 10' longer. But even these dimensions are going well past my budget. I won't have to worry about rising utility prices. Every. And I will pay off what ever I end up owing. With part of my 401k. So no bills. What so ever. Except for sewer, water and taxes. You can't get away from those.
Sewer and water won't be bad since it's just me. And I'm making urinals for both bathrooms. Out of mini kegs. With antique tappers for flushing mechanisms


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: FJmonkey on December 01, 2017, 07:48:16 PM
And I'm making urinals for both bathrooms. Out of mini kegs. With antique tappers for flushing mechanisms

Going back where it came from eh? Good thinking...


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 01, 2017, 08:50:44 PM
And I'm making urinals for both bathrooms. Out of mini kegs. With antique tappers for flushing mechanisms

Going back where it came from eh? Good thinking...
Yah Monkey. They are a perfect design.They have a dished top perfect for the tapper to run into. Will make a drain from the top that will spread the water. To cover the inside, for the rinse. Can have different funny tapper handles. I have a golden peeing cherub for the fancy bathroom upstairs. And a shark for the shop bathroom,so far.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 03, 2017, 01:29:27 PM
Making the urinals will be the first project In the new shop.

Here's a picture of the latest in the daylight


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on December 03, 2017, 01:41:17 PM
Looking great Dan! Great progress!

I noticed no snow yet, so I bet you can get the roof, windows/doors/siding on  and everything dried in before the weather turns.

Burrrr :lol:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 03, 2017, 10:15:05 PM
Looking great Dan! Great progress!

I noticed no snow yet, so I bet you can get the roof, windows/doors/siding on  and everything dried in before the weather turns.

Burrrr :lol:
They should get the upper trusses and sheathing on tomorrow. But after Tuesday It's highs in the 20s. Luckily the first big snow isn't predicted until the 25th


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: CanDman on December 04, 2017, 09:32:33 AM
Looks great Dan.....this is right up my ally. Have been framing new homes and things for 33 years.....I would have enjoyed building this.... :drinks:
Carry on my friend and keep the pics coming....... oh.....meant to ask.....how do you guys south of the border gas proof the garage from the living areas? Up here we have super strict codes for carbon monoxide prevention... :morning2:  
CanDman


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 04, 2017, 10:23:50 AM
I'm sealing everything up. I went with radiant heat and chilled water fan coils for AC. (No ductwork to seal away from fumes) And air to air for living space. Figured I had to do air to air in the shop too. But not required. (I found a diy air to air that's supposedly more efficient than what you can buy. Just isn't pretty. So I will make one for the shop later) I'm having the underside of the upstairs. Spray foamed (closed cell). More to help seal it off, than for efficiency. I will be sealing the stairs off in the future. And putting a door into the parts storage. I put the parts storage on that side. For multiple reasons. It's on the north side, don't need to keep the parts warm. And they shouldn't give off too many fumes. They are more worried about fire than anything. Fire rated caulking, fire doors, fire rated drywall. Surprisingly I'm going way past what is required.
It's a little late to change big things. But do you have any suggestions.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on December 04, 2017, 11:46:36 AM
Dan...In your climate zone, a vapor barrier is always a good idea.

You already know this: 5/8" Type X drywall on the shop ceiling and walls will help protect your dwelling unit from a shop fire.
Get 1 hour fire rated electrical boxes for any openings in your shop walls or ceiling.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 04, 2017, 01:00:20 PM
Thanks Pat.
Yah a well sealed up vapor barrier is a given in Wisconsin.

The 5/8


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 04, 2017, 01:09:36 PM
Must have been too long winded with the post.
5/8"


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: fj johnnie on December 04, 2017, 04:37:30 PM
 I do believe that with spray foam no vapor barrier is required. That is the case here in Ontario. A vapor barrier will have lots of holes from drywall installation that foam will not. 


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 04, 2017, 06:41:34 PM
I'm having 1" (flash) closed cell spray foam on All exterior walls inside the 1" foam board on the outside, under the siding. 2" foam is needed in this zone. Even though all the insulation companies said. "All you need is the 1" flash". Then I'm going to do Mooney walls, with cellulose to fill the 2x6 walls. Interior 2x6 walls between the shop and 2 side storage areas will be filled with fiberglass Batts. The 7'x7' over head doors will be 6.8 r Insulated steel. The 3 outside overhead doors are walnut wood look 18.4r steel.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 24, 2018, 11:58:20 PM
Haven't updated the house build for a while. Will try to get you guys up to speed. Putting the sheathing on for the roof


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 25, 2018, 12:09:22 AM
Hydrovac guys pressure washing the power pole out of the frozen tundra. New pole bigger transformer. Was neat to see. They Had a bunch of large rocks. To suck out of the ground. Took about half an hour. They said If the rocks weren't there. Would've only been about 10 minutes.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 25, 2018, 12:15:34 AM
Roof on solar panels up.  10080 Watts. Still waiting for We Energies to put in the net meter and commission it. So I can start providing power for my neighbors.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 25, 2018, 12:20:23 AM
About all you'll see from the road


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 25, 2018, 12:31:36 AM
Little out of order. But a couple of pictures of the roof before the solar panels. And a view of the back yard out the window. Can't tell from the picture but just about as high as the tops of the trees in the back. My deck off the living room will be about sixteen feet off the ground.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: big r on January 25, 2018, 08:19:43 AM
Looking awesome man :good2:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 25, 2018, 11:30:11 AM
Very cool Danny boy....how many of those 7.6kW Pika inverters are you going to have?


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 25, 2018, 01:04:02 PM
Very cool Danny boy....how many of those 7.6kW Pika inverters are you going to have?
Just the one for now. According to Pika. They can be oversized 130% dc solar array. To 10k


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 25, 2018, 01:18:44 PM
Good to know....thanks Dan.  What's your projected move in date?


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 25, 2018, 02:16:23 PM
Everything I try to get done is a couple of weeks till I can get there...then next week... that usually means a couple of weeks. Was originally supposed to be done last September. But now shooting for March.  For sewer and water hookup to the street
And then just the finished grading for the lot.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 25, 2018, 04:29:55 PM
Yea, what I've learned, when a sub say's "Manana"....it does not necessarily mean tomorrow....it just means not today.

 :Facepalm:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: aviationfred on January 25, 2018, 11:06:29 PM
The house looks great so far.  :drinks:

Hopefully the weather holds off and the remaining outside work finishes up quickly.


Fred


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Troyskie on January 27, 2018, 04:00:50 PM
Looking awesome mate.

I know how frustrating the moving goalposts can be. Good to see you have a sensible outlook.

This is a fantastic journey you’re on and is brilliant to follow.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 27, 2018, 10:20:22 PM
Yes thanks. It's definitely a journey. It's another one of my creations. Like my bikes. Can't just go and buy one. Have to make it the way you want it. Plus it's my attempt at being able to retire. With geothermal and solar. Shooting for no bills. Won't have to worry about price utilities going up. Down or around.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 27, 2018, 10:24:53 PM
Yep, keep a low over head...A very smart move Dan...for sure.  :good2:
You're going to love those heated shop floors!


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on February 08, 2018, 09:13:23 PM
Well WE Energies finally has net meter up and running. So I'm providing power for my neighbors.

Finally getting siding. Still don't have man doors. But have the door jams with dummy doors. So they can install the siding. Ledger board for the deck off the kitchen/livingroom.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: FJmonkey on February 08, 2018, 10:52:02 PM
Looking good Dan, almost ready for a rally near you.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: andyoutandabout on February 09, 2018, 11:38:58 PM
I too smell a rally


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on February 09, 2018, 11:47:11 PM
I would have plenty of room for bikes. and. Plenty of floor space or space for  camping.

If anyone is passing through and needs a place to stay. Or work on their bike. My door is always open for fellow fjers.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: racerrad8 on June 27, 2018, 08:28:30 PM
Dan,

Any update on the progress for the new place?

Are you all moved in and loving it yet?

Randy - RPM


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on June 27, 2018, 08:49:17 PM
Yes, yes, yes! Pictures please!


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 02, 2018, 08:03:12 PM
The house finally got to the point that it was my turn. So I got all of the pumps and manifolds set up for the six infloor/inslab heat zones. And the 3 chilled water fan coils.
And figured out how to set up the mechanical room. With the loop pump, Bosch Geo unit, pump from the unit to the buffer tank, to the manifolds for the zone pumps. I had to drywall the inside of the mechanical room under the stairs before I could place everything. That was fun by myself, 5/8" fire rated. Especially the ceiling @ 12'. Don't have too many pictures.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: TexasDave on July 02, 2018, 08:16:06 PM
The house finally got to the point that it was my turn. So I got all of the pumps and manifolds set up for the six infloor/inslab heat zones. And the 3 chilled water fan coils.
And figured out how to set up the mechanical room. With the loop pump, Bosch Geo unit, pump from the unit to the buffer tank, too the manifolds for the zone pumps. I had to drywall the inside of the mechanical room under the stairs before I could place everything.
You put the mechanical room under the stairs? Good use of the space. However I was going to ask if I could rent that space from you for my room. I would only use it in the summer. I would not take up much space. Something like Harry Potter. Oh well ...............   :biggrin:   Hope your house is coming along well.

Dave

 


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 02, 2018, 08:24:54 PM
Ran almost 400' of 3/4" PEX from the pumps to the six heating zones and the three.fan coils.

But then got a severe case of vertigo. Spent 3 days in the hospital with them running every test they could think of. And after probably $8 or $9000 worth of scans. They decided it was probably an inner ear infection like I told them. Spent 8 days with my eyes closed. Getting better. Going on 3 weeks now


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: TexasDave on July 02, 2018, 08:31:57 PM
Hope you are getting better. Take it easy and get some rest.

Dave


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 02, 2018, 11:09:23 PM
Very cool Dan. Is there a special glycol solution your run in the circulation system?


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 02, 2018, 11:55:09 PM
Haven't gotten that far. But yes I will be.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Bill_Rockoff on July 03, 2018, 08:48:16 AM
...by myself, 5/8" fire rated (sheetrock). Especially the ceiling @ 12'. Don't have too many pictures.
"Because I can't lift the camera." 30 years ago I was carrying four 4x8 sheets of 1/2" drywall at a time; these days a single one can wrestle me to the ground and pin me under a cloud of gypsum if I let it get ahead of me.

Place looks GREAT! With my single-zone old-school residential system and a west-facing living room that stays uncomfortably warm all afternoon while my basement stays chilly and my backyard stays loud, I envy you with your multi-zone ground-source heat pump. At least it's relatively dry down there; maybe I'll leave the door open to the garage while I rebuild my blue-spots tomorrow.

Hope your health gets better.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 10, 2018, 04:50:45 PM
Well still a little dizzy. But have to work on the house. Got the 400' of PEX from the pump manifold to the six infloor/inslab heat zones, and the three chilled water fan coils all hooked up.  1700' of PEX in the three zones in the shop/storage down stairs. Now have 1200' of PEX to put in the three heat zones in Warmboard upstairs.
3300' of PEX total.

I've been told that having a pump for every zone is overkill  :unknown:

Here's a pic of everything hooked up to the manifolds. Not bad for a dummy that has never done HVAC. Or plumbing for that matter.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 10, 2018, 04:59:58 PM
Hey Dave I do have a second bedroom upstairs. That won't get much use.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 10, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
.....I've been told that having a pump for every zone is overkill  :unknown:

Good for you, listen to your instincts....You've made the right call, a pump for each zone.
Besides, with a creative valve design, you can always have the option to combine multiple zones to run off of one pump in the event of a pump failure.
Redundancy rocks, especially in your climate zone....burrrrrr.

I love your work Dan!


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: fj johnnie on July 11, 2018, 05:16:24 AM
 How many feet of pipe did you use per zone?


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 11, 2018, 01:20:00 PM
How many feet of pipe did you use per zone?
I can't remember exactly. The 2 smaller side slab zones downstairs have 2 loops each. The larger center zone has 3 loops. Going to manifolds recessed into the slabs. The 2 smaller zones upstairs have just one loop each. The larger kitchen, living room, hallway, has 4 loops. Thus the manifold in the box it has six ports. Because I was going to use actuators. But then decided to have separate pumps for each zone. So now has 2 extra ports. I decided to make a hydronic heated towel rack for the bathroom. And use one of the extra ports for that.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: fj johnnie on July 11, 2018, 01:46:38 PM
 When I did mine I used 200' loops. Apparently the temperature drop on a longer loop will give uneven temps. Did you space your pipes approx. 12 inches apart? It is the most efficient way to heat at any rate. Unless you live in Iceland and can tap into a hot spring.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 11, 2018, 03:57:29 PM
The ones in the slab are 7/8" thin wall ox barrier PEX.   If I remember right they recommended 16" with the larger PEX. 2" of foam outside of foundation. 2" foam inside the foundation cut 45deg on the top. So the slab has a foam break from the foundation. But you don't have 2" of foam showing around the perimeter of the shop floor. A 1x8 wood separation between the 3 slabs And 2" of foam under slab with plastic barrier.

Upstairs 1/2" PEX Al PEX. On 11" centers in Warmboard. Warmboard is a little more. But way more efficient.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 11, 2018, 05:36:31 PM
Just looked at my old plans for the PEX in slab. Was 12".


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: andyoutandabout on December 28, 2018, 10:46:52 PM
Thread bump. Is this place finished yet?


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 04:30:16 PM
Well still not done yet. 5 week's off with vertigo. Couldn't work or work on house. Still have averaged 53 hours a week at work. And working on the house 99% of the time by myself. Enough of the excuses.

I'll get you up to date on the house. All the plumbing roughed in.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 04:38:01 PM
I made an uncoiler for the PEX upstairs. (Couldn't afford to buy one) And installed all the PEX in the warmboard.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 04:42:25 PM
Decided to go with pocket doors for the bedrooms. That was kinda fun.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 04:49:53 PM
Installed the Panasonic cold climate ERV in the ceiling of the closet in spare bedroom. Using red turbo tube 90s to hook up the flanges for the r8 flexible ducts in the attic.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 04:58:50 PM
I roughed in the electrical myself. And Inspector approved it. Said it looked great. Not bad considering I've never done anything before. Bought a book with NEC codes. Don't know how, but it said it had codes through 2019. Actually did way more than I needed to. Inspector said the township finally up to 2010 codes. Didn't take pictures


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 05:36:44 PM
The insulation guy finally called and said he would come Monday. And spray foam the walls. And back of the ceiling upstairs 1". Said that the ceiling needed plastic up before the drywall. And he would come and put the plastic up. Then spray downstairs. While I put all the drywall in the ceiling upstairs. That would be great but I had to work Friday through Thursday. 12hrs 7-7. Got him to send 2 guys Friday and put up the plastic. Then Friday Saturday and Sunday night after work to put up the drywall in the ceiling. Then they didn't show Monday. Called him. He got back to me Wednesday and said he had to do another job. That he didn't know was ready for him. Said they would come the next week an get it all done. They came the next Wednesday. Sprayed 1" foam on almost the whole downstairs. Then their gun got clogged up. So said they would come back tomorrow. And finish. Tomorrow came and they finnished the foam. Then said they would be back tomorrow and blow in all the cellulose in the ceiling. They ran out of cellulose. So they said they would actually come finnish on Saturday. Ran out again.  And came back Monday and actually finished up. Said that the ceilings down stairs and the vaulted ceiling in the living room. Were hard to do. So they ended up putting more in than they intended. Said they used 65 more bags than they estimated.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: andyoutandabout on December 29, 2018, 05:42:34 PM
And the award for best thread re-ignition after a bump goes to........

Well you are a busy chap. I’m going to have to sit down after taking all that on board.
How on earth do you fit in riding time? After all, that’s the most important time.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 05:55:48 PM
Here's some pics of the spray foam. And some of the PEX I had to run from the manifolds to the six in floor heating zones. Plus the three chilled water fan coils for the AC. In the center ceiling, under living space upstairs.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 06:09:22 PM
And the award for best thread re-ignition after a bump goes to........

Well you are a busy chap. I’m going to have to sit down after taking all that on board.
How on earth do you fit in riding time? After all, that’s the most important time.

I still have lots more to post. But let me tell you of the one fun thing (besides work and working on the house.) that I allowed myself to do this summer. A friend from work built a mini semi. On an s10 drivetrain. Looks just like a semi, sitting in the parking lot. Then you realize It's not big enough. He said he was going to put it in the show during trucking weekend in small town near us( Waupun WI)  He said he would be there Sunday morning at 6 to get a good spot. I've always wanted to check out the trucking weekend. Pretty much takes over the whole town Friday through Sunday. So I got the 1350 running. And ran over to the show spent 2hrs checking out the awesome trucks. And went back to work on the house. only thing I did this year.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 06:20:44 PM
They put up reinforced plastic up. Then blew cellulose. Then put up more plastic. Blew more cellulose. ect.ect. For the two side ceilings downstairs, and the vaulted ceiling upstairs. Because there's not enough room to do it with drywall up. So I had to put up the drywall right away. To keep it from coming down. Also did ceiling in the shop. To get all the ceilings done.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 29, 2018, 06:39:28 PM
While looking into fire stop around the PEX. Where it goes through the 5/8" drywall firebreak downstairs.
I found rockwool. It's fireproof, water resistant, sound barrier, air barrier, and has better r value than the pink crap.
Super easy to install. And cuts with a bread knife. I have no idea why anyone would use anything else. So I filled out the 2x6 walls with rockwool. After the insulation guy sprayed in the foam. I installed 9 pallets of rockwool in all exterior walls and the walls inside the garage. Am going to use the scraps to fill in the bedroom and bathroom walls just for sound barrier.

So will have R30 in the exterior walls, and R60 in the ceilings.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: ribbert on December 30, 2018, 03:49:27 AM
Looking good Dan. Not living in a cold country, I'm amazed at how much tech goes into heating and insulating. Is there such a thing as a "Certificate of Occupancy" where the building needs to formally be signed off on as fit for habitation or can you legally reside there at what ever stage you choose?

Noel


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Motofun on December 30, 2018, 07:20:47 AM
Depends on the local laws.  In 1992 I moved into the house I was building.  No kitchen, no doors, floors were plywood, etc.  We did the dishes in the tub.  Didn't need a building permit though I got one anyways.  Only inspection was by the Utility for the electrical panel and the sewage enforcement officer for the septic system.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: TexasDave on December 30, 2018, 07:46:35 AM
Depends on the local laws.  In 1992 I moved into the house I was building.  No kitchen, no doors, floors were plywood, etc.  We did the dishes in the tub.  Didn't need a building permit though I got one anyways.  Only inspection was by the Utility for the electrical panel and the sewage enforcement officer for the septic system.
Yes it all depends on the local building codes for the various cities, states or counties. Licensing requirements for all contractors vary from state to state and city to city. How the building inspectors want things done in the same city can be different. Residential construction is usually inspected by one inspector who does it all---framing,plumbing,electrical, etc. After you pay your inspection fee and pass some cities require an additional occupancy fee. As usual its mostly about the money and pleasing the inspector.

Commercial construction is a whole different ball game. Specific inspectors for every phase of construction. Being a commercial Electrical Foreman for many years the first thing to strive for is good relations with the inspector. Find out what he requires and do it his way. Job goes a lot easier. I had a small advantage in Dallas. I knew the head Electrical Inspector because he was a fellow skydiver. That wasn't the case in the rest of the cities.

Dave 


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 30, 2018, 08:44:45 AM
Yes I have to get final inspection and an occupancy permit. I ran into a problem when I went to vote. I have a postal address which is on my driver's license. But it doesn't show up in the system for registration for voting. Until the occupancy permit is filed.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 30, 2018, 09:21:54 AM
Well I ran out of time. I wanted to get the all the drywall up, mudded, and painted. On the south side of the shop. So I could get the 3 storage units I'm renting emptied. To save the $180 a month before I got both my knees chopped out. Since I'm going to be off work for a while. I got the drywall up but didn't get it taped or painted. But got 2 of the 10'x20' Storage units empty. And half of the 3rd. But ran out of time. Scheduled surgery for the slow time at work.( November 27 )
All of the ceilings and probably 1/4 of the walls drywalled. Still have 152 sheets to hang. Mostly 12' even 6 14' sheets.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: big r on December 30, 2018, 10:00:02 AM
Are getting both knees replaced or what? That's going to be a tough haul. I had both mine done in just under a year,last one in July and just getting sort of back to normal now. I wish you luck doing both at once, most Dr., wont do them together because of mobility issues. The final outcome is awesome though,no pain and I can walk more than a half a block now. Been doing a couple kilometers a day now


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 30, 2018, 10:32:18 AM
Yes had both done at the same time. My doctor recommended that I do both. First time I saw him. He said he had a scale of 1-4. 1 being some damage. 4 being horrible. He said "both of your knees are way beyond horrible"
After my surgery my wife said he walked into the room shaking his head. And said "who the hell is this guy". He said he couldn't understand how I  could walk at all. Mne were the worst he had ever seen. And that my left shin bone was missing almost an inch. Had worn away. And that he couldn't straighten them out as much as he wanted. I was so bowlegged that the tendons on the inside were too tight and that the outside tendons were too loose.
Had me up a few hours after surgery walking with a walker. Am now a month out and finally able to take a few steps without the walker.
This has been the hardest thing for me. Had over 4' of surgical scars, and 42 pieces of metal in me.(now over 5' and 46 pieces of metal). So I'm used to working through things. But I can't just hammer my way through this. When I do my knees just swell and lock up. Range shortens. I've had to learn not to push it. Very hard for me.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on December 30, 2018, 10:40:28 AM
Gotta tell ya. Climbing up and down the ladder 42,000 times. Working on the 12' ceiling and walls. Was kinda painful.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: big r on December 30, 2018, 12:42:37 PM
Know what you mean. My Doc said basically the same thing to me. Wondered how I was still walking. Managed to straighten both legs out and gained about a half inch in height. Yea , don't over do it, I found out the hard way about that.  Got to busy and went to a wedding and a few other things and lost almost half of my motion in one knee. Took almost three weeks to get it back. Good now though. Dr. said to put off buying a new bike until the latter half of 2019. Cant wait going to get a Triumph Thunderbird with a hack so I don't have worry about falling over, can't wait


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Firehawk068 on December 30, 2018, 02:14:20 PM
Dan, you are a Beast!
Awesome progress on the Barn!
Heal up those knees...................
I want to see pictures of the Mini-Truck!


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 02, 2019, 11:27:11 AM
Dan, you are a Beast!
Awesome progress on the Barn!
Heal up those knees...................
I want to see pictures of the Mini-Truck!
I never took any pics of the mini semi. Don't know why cuz it's awesome.
I'm going nuts not being able to work on the house. I've ordered the power unit for the central vacuum system. And a few other things small things I need to finish the house. But can't actually work on it :dash2:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 04, 2019, 05:54:52 PM
The house obviously isn't really sealed up at all. Less than half of the drywall hung. And none of it mudded or painted. Garage doors aren't sealed at the top.(don't have openers up). Scuttle upstairs just has some fiberglass stuffed in it. But super insulation and designing it for efficiency. (As good as a forklift driver could come up with). Allows me to heat it up with this tiny oscillating heater. Temps in the 20s F started @ 34F. An hour and a half later 52F. Heater downstairs and pretty much the same temp upstairs. Oh yeah 3300sq ft.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: ryanschoebel on January 04, 2019, 08:01:57 PM
T Temps in the 20s F started @ 34F. An hour and a half later 52F. Heater downstairs and pretty much the same temp upstairs. Oh yeah 3300sq ft.

Impressive!


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 04, 2019, 08:52:23 PM
Seems impossible even to me. My old shop 22' x 44'. Took a window pellet stove. several hours to get into the 40s . 2x4 walls with fiberglass and 1" pink foam board attached to the bottom of the rafters. Can't wait to work in a warm shop with in floor heat. And air-conditioned during the summer. And have zero bills.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: ribbert on January 05, 2019, 01:02:57 AM
Dan, I seem to recall you had geothermal heating, if so, are the figures you quote exclusively from that or boosted by some other form of heating. Whatever, it's an impressive performance for an area like that.

Every man's dream, a warm, cosy place to play with his toys when it's foul outside.

Noel


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 05, 2019, 06:21:47 AM
No haven't hooked up the Geo yet. Just that tiny oscillating heater. Kinda freaks me out. If I leave It running  set at 68F it actually cycles off. In the 20s outside.

Center shop section will be heated and cooled at all times. Woohoo. And will not have to pay any bills for heating, cooling, cooking, lights, hot water,. nothing. (No more utility bills, from here on out. Won't have to worry about prices going up or down) :yahoo:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: ribbert on January 05, 2019, 06:26:56 AM
That's truly amazing, we  have nothing like that here.

With that sort of efficiency, a decent heavy breathing session and you'd need to open the windows to cool off mid-Winter!

Noel


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 05, 2019, 06:34:35 AM
Yah I figured I could just light a couple of farts every once in a while to heat it up.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: ribbert on January 05, 2019, 06:40:49 AM


 :biggrin:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: oldktmdude on January 05, 2019, 04:07:14 PM
   There will come a day when the government will tax you on the currently "free" energy.
I'm surprised they haven't come up with something yet.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 05, 2019, 06:36:36 PM
I know they do in other countries already.

Power companies don't like it. And are fighting very hard against net metering. Most of the ones that have exceeded. Have had to grandfather in existing systems.
When and if I loose net metering. I will go off grid. It's funny first they were begging people to do solar. Because they could not keep up with the demand. But then they all figured out "hey instead of paying this guy 10c and turning around and selling the electricity he is making to his neighbor for 27c. And telling the greenies that if they pay 37c . They can get power that is only produced via renewable. Through the same lines as there neighbor who is getting fossil electricity. Well If we make up a bunch of lies that the energy. We get from the guy for 10c and instantly make 20c off selling it to his neighbor. Is costing us money. Making 20c when we actually don't have to do anything. Then we can charge everyone more because these people making electricity for us. Are evil. Sorry. Rant over.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 05, 2019, 06:47:00 PM
The geothermal actually cost me much less than conventional heating and cooling. And that was before they reinstated the 30% rebate last year.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 05, 2019, 06:47:59 PM
  There will come a day when the government will tax you on the currently "free" energy.
I'm surprised they haven't come up with something yet.

Yes Peter, they have already done this (in some areas) The utility as convinced the regulatory folks to put a surcharge on the electric bills for homes that have PV solar systems. Last I checked, the solar surcharge runs from $25 to $45 per month only on homes with PV systems. These are for folks who remain connected to the utility ( via grid tied PV systems)
The utility argument is: Folks who have PV grid tied systems have very little to zero net kWh useage, therefore we can’t charge the homeowner based on their energy useage. The cost of the grid maintenance is then transferred to folks who don’t have solar, even though the solar folks Benefit from electricity they draw off the grid (at night)
This is not fair (they claim) because the folks who have PV systems don’t pay their fair share to keep the electrical grid maintained, thus the surcharge.

So, if you remained connected to the grid, you get the surcharge (again, in some areas) and the only way out of this surcharge is to completely cut the cord with the utility and go off grid. This means adding batteries to your PV system, which means $$$. Although prices on battery systems are coming down.

Screw those utilities, they see the writing on the wall and it scares them, as it should.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 05, 2019, 06:57:54 PM
I don't have the surcharge yet. I do have a $15 charge for being hooked up to the grid. But I paid that before I had solar. Just like everyone else. But I'm sure I will get the surcharge. But right now I'm over producing enough. And have more than enough room to add to the system. Too make up the difference. Until I loose net metering.

But luckily our government hasn't started taxing us. Like other countries do.

Yes battery prices are coming down. And there are a lot of battery technologies. That if they don't get suppressed. Will make them cheaper and more durable. Every day is remarkable. Right now.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Sparky84 on January 05, 2019, 09:49:09 PM
   There will come a day when the government will tax you on the currently "free" energy.
I'm surprised they haven't come up with something yet.

They already do charge even on a vacant block with nothing connected.
All properties with access to water main or wastewater (sewer) main pay service charges, and coming to a place near you will be the service charge even if not connected to electricity supply but it’s out the front waiting for you.
The less we use, the more the charges go up so their CEO’s can still get pay rises!


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: ribbert on January 06, 2019, 03:04:38 AM
   There will come a day when the government will tax you on the currently "free" energy.
I'm surprised they haven't come up with something yet.

They already do charge even on a vacant block with nothing connected.
All properties with access to water main or wastewater (sewer) main pay service charges, and coming to a place near you will be the service charge even if not connected to electricity supply but it’s out the front waiting for you.
The less we use, the more the charges go up so their CEO’s can still get pay rises!

Here in Australia we charge farmers for the water they catch in the dams they dig with the money they've earned on the land they own - a tax on rainwater! (which, ironically, is probably tax deductable)

You know how they get away with that? They're the govt, they just make up a law that says they can.

Noel


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 06, 2019, 04:16:48 AM
It's illegal to catch rain water in a lot of cities in the US. And we have property tax. Like what you said. I was paying $998 a year. For my empty one acre lot. Before I built the house. Now without having the occupancy permit yet it's gone up to $1987.56. And I'm sure when I get the occupancy permit it will go up again.

Luckily they can't use the added value of the geothermal or the solar for the tax assessment.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Motofun on January 06, 2019, 07:41:54 AM
US electric utilities have an "obligation to serve".  That means they must run poles and lines everywhere.  Who do you expect will pay for that?  True, you may wish to go off the grid but that doesn't eliminate their obligation.  As long as power is seen as an essential service like water and sewer than there will be a method to collect for the service.  TV cable, on the other hand, is not essential.  Cut the cord and all charges stop.  See the difference?
Move way off the grid where no services are provided and avoid all complications.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: andyoutandabout on January 06, 2019, 10:50:30 AM
‘Obligation to serve’ so you pay even if you don’t use it. Who votes for this shit? Some of the laws in America are just plain wrong. Don’t even get me started on healthcare.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 06, 2019, 11:08:10 AM
Yes I still pay the $15 a month to help them maintain the grid. That they have to maintain. For all of my neighbors. That they use to make money off of the electricity that I make for them. I don't think I should use it free of charge. But I don't think people who foot the bill for the equipment (solar that they don't have to pay for or maintain). That allows them to make money off of their system. Should be penalized with a surcharge. I don't get paid dollar for dollar. I pay more for the electricity I use. Than they pay me for the excess electricity I make.. You have to oversize the solar system by quite a bit. To over produce enough to break even. I guarantee I pay more for grid maintenance than any of my neighbors.
But the only legal monopolies allowed in the US. Power companies. That haven't had to invest in updating our antiquated grid system. Because they are massive profit making monopolies.

Don't get me wrong I don't think I should get to use the grid for free. But don't believe any of the bullshit. About it costing others for the miniscule amount of solar being generated by the few residential solar systems. Just another way for them to make a bigger profit.

And no I'm not a liberal greenie. I'm just busting my ass trying to come up with a way. I might be able to almost retire someday.  And not have to figure out how to come up with the extra money to pay for the new profit margin of the power company.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Motofun on January 06, 2019, 02:06:16 PM
Think of the grid as a market place where you can sell what you have produced as well as buy what you want, when you want it, as you want it, or not.  The "market place" doesn't exist for free.  You don't have the problem of finding buyers for your product like the Utility does nor are you concerned with the shelf life (there is none) of your product.  You don't have to worry about voltage, frequency variations on the grid (er... I mean market place) or fluctuations in demand.  These things must be controlled in order for the grid to work and it's one reason why your product is of less value than your consumption.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 06, 2019, 07:33:31 PM
Think of the grid as a market place where you can sell what you have produced as well as buy what you want, when you want it, as you want it, or not.  The "market place" doesn't exist for free.  You don't have the problem of finding buyers for your product like the Utility does nor are you concerned with the shelf life (there is none) of your product.  You don't have to worry about voltage, frequency variations on the grid (er... I mean market place) or fluctuations in demand.  These things must be controlled in order for the grid to work and it's one reason why your product is of less value than your consumption.
Yeah. Short answer because I think you must have missed it. I don't think I should use it for free. But I don't think I should be penalized (added surcharge for solar)  When they I already pay more than others. Because they make money off the electricity I produce. And I don't cost them any more than if I didn't.

I'm not posting for the debate on whether the power company needs to make more money. Just trying to share what years of obsessive study. And planning. And now physical constant hard work. A lowly forklift driver. Can do to make the ultimate manshed. Dream house/shop... Well ultimate for me on a forklift drivers massive overtime income (never worked less than 2800 hours a year)


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Tuned forks on January 06, 2019, 07:43:12 PM
Like Pat wrote, a buddy went solar but is still grid tied.  He pays over $500/year to Pigs Greed and Extortion (our utility company PG&E for those out of area) for the privilege of being grid tied.  PG&E used to send a check to customers that generated more power than they used.  Now they just issue a credit to your bill.  I recall there is a time limit to the credit as well.  Essentially they are taking your unused electricity and not paying you for it.  Don't even get us NorCal residents started on PG&E starting fires and the gas explosion in San Bruno.

For the doomsayers about gov't charging for free energy and utility companies seeing the handwriting on the wall, this is what I predict.  In the future, utility companies will get their lackeys, (aka politicians) to pass laws that will prevent anyone from disconnecting from the grid.  Of course they will say it's for your protection.  Here in the People's Socialist Republic of Kalifornia they already passed a law that will regulate how much water we can use from our water companies.  It's not far away from them attaching water meters to wells.  Once again, initially they will say it's only to monitor how much water you are removing from the aquifers.  With regard to the comment about rain water, California passed a law in the 1800's that gives the state complete ownership and authority over any water that falls upon the ground, ie rain.

Ok, that's my rant.  I'll get off my soapbox now.

Joe


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 06, 2019, 08:31:26 PM
 Back to sharing on my journey. I had studied and learned everything I could find about geothermal heating, solar and everything that has to do with building a house/shop. Been going to every build show I could find for a couple of years spent every second I could find searching the internet, watching all the shows on TV, for every little bit of information I could find. Before I started. Stilll obsessively double quadruple checking everything...

So I know as much about every detail as a dumbass like me could know.

I got three estimates for building my house. With conventional heating and cooling. I discussed with all of them that I was going with geothermal and solar. And I would take care of all of that. All of them said they would love to live in it after looking at my plans  I ended up going with the builder who was in the middle. Because he didn't care how much I wanted to do myself. But mostly because he was kinda excited about building it. He said  most people will do solar. Or super insulation. Or in floor heat. Had never built one that had geothermal heating. But you are doing all of those.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 06, 2019, 09:24:55 PM
I had figured out what I thought it would take to heat my house with geothermal. I figured about 3-4 ton.

So I got three different estimates for the Geo heating and cooling (well 4 If you count the Water furnace guy $60,000). All three had wildly different ideas for equipment. The first wo of them thought I needed "at least 6 ton for that building". They came back with $45,600 and $45,900.  No way I could even think about affording that. And if I don't do Geo it kinda defeats the purpose of building. So I don't have to worry about bills in the future. So I heard one of the most recommended conventional HVAC guys also does Geo. And he had been doing it for 30 years. I didn't think it had been around that long. I show him my plans. And the first thing he said "hell you can probably cool that whole thing with less than a ton, and  3 ton heating. You will need some kind of back up for when we have -20s". He said he would do a heat loss study and get back to me with the details. I left thinking it should be a lot cheaper since he knew what he was saying and was more in line with what I thought. Both smaller and less complicated than the other two. He called me back a few hours later and said he would use 4ton two stage water to water. Then I wouldn't have to have a backup system. Would run 3ton most of the time. And bump up to 4ton on -20 days. Even less complicated. Woohoo. He called and said he had the estimate all written up. He came back with $45,263. Guess that means I can't do Geo.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 06, 2019, 09:54:33 PM
As a last ditch effort to keep my dream alive. I asked the guy who takes care of HVAC for the plant. 1,890,000 SQ ft. He does HVAC on the side. If he could help me out. He said sure that he had helped 3 others install there own Geo systems.

And so doing it myself. So far he's just got the equipment for me at cost. And once I get it all hooked up. He'll come and start it up. And I'll pay him for that. Had the one guy they all use install the loops for me. I'm at about $22,000. And will get 30% back on taxes.
The estimates for conventional came back from $26,000- 39,000 wtf.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Tuned forks on January 06, 2019, 10:00:27 PM
So my understanding of geothermal energy is pulling steam heat from wells.  What is your definition of geothermal energy for your home?

Joe


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: FJmonkey on January 06, 2019, 10:10:47 PM
I think it is more like using the stable thermal temps below to help maintain the same on the surface.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 06, 2019, 10:33:20 PM
So my understanding of geothermal energy is pulling steam heat from wells.  What is your definition of geothermal energy for your home?

Joe

Hey Joe. Geothermal heating. Is different from the energy/ electricity production. From the heat/ steam. I know it's not technically correct calling it geothermal heating. For the residential stuff but that's what they call it.

It's basically a heat pump. That you use either a horizontal loop. Buried Bellow the frost line. 6' min for this area. Or a vertical loop. That carries water to transfer heat. From or to the house. Via the heat pump. But instead of sitting outside trying to pull heat out of the air when it's -20. Or trying to push heat out of the house into 90F outside.  Sits inside out of the elements. Pulling heat out of the average around here 56F ground temperature. To heat the house winter. And pushing the heat out of the house summer. It doesn't have to work as hard. Because difference is less with the constant 56ish ground temperature. So uses less power and lasts longer. The guy that has been installing Geo for 30 years. Said most of the first ones he installed are still using the original heat pumps.

Here's a picture of my loops being installed


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 06, 2019, 10:39:53 PM
Joe, that’s what I also thought based on my region, geothermal = ground source hot water/steam.
We have a lot of geo thermal plants down at the Salton Sea.
The system Dan has,  is what we locally call “Ground Source Heat Pumps”

A quick google search showed me that the term geo thermal is also used for describing Dan’s system, something I did not know.

Dan, I’m very proud of you, your planning, ambition, hard work and your tolerance to pain (both knees at the SAME time?)

Heal well amigo, don’t push it.....your dream will still be waiting for you.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Tuned forks on January 06, 2019, 10:49:22 PM
Now I understand what you're doing.  I work with heat pumps all the time.

Joe


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 06, 2019, 10:49:49 PM
Joe, that’s what I also thought based on my region, geothermal = ground source hot water/steam.
We have a lot of geo thermal plants down at the Salton Sea.
The system Dan has,  is what we locally call “Ground Source Heat Pumps”

A quick google search showed me that the term geo thermal is also used for describing Dan’s system, something I did not know.

Dan, I’m very proud of you, your planning, ambition, hard work and your tolerance to pain (both knees at the SAME time?)

Heal well amigo, don’t push it.....your dream will still be waiting for you.

Thanks Pat. I'm going nuts. Had to learn how to watch TV again. That lasted about 2 weeks. I have no idea how people can sit and watch that for more than a couple of hours. I've even run out of stuff to look at on the internet.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 21, 2019, 09:36:56 PM
Well been in the negatives at night and teens(F) during the day. Yesterday was high of -2F so decided to go down and check on the house. And watch lunar eclipse last night. No heat except solar inverter, and small dorm sized refrigerator running. And was still 36F inside house. Just freaks me out. 38 degree minimum difference. From just those 2 sources of heat. Turned on the same mini heater. An hour or so later 48F in the house. -4F outside when I left.
Can't wait to see what it's like to have a house and shop kept at comfortable temps all the time. And not pay anything for heating, cooling, hot water, lights and all. Heck I'll probably leave my 2 stage 80 gallon compressor on all the time just cause I can. :dance2:


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: T Legg on January 21, 2019, 10:15:55 PM
Get a thousand gallon tank and a compressed air powered generator and store all your excess power as compressed air instead of selling it to the utility


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 22, 2019, 01:37:12 AM
Get a thousand gallon tank and a compressed air powered generator and store all your excess power as compressed air instead of selling it to the utility


That’s interesting Travis, are you aware of any residential systems?

Here’s some folks over in Switzerland doing it: http://www.enairys.com/en/products/intro (http://www.enairys.com/en/products/intro)
Here’s a write up in the UAE : https://www.thenational.ae/uae/compressed-air-the-battery-of-the-future-1.338460 (https://www.thenational.ae/uae/compressed-air-the-battery-of-the-future-1.338460)

As a believer in Murphy’s Law, the compressed air system sounds to me like having a lot of moving parts to it.

PV system Batteries are getting better and less expensive, it seems like in a 3 year cycle.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: T Legg on January 22, 2019, 02:41:38 AM
Get a thousand gallon tank and a compressed air powered generator and store all your excess power as compressed air instead of selling it to the utility

That’s interesting Travis, are you aware of any residential systems?

As a believer in Murphy’s Law, the compressed air system sounds to me like having a lot of moving parts to it.
Actually I was joking.It seems possible but I don't think it would be feasible on that small of scale.with the cost of equipment even if he could recapture enough electricity to be useful I doubt it would be cheaper than buying it.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: T Legg on January 22, 2019, 02:57:23 AM
Thermal solar collectors are up to 80% efficient in converting the sun's energy to hot water.With an in floor hydronic heating system that could be a nice secondary heating scource.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 22, 2019, 09:21:41 AM
When I get that far. I will look at EV batteries. You can get 16kwh batteries for $2000. Vrs $10,000 for Tesla powerwall 2 13.5kwh.(have to purchase from authorized installer)


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 22, 2019, 10:29:23 AM
Pat the enairys system looks quite large. They don't give dimensions.  But looking at the individual components. Would be minimum 10'x8'. Probably larger. For now going to stay with lith batteries. Looks like Toyota and Panasonic are working together on an even better EV battery.

Pat also looks like the geothermal companies in the Salton Sea. Are looking to extract lithium from the Geo wells. Said to be the largest lithium deposit in the world. I think it said $2.5 billion worth.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 22, 2019, 04:43:20 PM
Hey Dan, yes, I agree. Batteries are the way to go...when you're ready.
 Hopefully the smaller, lighter, more efficient solid state batteries will then be available. No need to worry about a liquid electrolyte.

We are seeing fast advancements in battery technology. The smart money is not on lithium.
The egg heads at Stanford have developed an Aluminum-ion battery: www.nature.com/articles/nature14340 (http://www.nature.com/articles/nature14340)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5316828/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5316828/)
Aluminum is much less expensive to acquire and process than Lithium.
7500 cycles without capacity decay is equal to 20.5 years with a 90% discharge and recharge every day. Damn impressive.

Yea, lots of geothermal down at the east side of the Salton Sea following the San Andreas fault line.
 The bad news is that the water/steam quality is challenging, with a very high alkali content, highly corrosive to the equipment.
Re: Lithium extraction from the brine, I would not hold my breath....I've seen this before on a company that was promoting lithium extraction, only to disappear over night with every one's money.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 22, 2019, 05:35:51 PM
That's what Toyota and Panasonic are working on solid state batteries. Think I'll get a couple of Chevy volt batteries. In the meantime 32kwh for$4-5000.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 22, 2019, 05:52:25 PM
Yea, some used EV batteries would be a cool project, just be extremely careful.
The voltages involved on some of those EV battery packs can cause an arc to ground that is much longer than the typical 120/240/277/480 volt current we are accustomed.

...this has surprised more than a few unsuspecting folks.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: andyoutandabout on January 22, 2019, 07:35:06 PM
Beware the heat given off. Several electric bikes at the TT exploded before completing a lap and there was a fire in their pit area too. Don’t know what kind of batteries they were using, but whatever they were, those are the ones you don’t want.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 22, 2019, 10:14:02 PM
Yea, some used EV batteries would be a cool project, just be extremely careful.
The voltages involved on some of those EV battery packs can cause an arc to ground that is much longer than the typical 120/240/277/480 volt current we are accustomed.

...this has surprised more than a few unsuspecting folks.

When I get that far I'll spend a lot of time studying everything I can find.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: FJmonkey on January 22, 2019, 11:26:42 PM
When I get that far I'll spend a lot of time studying everything I can find.

And you will have shrapnel (need to see the X-rays) to prove it...


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on January 23, 2019, 02:43:19 AM
When I get that far I'll spend a lot of time studying everything I can find.

And you will have shrapnel (need to see the X-rays) to prove it...

I already have 46 pieces of metal in me... But they were put there intentionally.

Are you speaking from experience Monkey?


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: FJmonkey on January 23, 2019, 03:16:08 PM
No personal experience. I was just poking fun at your record for getting really involved in your fun/projects.

46.... Do I hear 47? 47 anyone?


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 23, 2019, 04:32:26 PM
Note to self: If running late for my flight, do not follow Dan thru airport TSA screening....


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on June 23, 2019, 10:43:08 PM
Hey Dan, time for an update!   Pictures are good, you get extra points for pictures.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: andyoutandabout on June 30, 2019, 08:31:21 PM
Thread bump.
News of the dream eagerly awaited


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: racerrad8 on June 30, 2019, 09:51:32 PM
Andy,  you need to call Dan and stop by to see the dream is person.

You are/were close.

Randy  - RPM


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on June 30, 2019, 10:03:22 PM
Just keep working 7am-7pm. Then go work on the house for a couple of hours. Go to bed get up and start all over again. Working lots of overtime trying to get caught back up after being off for 3 months for replacing my knees. and 90% of the time working by myself. Ok enough of the excuses.

Got all 10,332 sq ft of the drywall hung.( I take terrible pictures but here we go) upstairs living area is all 1/2 easy stuff even the 14 footers.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on June 30, 2019, 10:10:52 PM
Here's an attempt at mudding. Where I'm putting the chilled water fancoil for the air-conditioning.for the kitchen living room. Also the reason I decided I'm going to have to hire someone to do the mud. Just had 2 different outfits.look at it but neither have gotten back to me. 
The  two round Holes up high are intake and outlet for the cold climate e r v. Another outlet in the master bedroom and an intake in the bathroom..Has merv 13 filtration.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on June 30, 2019, 10:20:20 PM
Using automotive turbo elbows to hook up the erv.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on June 30, 2019, 10:25:36 PM
Downstairs drywall all 5/8 fire rated. 12 footers are kinda heavy lifting them up on the lift by myself. Had to have steel plates welded to the lift cause it was bending. Under the 12 footers.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on June 30, 2019, 10:30:24 PM
Descided to put the traps for the mini keg urinals in the walls. So it will be a cleaner hookup under the urinals. Pex for the tappers to flush the urinals above the kegs


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: ryanschoebel on July 01, 2019, 09:45:48 AM
Looking great!!


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 01, 2019, 11:40:33 AM
So much work so little time.


I put rockwool in all of the walls. Even in the interior walls. For soundproofing, insulation, and fire stop.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 01, 2019, 03:55:04 PM
12 on and 12 off and you still have time to hang 12’ x4’ sheets of 5/8” type X...by yourself.... you animal.

Yea, get some pros for the tape and mud. They can knock it out quickly. You going with a simple knock down or orange peel texture?
What’s the hole in the top of trap weir for? A trap primer?

Are you fully mobile, full range of motion with your new knees? Getting up and down the ladder without pain?

You are doing great Dan! I wish I lived closer to help you.   Pat


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 01, 2019, 10:40:45 PM
Don't feel much like an animal anymore. Feel like an old man these days. Was a time when I could do. Set of front lateral raises with a 145 lb dumbbell in each hand. But was pretty much all I could do to reach down and pick those sheets up off my steel toe and put them up on the lift.

Was thinking about going with the orange peel.

The hole is just where I got a little sloppy with the PVC primer. Does look like a hole though

Still doing therapy at work every day. Skipping my lunch  and going up to the fitness center. At 132 degrees of bend. Still swelling up and a lot of pain. Every where around the knees.  Butt not the knee's :yahoo:. Now my ankles, feet, lower back. I think it's because he took about a foot of space out from between my knees. And changed all the angles everything else was used to. Still alot of pain but. It's a thousand times better than before. I get so excited because I can tell. I'm going to be able to be a normal human being!!!!!!

I wish you were too. I would have been done along time ago. But can finally see the finish line...in the distance.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Millietant on July 02, 2019, 01:34:30 PM
Descided to put the traps for the mini keg urinals in the walls. So it will be a cleaner hookup under the urinals. Pex for the tappers to flush the urinals above the kegs

It could just be my eyes Dan, but in the picture it looks like you have an electrical switch/connector sitting underneath the urinal pipework ?

Am I just being a doofus (misunderstanding the pic), or blind, or is that something that's normal. I'd be worried about having water/effluent leak from the pipework onto the box - and you seem to amazingly knowledgeable & professional about all of the building stuff, so I'm guessing I'm wrong !


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 02, 2019, 03:03:31 PM
It’s ok to have a drain line over an electrical outlet box...however, having a trap inaccessible inside a wall can be a problem. Traps normally need to be accessible for disassembly and cleaning. If this trap served a sink, this would surely be the case, however, this trap is just serving fluids from a urinal, so accessibility for cleaning should not be an issue.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 02, 2019, 03:50:16 PM
Right on both counts Pat. Asked my inspector. And had no problem with it. But said to keep the picture to have proof of a trap. Alot of traps aren't exposed. Bathtubs, and inslab plumbing ect.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: andyoutandabout on July 02, 2019, 09:33:39 PM
Dan, I'm in Chicago. PM sent.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 03, 2019, 07:47:20 AM
Dan, I'm in Chicago. PM sent.
I'm working today 7-7. Then will be at the house at 19:15 I'm about 35min. North of Milwaukee. I'll be off work tomorrow. Possibly Friday. I will be there working on the house all day.


Title: Re: I have a Dream 2
Post by: giantkiller on July 16, 2019, 09:35:49 PM
Here's a picture of the ground loops hooked up in the garage. They didn't quite land in the 2x6 wall like they thought. But it'll work. The company that berried the loops. Came and hooked them up. To the lines I had run to the Geo unit under the stairs. Filled them with water and antifreeze. All part of the original $5000.