FJowners.com

General Category => Maintenance => Topic started by: Ryankhitt on October 17, 2017, 03:13:24 PM



Title: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: Ryankhitt on October 17, 2017, 03:13:24 PM
I'm new to the forum and I need help! I own a 87 fj1200 CA and I was having shifter issues. Took it apart and realized it was the thin torsion spring on the shift shaft. I straightened it out and ordered a shift shaft to install. Well... I called a dealership and asked if there was a torque setting for the six outside spring bolts. They told me there was (6-9 ft lbs)... Well I set it for 7 and went for it. Bottomed out the spring and broke the boss clutch inner hub. Thanks service department. So my question is... What (if any) torque setting for those bolts... And does anyone have a clutch boss inner hub. Thank you. Proud to be an fj owner. I love my bike please help!


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: Pat Conlon on October 17, 2017, 03:42:17 PM
Welcome, sorry to hear of your troubles. Where are you?
See the RPM banner at the top of the page? Give Randy or Robert a call.

Don't get me started on the competency of some dealers... We know RPM knows their stuff.

Cheers.  Pat


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: ribbert on October 17, 2017, 05:07:53 PM

.......... They told me there was (6-9 ft lbs)... Well I set it for 7 and went for it. Bottomed out the spring and broke the boss clutch inner hub...............


You might want to check the settings on your torque wrench. The value they told you sounds about right. 7 ft lbs isn't much and isn't going to break anything.

The reason for the low value is you are tightening against the spring pressure, not a thread. If you bottomed out the spring and continued to tighten it enough to break something, I would think it was way in excess of 7 ft lbs.

Check your wrench. (do you have a picture of it?)

Noel


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: racerrad8 on October 17, 2017, 06:13:17 PM
Anything I ever come across at 10 ft lb or less, I always convert to inch pounds.

The GYSM torque spec for the clutch spring bolt is 5.8 ft lbs.

That converts to 70 in lbs.

The other part is, especially on those bolts is tightening them down evenly around the circle. If you try and tighten/torque one at a time, it tips the opposite screw. While tightening the bolt it tensions the post to one side and they snap off.

Here is the clutch boss: Clutch Boss Hub (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=36Y-16371-00)

I have everything else required in stock as well. i.e. Clutch Cover Gasket (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Engine%3AClutchCoverGasket) & Clutch Hub Lock Washer (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=90215-25218).

While you are there, you can take the opportunity to upgrade to the RPM Roller Shift Detent Kit (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPMRollerShiftkit) for improved shifting or RPM Yamaha Clutch Pack (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMClutch).

Randy - RPM (http://www.rpmracingca.com)


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: red on October 17, 2017, 08:26:50 PM
About the care and feeding of torque wrenches:

1. RTFM.
2. Never store a torque wrench with any torque value set, unless the owners manual allows some low torque value setting during storage.
3. Torque wrenches can and should be checked (and maybe calibrated as linked below) on some regular basis.  YMMV, but either follow the manual recommendations or choose some reasonable and regular interval for checking the calibration.  If you find that the torque wrench is consistent but maybe 10% low across the board, you may choose to use the tool with a "cheat sheet" that converts your torque wrench settings into the actual torque values that the wrench produces.  Get the actual torque values at 10, 20, 30 et& foot-pound settings on the tool, and construct your "cheat sheet" accordingly.
4. Once you set a torque value into the wrench, put the socket drive in a vice or clamp and "click" the wrench several times to insure proper operation.  Then, if that works normally, apply the wrench to the job at hand.  The first "click" of the day on a torque wrench may not produce an accurate torque value.
5. Quick-n-dirty check: Set a torque value of 8 pounds, put the socket driver part in a vise or clamp, and use the clamp to suspend the wrench horizontally.  Hang a ten pound weight on the handle, one foot away from the socket driver, and the wrench should rotate downward slightly and click, showing that a torque value over eight foot-pounds has been applied.  Alternately, you can pull on the one-foot mark with a fish-scale to a value of ten pounds.  If that does not work, repair or replace the torque wrench, or make yourself a "cheat sheet.".
6. Computed check, with pix: https://www.wikihow.com/Calibrate-a-Torque-Wrench (https://www.wikihow.com/Calibrate-a-Torque-Wrench)

Others are welcome to chime in here . . .    :yes: 


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: ribbert on October 18, 2017, 07:35:14 AM

About the care and feeding of torque wrenches:......
........Others are welcome to chime in here . . .   
 


Red, that's a good write up on torque wrench calibration but the damage here is more in keeping with applying 70 ft/lbs not 7, a bit beyond the tool not being accurate in this case.

Ryan, as Randy said, low values like that cannot be accurately achieved with a ft/lb wrench, what you need is an in/lb wrench such as either of the ones below. Any local workshop or garage that does auto transmissions will have one, they might let you use it.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7492/27767121630_fd24850e31_z.jpg)

The correct tightening sequence for any radial fasteners is as you were taught (or should have been taught) to tighten wheel nuts (below) and always do it in stages. This will pull it down in the most even manner.

(http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0900c152/80/0c/29/90/medium/0900c152800c2990.gif)

Noel



Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: FJ1100mjk on October 18, 2017, 08:02:58 AM
Bought and used this one for years for those pesky M6 screws. Not only where the OP stripped his, but engine cover and cam cap screws too. Can be had for less than usual price with their coupons they offer. Good buy, and works well. Just remember to back off its spring tension after use, and before putting it back in its case.

Say what you want about Harbor Freight, but they have some good stuff for the shady tree mechanics. Read the interviews before buying.

Harbor Freight 1/4 Drive Inch Pound Torque Wrench (https://www.harborfreight.com/14-in-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-61277.html)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/10/1388_18_10_17_7_56_17.jpeg)


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: red on October 18, 2017, 08:23:48 AM
About the care and feeding of torque wrenches:......
........Others are welcome to chime in here . . .   
Red, that's a good write up on torque wrench calibration but the damage here is more in keeping with applying 70 ft/lbs not 7, a bit beyond the tool not being accurate in this case.
Ryan, as Randy said, low values like that cannot be accurately achieved with a ft/lb wrench, what you need is an in/lb wrench
Noel
Noel,

I agree.  I am curious: how would the user not know that they are applying more than ten pounds of force, one foot away from the fastener?  I can only guess that the torque wrench being used is very long and strong, which is more suitable for heavy trucks than an aluminum motorcycle.  Torque wrenches come in all sizes.  The torque values that you usually need should fall somewhere near the mid-range of the torque wrench being used.


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: ribbert on October 19, 2017, 06:06:27 AM

............  I am curious: how would the user not know that they are applying more than ten pounds of force, one foot away from the fastener? 


Easy, if a person has no hands on experience or even a grasp of the concept of torque values, it's just a number on the tool handle, the amount of force they then apply means nothing. They don't have a point of reference.

Noel


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: Ryankhitt on November 13, 2017, 05:06:33 PM
So I'm still figuring out this website and how to communicate with everyone. Thank you for all you responses. I was able to get it together and running amazing. Seriously love this bike. Thank you everyone! What I did was just used common sense and added a little torque with a basic wrench. Seeing how there are springs I knew I was doing it wrong and it was probably my error or bad metallic properties in the part. However while I have everyone here hahaha... I have leaky form seals. I know what the right thing to do is but I don't have the time/tools/knowledge to do it myself. I would love to take it into a shop but there isn't one for 100 miles. Can I just add oil as a bandaid and take it in asap? Thank you again, great group of people here.


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: FJmonkey on November 13, 2017, 05:17:13 PM
Ryan, Pat asked where you are located. He asked because we have members all over the world. Some even willing to help if you happen to be near them. Not all members are pinned on the map, it is not a requirement. But it shows some of the world presence of the Kookaloo machine known as the FJ.

https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=724879# (https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=724879#)


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: Ryankhitt on November 13, 2017, 05:41:45 PM
I am located in Klamath Falls OR. No FJ's... Just ninjas and R1 lol certainly not an 87 fj1200. To answer everyones curiosity... I have used torque wrenches before... On large diesel engines... Not on little ol' aluminium... The torque wrench I was using was old and had European measurements as well which I will admit was confusing. That and I'm inexperienced with the entire process. For never working on any motorcycle let alone 87 fj1200... I feel like I did pretty damn good? Thank you for everyone's advice and critique.


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: FJmonkey on November 13, 2017, 06:04:27 PM
Ok, so no one is real close. The good news is the FJ is an easy bike to maintain. Even some of things I thought were black magic stuff only dealers could do, I now do on my 2 FJs. As our bikes get older the dealers seem to have less mechanics born before the FJ. They are not likely to get trained on bikes this old, just the current stuff that comes in for service. That said, plan to invest in some good tools, some specific to the FJ/Yamaha but most are general use. A torque wrench used on large fasteners (big truck size) will be out of range for the smaller stuff on the bike. Even if the scale on the tool goes that low.

And welcome fellow ambulance rider.


Title: Re: Hey there everyone... I need help!
Post by: Rich Pleines on November 14, 2017, 05:53:09 AM
I have had great results with leaky fork seals using this. Worth a try. Available Ebay and and many other outlets including motorcycle dealerships,  Back in the day folks used Kodak film for the same result.

http://sealmate.net/ (http://sealmate.net/)

Rich