Hi all,
I noticed some weeping from my clutch master a ways back, so i bought a MC rebuild kit from Randy, and put it in. Once i did, the clutch wouldnt fully disengage, even after being taught a better way to bleed, by Randy. So, i also purchased a Slave rebuild kit, and put that in. Same issue. So, i tried something mentioned here (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15995.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15995.0)), because my lever had a lot of free play. I used 3-4 threads of an 8-32 bolt, and no change. I am getting no more air out of the system, everything except the internals of the clutch itself is new, and the bike was running and shifting great before i messed with it. I even took it some 150 miles in early November.
At this point I'm low on funds, VERY low on patience, and even lower on ideas. Any help would be much appreciated, as always.
Ryan
Quote from: ryanschoebel on December 02, 2017, 07:25:43 PM
I noticed some weeping from my clutch master a ways back, so i bought a MC rebuild kit from Randy, and put it in. Once i did, the clutch wouldnt fully disengage....
So Ryan, you did not have this problem before you rebuilt the m/c?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 02, 2017, 08:57:35 PM
So Ryan, you did not have this problem before you rebuilt the m/c?
No, I did not. I was trying to get a jump on it going out, because it was starting to weep fluid.
So then, do we agree that something went wrong with the m/c rebuild?
Logically, that makes sense. Physically, I've checked the rebuild by a diagram 4 times, and see no issues in the order, as well as following tips on here,and from Randy.
The lever pressure also feels very good, even better than before, and there is no longer weeping. It does disengage, just not all the way. It feels like it is 90 percent there, it's just not quite enough
Ok, please forgive me, so I'm clear, when you say the clutch does not disengage, do you mean that when in gear, normally when you squeeze the lever the clutch plates spread and you can roll the bike....except now you squeeze the lever and the bike won't roll....or roll stiffly?
Quote from: ryanschoebel on December 02, 2017, 10:10:49 PM
It does disengage, just not all the way. It feels like it is 90 percent there, it's just not quite enough
Hi Ryan
I have noticed your signature so I'll ask A dumb question,
Are you basing this information while bike is on centre stand and in gear?
Cheers Alan
Ryan please post up a photo of your clutch handle where it mounts to the m/c.
Since you have a 86+ m/c I want to verify you have the correct handle in place.
Randy - RPM
Pat, yeah, it rolls stiffly. Alan, this is both. I have tried rolling it on the ground, and rolling the wheel on the centerstand. Same effect either way . On the centerstand, with the bike in gear, and the clutch pulled in, the rear wheel rolls slowly. Randy, i will email you, because I do not know how to post pictures here.
Thanks all
Quote from: ryanschoebel on December 03, 2017, 08:55:48 AM
On the centerstand, with the bike in gear, and the clutch pulled in, the rear wheel rolls slowly.
Rolls slowly? Can you stop it from rolling with some friction from your foot? Sounds like friction from cold oil. Both my '86 and '89 does this when starting from cold. Once warm the rear wheel does not turn.
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 03, 2017, 09:22:19 AM
Rolls slowly? Can you stop it from rolling with some friction from your foot? Sounds like friction from cold oil. Both my '86 and '89 does this when starting from cold. Once warm the rear wheel does not turn.
I'll try warming it today. When I did it on the center stand, I did warm it up using the choke, but I'm sure it wasn't all the way warm or anything. I didn't try stopping it.
Quote from: ryanschoebel on December 03, 2017, 08:55:48 AM
I do not know how to post pictures here.
Thanks all
How to Post Pictures Here (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=341.0)
I use the Gallery method, since some picture hosting sites no longer work here.
Remember that the FJ is an air cooled engine, idle for too long and you can over heat the engine. I monitor the oil temp at the oil filter by hand. Once I can feel the heat I either shut it down or set up a fan. I am sure it is safe to run longer but my normal purpose is to flow enough fuel to keep the jets from clogging. I don't get to ride as much as I want and this crappy gas will punish you for it.
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 03, 2017, 10:02:09 AMI am sure it is safe to run longer but my normal purpose is to flow enough fuel to keep the jets from clogging. I don't get to ride as much as I want and this crappy gas will punish you for it.
FJmonkey,
Have you tried using non-ethanol (real) gasoline? Costs more, yes, but not likely to cause fuel problems.
https://www.pure-gas.org/ (https://www.pure-gas.org/)
.
Red, nothing close to me. But I can get race gas, $$$ great for storage. Thread jack over...
Thread jack away. So long as I find my answer, I don't really care what's talked about
In my parts bin, I have a working low mileage '92 m/c I can send you...how about that?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 03, 2017, 01:26:59 PM
In my parts bin, I have a working low mileage '92 m/c I can send you...how about that?
I want to say yes, but I'm hesitant to do it, find out it's something else, and have you be out the part. If I can narrow it down to the m/c, I'll gladly take you up on it.
Sorry, I have a front brake m/c...not clutch m/c. I do know where the clutch m/c went (Paul Lawson) so if you need it....I'll give him a shout.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 03, 2017, 02:02:33 PM
Sorry, I have a front brake m/c...not clutch m/c. I do know where the clutch m/c went (Paul Lawson) so if you need it....I'll give him a shout.
Hey Pat, not a problem. I did what Monkey said, and warmed it up,and it's not having the problem anymore. It does jerk a bit when I shift into first (on the center stand) but then the wheel stops after a second. I'm gonna take it for a quick ride,and see what happens. I suspect that jerk may simply be a loose bolt at the slave.
Well, ok then... :good2:
Ride Well and Report back...
That jerk is the pimple faced kid at the parts counter that said you ordered the wrong part, it was not his mistake you ordered a Vespa part. :rofl:
The FJ transmission tends to have a harsher transition than others when going from neutral to first. Get yourself to a rally and ride with other FJs. Imagine, all stopped at a light and sitting in neutral when it looks like the light is about to turn green. Thunk, Thunk, Thunk etc... Most of us know this as a fundamental truth and like many of the other noises our FJs make, we consider it part of the song it sings to us. The clunk/jerk will be less pronounced when all is warmed up. You really don't need to be in gear till the choke is off anyway.
Make sure you have your idle set to a proper 1100/1200 RPM, a faster idle will make the clunk harsher than it needs to be.
Oil viscosity plays a part. It also affects the starter clutch when things are cold. I know Phoenix is high desert and can drop to freezing some nights. So while I am on this train of thought here is another issue you might experience. You hit the start button and the starter either fails to engage (just spins fast) or starts to spin the engine then slips and spins freely. WTF? So you start it again with similar results, till if finally catches and fires up. This caught me off guard during a rally farther North than my normal temperatures. Randy was in attendance and set me straight on what was causing my starting issues. So file this away for later.
Looking forward to hear how your test ride went.
The test ride went great. The clutch felt more responsive than ever, and shifted wonderfully. A few times, my idle didn't come down like I expected it to when I pulled in the clutch, but I'll chock that down to the bike not having been ridden in a month. I'll put some sea foam in, and fill it up.
Thanks for the help all. Now I just need to fix that stripped bolt on the slave, and all will be well.
Great news, you can ride again. :good2:
Quote from: FJmonkey on December 03, 2017, 05:34:48 PM
Great news, you can ride again. :good2:
No one is happier than me haha. I guess all it took was a month of failing, and I'm still not sure what peice fixed it. But a little advice from the guru's, and a little courage, and it works great! Big thanks to you Monkey,for all the help and advice, as well as Pat and Randy for all the help they gave me. Another big thanks to Randy in particular, for helping me choose what parts I needed, and helping me with all of my rediculous questions, about anything and everything involved.
Much appreciated,
Ryan
Quote from: ryanschoebel on December 03, 2017, 06:14:40 PMNo one is happier than me haha. Much appreciated,
Ryan
Ryan,
Many times, that big "clunk" into first gear happens because the oil is still cold and thick. The clutch plates can be stuck together then. Try this: Start the bike normally, and give it a moment running, to warm up everything. Pull the clutch lever, hold it in, and rev the engine gently. Let the engine idle, then rev it again once or twice. Still holding in the clutch lever in, select first gear. I am betting the "clunk" will be very minor then, maybe just a "click."
Revving the engine with the clutch disengaged causes (allows) the cold clutch plates to separate, and then the gears should just click together. That trick is 'way better than using the gears to separate the clutch plates by force. Any bike with a multi-plate clutch can have the cold-clunk-into-gear problem, and the fix may be just this simple for most of them.
.
Quote from: red on December 03, 2017, 09:25:25 PM
Quote from: ryanschoebel on December 03, 2017, 06:14:40 PMNo one is happier than me haha. Much appreciated,
Ryan
Ryan,
Many times, that big "clunk" into first gear happens because the oil is still cold and thick. The clutch plates can be stuck together then. Try this: Start the bike normally, and give it a moment running, to warm up everything. Pull the clutch lever, hold it in, and rev the engine gently. Let the engine idle, then rev it again once or twice. Still holding in the clutch lever in, select first gear. I am betting the "clunk" will be very minor then, maybe just a "click."
.
Red,
I wasn't too concerned about it, considering I had it on the center stand at the time. I figured that was the case, and it's always clucked just a bit. It didn't feel or sound any different on my test ride today. Great bit of advice though, I will definitely keep it in mind! Thanks!
Also, to ensure you are getting full disengagement, you need to look at the brass bushing in the clutch lever. They wear on both on the outside surface area and where the plunger goes into the brass bushing.
Here is a post about this very issue: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15382.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=15382.0)
Randy - RPM
Hi All
At the risk of Hijacking this thread, just some advice please about the "Clunk". I reacently noted some excessive clutch slippage when doing "spirted" overtaking and dropping from 5th back to 4th. I have orded a new set of clutch fibres to be installed (waiting on a new gasket). But i have noticed since the slippage that I am now getting a serious clunk changing through all gears, and even a bit of "grinding" occaisionally. Is this directly related to my clutch wear? The leaver still feels good, and no leakage.
Ta
Mark
Sorry for the hijack.
Quote from: Urban_Legend on December 06, 2017, 07:58:46 PM
Sorry for the hijack.
Hijack away, I have found my answers.
Ryan