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General Category => FJ Project Writeups => Topic started by: Indiana jones on November 22, 2018, 06:36:40 PM



Title: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on November 22, 2018, 06:36:40 PM
So, tomorrow I shall be a step closer to my original goal,set many moons ago.
An Fj engined, F1 framed 1980s race bike.
Deposit shall be paid in the morning.
Frame as raced by Colin Edwards and Jake Zemke at the Phillip island classic earlier this year.
Josh Hayes will be riding one in January too.
I will be accepting delivery early in the new year.
A strong,fast reliable engine will be the hard part.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18GC32P6QOmnXp_F0fPVVy-vhuoK43JhC/view?usp=drivesdk (https://drive.google.com/file/d/18GC32P6QOmnXp_F0fPVVy-vhuoK43JhC/view?usp=drivesdk)
Trying to share a photo here....not working.
Its in my gallery.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: ZOA NOM on November 23, 2018, 09:21:41 AM
Fixed it for you... that thing looks NASTY! Love it!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/W0XwT1ls7uVDtwXqp_Oaq5mPrSvsT_QQfybbnbOsO2gQtP9FdB85ECpXTSQVqkbhCzkayIxji81MIBfm58AR=w1629-h885-rw)


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Tuned forks on November 23, 2018, 10:18:52 AM
Wow  :shok:  Awesome bodywork.

Thanks Rick.

Joe


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Pat Conlon on November 23, 2018, 11:43:19 AM
Very cool Jonesy! Keep the pictures coming. I wonder how much fuel the tank holds?
I wonder how hard it would be to hang some lights on it to get it street legal?
I wonder why they stayed with conventional forks on the front end? Class rules?
So many questions....

I've always lusted after a Spondon framed FJ.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on November 23, 2018, 05:58:45 PM
No clue how big the tank is.
Maximum fork size is 43mm conventional.
It could be put on the road here in Ireland pretty easily.
Same as I did with my bobber.
Donor frame and vin plate, but this will be purely a race bike.
My plan is to offer my services to the Irish team competing on the Phillip Island classic races, if the Irish team ever get it together again.
Apart from that, I can think of nothing better than loading a bike like that into my van and heading off to a sunny race someplace in mainland Europe.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: PaulG on November 25, 2018, 08:35:12 PM
On a side note I wonder if NCR would make a titanium frame for an FJ like they do for the Ducatis? :scratch_one-s_head:

https://amsducati.com/ncr-ducati-848-1098-1198-titanium-frame (https://amsducati.com/ncr-ducati-848-1098-1198-titanium-frame)

https://www.cycleworld.com/ncr-ducati-titanium-parts-custom-motorcycles (https://www.cycleworld.com/ncr-ducati-titanium-parts-custom-motorcycles)

If we started a Go Fund Me drive, then have a lottery for forum members, maybe some lucky dog could catch one.  A one-off would probably be in the $20K USD range.  :shok:  In my dreams... :biggrin:

Keep the updates coming esp when you get it on the track. :good2:


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on February 10, 2019, 03:27:37 PM
Stage one Yoshi cams


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on February 10, 2019, 03:29:20 PM
Lightened crank with fluted oil ways.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on February 10, 2019, 03:31:06 PM
On its way!!


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Urban_Legend on February 10, 2019, 07:26:00 PM
looking good.

At last months Phillip Island Classic, 4 FJ's with F1 frames placed in the top 10 of their class.

Keep the enthusiasm,

Mark


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on February 11, 2019, 12:58:51 PM
Yep, this chassis as ridden by Josh Hayes to the win in race 4.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Troyskie on February 14, 2019, 03:07:53 AM
Whoa!!!  (popcorn)


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on February 17, 2019, 12:14:54 PM
On the lookout for a free flowing, sprung exhaust system now.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on March 05, 2019, 04:11:21 PM
It has landed


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: fj1289 on March 08, 2019, 11:13:57 PM
On the lookout for a free flowing, sprung exhaust system now.

That’s funny!   I’d assume it would have to be custom fabricated ... stainless?  Or TITANIUM!!


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: aviationfred on March 08, 2019, 11:59:11 PM
On the lookout for a free flowing, sprung exhaust system now.



The RPM exhaust to my knowledge is a free flow exhaust. Extremely light weight and his held together by springs.

http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPMHeader (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPMHeader)


Fred


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on March 09, 2019, 03:05:46 AM
On the lookout for a free flowing, sprung exhaust system now.

That’s funny!   I’d assume it would have to be custom fabricated ... stainless?  Or TITANIUM!!
A nice XJR system might need the link pipe modified a small bit at most.
For that reason, stainless would be preferred.
The engine is still the same. 


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Pat Conlon on March 12, 2019, 07:42:46 PM
I enjoy Kevin Cameron’s articles:
https://www.cycleworld.com/exhaust-pipe-retaining-springs-50-ways-to-get-it-wrong (https://www.cycleworld.com/exhaust-pipe-retaining-springs-50-ways-to-get-it-wrong)
I remember breaking springs in the old days before swivel hooks.

Only Kevin could make exhaust pipe springs interesting.

Fred, does the RPM system use swivel springs?
(https://www.procircuit.com/content/image/37282/300/swivel-pipe-springs-800x800.jpg)


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: racerrad8 on March 13, 2019, 06:08:20 AM
Fred, does the RPM system use swivel springs?
(https://www.procircuit.com/content/image/37282/300/swivel-pipe-springs-800x800.jpg)

Nope. The springs do have the rubber sleeve,but no swiveling ends.

So after many hundreds of thousands of miles ridden on the RPM header system I have never heard of any broken springs.

Randy - RPM


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on March 17, 2019, 05:25:32 AM
On the lookout for a free flowing, sprung exhaust system now.



The RPM exhaust to my knowledge is a free flow exhaust. Extremely light weight and his held together by springs.

[url]http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPMHeader[/url] ([url]http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPMHeader[/url])


Fred

I will have to try source something in Europe.
Shipping and tax makes everything overly expensive from North America.
My budget is screwed after buying the frame.

When it is all added up,it wouldn't have been much more expensive to buy a Harris F1 frame.
But I don't see the advantage of the old school, brass welded Harris frame ,apart from it being period correct,and more desireable.
Sure, more flexibility was required back in the 80s with the tyre and suspension tech that was available.
Also, the likes of the TT circuit was a lot bumpier back then,as were most circuits,I would imagine.

I'm looking at a set of Moto Martin headers on Fleabay with a flat 4 into 1 collector box with a 57mm outlet.
Granted a 4-2-1 set up would be better.



Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on March 21, 2019, 05:39:15 PM
Boom. Stainless,sprung Akrapovic 4-2-1.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: JMR on March 22, 2019, 08:51:11 AM
 That's a good pipe.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Pat Conlon on March 22, 2019, 11:05:59 AM
I've always wondered for racing purposes....On a 4-2-1 system, if the engine firing order is 1-2-4-3, for proper merge design and scavenging shouldn't the #1 and #4 primaries be connected together and the #2 and #3 be connected?
....it would mean the #1 pipe would have an uneven length in order to cross over #2/3 to connect to #4, or vice-versa, so I suspect that it's more important to have equal length primary pipes vs merge design based of firing order.

All this stuff must have been figured out on a dyno.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on April 02, 2019, 01:44:07 AM
Most of the TT spec and Phillip Island bikes have a 4into 1 config, obviously the preferred set up when the budget is there. I'll have to settle for the poor mans choice.
I have located Nova close ratio gears for the standard tranny.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on April 09, 2019, 11:22:00 AM
Hanging up there nicely


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: giantkiller on April 09, 2019, 12:22:39 PM
Wow!!! Fj porn!


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on April 15, 2019, 05:00:28 PM
An 11000 mile xjr1300 engine is now going to be the basis for my race engine build.
I'll get it in the frame,as is, while I'm getting a head done.
I can get it wired and running.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: fj1289 on April 16, 2019, 12:15:42 PM
Awesome progress!  Can’t wait to see/hear the finished bike used in anger!


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Pat Conlon on April 16, 2019, 05:35:22 PM
I’ve been told that a lot of the race car guys sleeve the XJR cylinder blocks for durability. It seems that with the XJR’s  oem Niksil plated aluminum bore trends to oval under hard use.

What are your plans for your engine?


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on April 18, 2019, 06:15:45 PM
I've been chatting to Roger Winfield about the best pistons, etc.
His super reliable motors run std xjr13 pistons in std bores with zero problems. Any engine failures have been attributed to pushing things a little bit too far in the revs.
I'm pretty sure he's run an engine for 2 seasons and a precautionary strip revealed minimal wear.
I'll be hoping to get around the 140hp mark with head work,full system, stage 1 Yoshi cams, Mikuni 38 flats and a Dyna ignition.
I have a beautiful lightened crank but I think this will have an adverse effect on power delivery.
I have some Nova close ratio gears to help close up the gaps between gears.
I'll be using a Barnett spring conversion till I can afford a Sigma slipper unit of work out how to convert a zx10r clutch, apparently super reliable and smooth.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on April 27, 2019, 12:35:49 AM
Ignition, tranny and clutch.
Motor in this weekend, hopefully.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: JMR on April 27, 2019, 08:50:35 AM
I've been chatting to Roger Winfield about the best pistons, etc.
His super reliable motors run std xjr13 pistons in std bores with zero problems. Any engine failures have been attributed to pushing things a little bit too far in the revs.
I'm pretty sure he's run an engine for 2 seasons and a precautionary strip revealed minimal wear.
I'll be hoping to get around the 140hp mark with head work,full system, stage 1 Yoshi cams, Mikuni 38 flats and a Dyna ignition.
I have a beautiful lightened crank but I think this will have an adverse effect on power delivery.
I have some Nova close ratio gears to help close up the gaps between gears.
I'll be using a Barnett spring conversion till I can afford a Sigma slipper unit of work out how to convert a zx10r clutch, apparently super reliable and smooth.

You should get 140 HP without much hassle. I had 130 RWHP with a stock 87 FJ1200 engine that had Yosh Stage 1 cams, RS-38's and a Hindle 4-1 pipe. I set lobe center at 105 both intake and exhaust. I set the lobe centers at running lash....forget trying to get zero lash. Just subtract the lash from your opening #s. i.e. at zero lash intake suppose to open at 20 degrees BTDC. With .005" of lash the intake will open at 15 degrees BTDC.
 And I agree....forget the lightened crank....I could go on about it but I won't.
 The spring conversion kit is OK...I use 3 stiff and 3 lighter springs I sourced through Barnett. Clutch pull very reasonable but it holds 160 RWHP.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on April 29, 2019, 04:33:25 PM
Xjr1300 engine just to get up and running.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: racerrad8 on April 29, 2019, 06:08:33 PM
I have some Nova close ratio gears to help close up the gaps between gears.

Interesting, can you offer the new tooth count for the gearing?

That might be something to look into for the future.

Randy - RPM


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: andyoutandabout on April 29, 2019, 09:13:33 PM
Here’s something everybody can enjoy.
So far, there’s nothing I don’t like about this project.
Reminds me of a Harris special or those super saucy moto Martin kits they made in very limited numbers for the cbx sixers. Or even, dare I say it, the bimoto yb whatever it was.
Good luck with the build


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on April 30, 2019, 05:33:04 PM
I have some Nova close ratio gears to help close up the gaps between gears.

Interesting, can you offer the new tooth count for the gearing?

That might be something to look into for the future.

Randy - RPM

Not sure how big a difference there will be.
Apparently the teeth are "stretched " to achieve the ratio change.




Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Tuned forks on April 30, 2019, 06:36:35 PM
No wonder we are trying to shift into 6th gear.  5th gear is not a 1 to 1 ratio.

Joe


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on May 01, 2019, 03:42:25 PM
I'm failing miserably to get 2nd gear off the input shaft to get 5th off.
Its pressed on and the bushing on 5 needs replacing.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: JMR on May 02, 2019, 06:55:08 PM
I'm failing miserably to get 2nd gear off the input shaft to get 5th off.
Its pressed on and the bushing on 5 needs replacing.
You using heat?


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on May 16, 2019, 12:49:20 AM
Yes, I am.
Haven't reddened it yet.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on May 16, 2019, 12:52:33 AM
Coils mounted and wired.
Carbs(Rs38 Mikuni) plumbed and q/a throttle hooked up.
Almost ready for a start!


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: jscgdunn on May 16, 2019, 03:05:05 PM
Very cool project.....soon to be new winner of "Most Modified" :pardon:


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: Indiana jones on May 27, 2019, 02:43:37 AM
Build currently stalled due to Isle of Man mechanic duties.


Title: Re: CMR racing products F1 frame
Post by: fj1289 on May 28, 2019, 06:10:53 AM
As it should be!  :drinks: