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General Category => Modifications => Topic started by: Cbraun on May 10, 2019, 08:57:38 AM



Title: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Cbraun on May 10, 2019, 08:57:38 AM
I know this has been a topic in here before but I'm looking at a complete set of r6 throttlebodys on eBay for under $50. I know i can make my own parts to attach them to the bike, but can i run a Microsquirt ecu to run the system and can i use the factory pickups on the crank for timing? I have pod filters on the carbs now and can remove the air box which would give me room for a 40 PSI fuel pump and a filter without having to remove the original petcock, and still have room for a catch can behind the side fairing.
This is on an fj600


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 10, 2019, 10:34:29 AM
No.
The oem pickups are not comparable with the Microsquirt ECU.
Contact the Microsquirt folks, they will give you the specs on what they need.
IIRC they need something like a 36 tooth trigger wheel for proper resolution.

This is a question for Randy and Chris.


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Cbraun on May 10, 2019, 03:20:16 PM
Ok, I wasn't sure about the pickups, thanks


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 10, 2019, 08:42:25 PM
Chris, standby, I put a ping into another Chris (fj1289) for specifics.
Chris is currently running a FI system on his race bike

We’ll get an answer for you.


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: racerrad8 on May 10, 2019, 09:40:50 PM
I believe,  working from memory, we used a 32-2 rotor with the car pickup coil.

Not familiar with the 600 pick up coil design,  so I can't comment on if they will work or not.

Randy - RPM


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: fj1289 on May 10, 2019, 10:03:08 PM
Hi Chris

There’s a few ways to skin the cat if you are willing to take the DIY route.   

The “best” pickup arrangement is the rotor and pick ups off the fuel injected XJR.  Pretty sure Randy (RPMracingca.com — the banner at the top!) can source those for you.  This will allow you to control ignition as well as fuel.  *** Don’t forget the XJR gasket for the pickup cover - it is thicker and helps keep the pickup from shorting out on the cover! ***

Another possibility is a “fuel only” install while using the stock (or even a Dyna) ignition.  I think with this you actually use the coil (-) as the rpm source for the ECU.   What do you lose by going this way?  Maybe a lot less than you would first think.   Without extensive dyno time with a very skilled tuner, you’re not likely to find much in the way of gains over the stock curves advanced a few degrees.   If your going turbo or nitrous, then you NEED full ignition control. 


Now to share a few lessons learned the HARD way:   :flag_of_truce:
1. You NEED a sump of some sort to ensure constant uninterrupted fuel supply to the fuel pump.  Without one, anything less than maybe 2/3 of a tank of fuel and you can cavitate the pump.   It will take you weeks to months to figure this out.  And you’ll destroy a pump or two or three in the process.  Carbs have float bowls which serve this purpose.   If you don’t want to fit a sump, you’ll need to sort out an in-tank pump and baffle system. 
2.  I first used a Kawasaki trigger wheel modified to fit - also had to move the stock pickup far enough outboard to have to require notching the cover - fine for racing, not so great for all weather riding.  Although the 24-1 arrangement “worked” - it started much quicker and more reliably after removing a second tooth for a 24-2 arrangement.  The XJR fuel injection wheel is 24-2 - seems Yamaha understands the needs of these engines pretty well!
3.  If you go with LSx coils - DO NOT over dwell them.   They will discharge early to ensure the coils are not damaged from over heating - and will instead detonate and destroy a big valve race ported head and cams (exhaust cam specifically).   There is still some old info on the net about what is a safe dwell setting - make sure to get the latest info!  Don’t know if other commonly used coils suffer this issue or not. 
4.  Your wide band O2 sensor installation and integration is critical for tuning if you aren’t going to spend a LOT of time on the dyno (with a very knowledgeable tuner).  Sensor grounds, proper power supply, and condition are critical to ensure the O2 sensor doesn’t take your reasonably well sorted tune and turn it into an unrideable wreck in short order. 

Good luck!   :drinks:   The micro squirt is a very capable system I think it is better sorted than the Gen 3 mega squirt lineup — I think they have tried to do way too much and add way too many bells and whistles too quickly and all the functions don’t interact seamlessly - critical if you start pushing things hard! 




Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: fj1289 on May 10, 2019, 10:07:01 PM
Just noticed this is for a 600!

Not sure on the details on the pickup.   Can you post pics of the 600 pickup and dimensions of the trigger wheel?  Then may can see what will or won’t work. 

All the rest of the advice will apply though!


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 10, 2019, 10:17:02 PM
Nothing like getting the right stuff from the experts!


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Cbraun on May 11, 2019, 09:54:03 AM
Thanks everyone ill get pics and measurements in a minute.


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Cbraun on May 11, 2019, 10:05:00 AM
Here are pics of the pickups i tried to get some decent measurements 


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Cbraun on May 11, 2019, 11:58:00 AM
the goal is to make a new 4 into 1 stainless header for it too. I cant find one so i'm going to make one. It wont be hard to install some 02 bungs on it. I might make a 4 into 2 to keep it more original but i thing a 4 into 1 will make things a little easier


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 11, 2019, 12:44:19 PM
Keep in mind access to the oil drain plug. It sucks to have to remove your header to get access.
That's why we like the 4-2-1 design on our 1100/1200's.


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Tuned forks on May 11, 2019, 01:04:02 PM
Amen to that Pat.  The former system on my rig had to be removed for oil change.  I only did that once before buying the RPM system.

Joe


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: JPaganel on May 11, 2019, 11:55:16 PM
No.
The oem pickups are not comparable with the Microsquirt ECU.
Contact the Microsquirt folks, they will give you the specs on what they need.
IIRC they need something like a 36 tooth trigger wheel for proper resolution.

This is a question for Randy and Chris.

I actually did contact them about that, although not for the 600, but for the 1200. They said the pickup should work so long as I use the correct trigger wheel.


Title: Re: FJ Fuel injection swap
Post by: Little Pink Steve on June 10, 2019, 01:55:04 AM
Looking forward to someone cracking this, I want EFI for my project, but I’m not in a position to do anything about it yet.