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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: aviationfred on August 04, 2019, 10:47:03 AM



Title: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: aviationfred on August 04, 2019, 10:47:03 AM
My daughter and I went to the monthly Cassoday Bike Run this morning. We saw one bike that I have never seen before, another is the first time that I have seen in the wild. We also met and spent some time with 2 Iron Butt Rally finishers. One was an 8th place finisher and the other was a 17th place finisher.
I have never seen a Moto Guzzi Quota before and I have seen Kawasaki H2's in the dealerships, but never out on the road.

For those that are not familiar with the Iron Butt Association and their certified Mileage rides. The Iron Butt Rally is an Annual Rally that is 11 days and a minimum of 11,000 miles to be a finisher. My IBA number is 5 digits. The significance of both of the license plates are, as a IBA Rally finisher, you are given a 3 digit IBA number. I did get permission from both riders for the photos of their license plates.
Both of the Iron Butt Rally finishers have gone to the Dark Side for rear tires.


Fred


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Mike Ramos on August 06, 2019, 01:09:17 PM
Howdy Fred!

Not sure why the need to run car tires...  Seems as if it cancels out any type of spirited/sport riding.  True cross country is just that; a good mix of secondary roads and the "taking the old highway" riding.

Recently changed out a set of Road 5's at 15,512 miles with perhaps more miles to go (switched to the R/S for summer) so it would seem as if the Road 5's would go the distance of the IBA Rally with miles to spare without sacrificing the safety/performance part of the equation. 

I encountered a minimum of rain so I do not know if Road 5's perform as well as the PR 4's in poor weather.  However from the high desert nighttime cold to sport riding in quite hot weather, I did run across plenty of opportunities to experience the sport side of the tires (including a FJ Rally) and they are very capable sport tires.

Ride safe,

Midget   


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Pat Conlon on August 06, 2019, 03:23:11 PM
Holy smokes Mike! :good:

Imagine 15k on a set of tires. On a FJ no less....Isn’t technology wonderful?
I’m currently at 5k on my Pilot Road 5’s and I have no clue when I’ll need to replace them.

Do you guys remember when our rear tires would last only 3k? It doesn’t seem like that long ago.


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Tuned forks on August 06, 2019, 08:56:52 PM
How long did the old bias ply tires last Pat?  I'm referring to tires of the seventies and beyond.

Joe


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: T Legg on August 06, 2019, 09:45:39 PM
I still run old fashion bias ply tires Joe,sport demons.My tires are completely bald by 3000 miles.I have been through several sets and they are pretty consistent.They handle very well even when nearly worn out though.That probably makes them the most expensive tires you can buy for your FJ.


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Pat Conlon on August 06, 2019, 09:50:59 PM
Hey Joe, just to echo what Travis said ^^

My last set of Michelin Pilot Road 4’s (180/55) I got ~8400 miles out of the back tire. I thought that was incredible, but now our midnight road warrior gets 15.5k out of the new Road 5’s? That’s crazy...

....but not as crazy as running a car tire on your motorcycle.


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: FJmonkey on August 06, 2019, 10:10:37 PM
Has anyone figured out the cost per mile you are getting for your tires? factor in the cost of mount and balance (and removal from bike) if you pay others to perform it. I just paid $176.68 for a set of Conti Motions. If I replace both as a set after 4000 miles my cost is $.044 per mile. I do my own mount and balance so I have a cost advantage.  I am curious how the more costly but higher mileage tires factor. One advantage of the higher mile tire is less down time spent having to changing them. 


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: aviationfred on August 06, 2019, 10:22:45 PM
I have been able to do 8000 miles each on the two sets of Dunlop Roadsmart II tires. I have just purchased a set of the Metzeler RoadTec 01 tires. These are suppose to rival the Michelin PR4 for mileage and claim to be better in the rain. If I get 10,000 miles or better, I will be happy.




Fred


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: T Legg on August 06, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
The labor is probably more significant than the money .I put my own tires on also or I wouldn't be able to afford to ride.Ive changed tires three times since just before the last RPM rally and I can see these tires won't make it to the next one .Also put a set on the new fj and now my Honda's tires are worn out.Sport Demons work out to.093 cents per mile if you consider mounting and balancing free.


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Pat Conlon on August 07, 2019, 01:19:24 AM
My previous back tire a PR4 lasted 8400 miles and cost me $208 plus $25 for mount and balance For 2.8 cents per mile. ($0.0277)
My current Road 5 back tire cost slightly less than the old Road 4 @ $204 plus $25 mount and balance...
Now if I get 15k miles out this tire like Mike did, that puts me at 1.5 cents per mile ($0.0152)

I dismount my wheels and take them down to my local shop. They charge me $25 per tire for mount and balance. $5 of that $25 is the shop cost to recycle my old tire.


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Dieselman7.3 on August 07, 2019, 04:43:25 AM
How well are these tires that last 8-10k miles good in the rain/wet roads.  Seams to me to be able to get the mileage they have to be a harder compound giving up traction in corners and wet roads? I’m currently running a Bridgestone exerda max bias ply on the rear (price was good and the speed rating was well above the Fjs requirement). Doesn’t seem to bad in the rain and cornering is pretty good I have about 1k miles on them and the seam to be wearing good


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: aviationfred on August 07, 2019, 06:40:09 AM
How well are these tires that last 8-10k miles good in the rain/wet roads.  Seams to me to be able to get the mileage they have to be a harder compound giving up traction in corners and wet roads?

The answer to the 1st part is... Pretty much ALL of the Sport Touring Radial tires do very well in the rain and on wet roads. These tires are required to do 3 things very well. Grip well at full lean angles at almost track day cornering speeds, give very long mileage for the long distance rider and because Sport Touring riders often ride many miles just to get to the twisty roads, getting caught in the rain is often the case, the tires need to have exceptional rain/wet road capabilities.

The answer to the 2nd part is... these tires are Dual Compound. Typically a harder, silica infused rubber in the center and softer rubber on the edges.

Here are a couple of videos on Sport Touring tires.

https://youtu.be/w1leVfe5EGg

https://youtu.be/DBREB9bzv_Y

https://youtu.be/Y88EbYGJhEg

https://youtu.be/Kw8EpgcBGGg

https://youtu.be/ZU9IwGgZh1Y

As an added note... all of these tires are Radials and specifically for 17" front and 17" rear. The one exception is the Avon, they do offer a 150/80/16 rear

Fred



Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Dieselman7.3 on August 07, 2019, 07:37:58 AM
Thank you. I know I need to change to 17s there isn’t a whole lot out there for 16s.
What wheel is direct bolt on for the rear?  Planning on doing 89 forks and 17x3.5 front wheel this winter.


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: aviationfred on August 07, 2019, 08:21:20 AM
Thank you. I know I need to change to 17s there isn’t a whole lot out there for 16s.
What wheel is direct bolt on for the rear?  Planning on doing 89 forks and 17x3.5 front wheel this winter.


Click on the pdf file in the first post

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0)

The following link shows what years will work.


http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2465.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2465.0)


Fred


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: ribbert on August 07, 2019, 08:25:07 AM
How well are these tires that last 8-10k miles good in the rain/wet roads.  Seams to me to be able to get the mileage they have to be a harder compound giving up traction in corners and wet roads? I’m currently running a Bridgestone exerda max bias ply on the rear (price was good and the speed rating was well above the Fjs requirement). Doesn’t seem to bad in the rain and cornering is pretty good I have about 1k miles on them and the seam to be wearing good

Dieselman, only a very few short years ago you would have been right. The grip from the tyres delivering these phenomenal mileages is amazing, they have all but killed off the track day tyre market.
 
At 6k in second gear coming out of a corner with all the hard bits scraping, I can snap the throttle wide open and it's like a slingshot, just grips and goes, no hint of breaking loose. You can't get close to out leaning good tyres on an FJ. Even with the centre stand and belly pan removed, raised rear end, RPM shocker and toes tucked as inboard and as far back as possible on the pegs, there is plenty of reserve grip. I even find my boots clipping the road in the wet.

Cost does not come into consideration with tyres for me. If I can't afford what i want, it stays in the garage, and that has happened.
These have been my favourites for the last few sets, Metzeler 01's.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48480165532_c740b7d4a4_b.jpg)

I bought a set of RP4's without my usual research and didn't like them. Problem then was, I couldn't wear the bastards out!  Michelin shook my confidence in their tyres with those and it will take a glowing recommendation from a couple of trusted riders before I'll go anywhere near the 5's. Having just re shod everything though, it might be a while.

If anyone can suggest a seriously water proof boot with steel sliders, I would appreciate some recommendations, I have been unable to find any in Oz. I bought these (and others), with plastic sliders and a bag of spares but being plastic they're gone in less than a day. This is not from "dragging' but rather striking. The instant my boot hits I lift it but enough strikes and it wears them out. I end up throwing out perfectly good boots, except for the toe.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7371/27964295556_9116cd7086.jpg)a

The thought of my little toe scraping the bitumen at speed doesn't warrant thinking about.

As for mileage, I don't keep records but I know I used to replace them so often I could remember, not so much anymore (mind you, that could age related)



The main reason for sticky tyres however, is safety, increasing your reserve grip for corners and braking when riding normally.

Noel


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Dieselman7.3 on August 07, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
Thank you I will be locating a gsxr rear wheel for the winter tear down... looks very easy to do.
As far as tires go I don’t like to cheap out when it comes to bike tires... I’m also not opposed to having to change them every year regardless of mileage out of a tire, I would go with the grippest tire I can find not just for cornering but even if I’m not expecting rain I tend to get caught in it. I also am hoping to get back to my old ways of riding any day it’s of 32°f so I know cold rubber becomes harder and less grippy.  I know tires can be a touchy topic much like oil but I’m also open to suggestions and sizes. I currently running 170/70/16 and 130/70/16 and I like the combination


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Millietant on August 07, 2019, 03:49:21 PM
Thank you. I know I need to change to 17s there isn’t a whole lot out there for 16s.
What wheel is direct bolt on for the rear?  Planning on doing 89 forks and 17x3.5 front wheel this winter.


Click on the pdf file in the first post

[url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0[/url] ([url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0[/url])

The following link shows what years will work.


[url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2465.0[/url] ([url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2465.0[/url])


Fred


I'm a fan of the GSXR swaps as well, but another alternative I found was the YZF 600 R Thundercat swap which for me was much easier and cheaper, as I could use my existing new FJ1200 rear sprocket (but reversed on the Cush Drive so you don't have to do any machining), rear brake caliper, brake pads, torque arm,  swing arm mounting, bolts, master cylinder etc and only needed a slightly longer brake hose (1"), which I was changing anyway as I was swapping to a newer braided steel line to match my new front lines. I used the 600's wheel assembly, with brake caliper mount and spacers. Taking 8mm off the caliper mount where it sits beside the swinging arm and machining the sprocket side wheel spacer a bit thinner (can't remember how much thinner (maybe 8 mm again, but check the files here for the exact amount), were the only other mods I needed to do and a local friendly machine shop did the work in about 20 mins and it cost me less than £20 all-in.

In total, the conversion cost me only £75 in terms of specific expense, as I needed a new tyre and chain/sprockets (both were totally worn when I took the bike off the road) and rear brake line anyway.

Best value-for-money mod I've made to my FJ  :good2:


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Dieselman7.3 on August 07, 2019, 04:13:19 PM
I’ll look in to that as well I’m all about saving money. As far as machining goes my father owns a machine shop so that I won’t cost me anything. (Me being a fabricator and my father being a machinist makes modding parts cost effective)


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: FJ Flyer on August 08, 2019, 04:21:31 AM
Holy smokes Mike! :good:

Imagine 15k on a set of tires. On a FJ no less....Isn’t technology wonderful?
I’m currently at 5k on my Pilot Road 5’s and I have no clue when I’ll need to replace them.

Do you guys remember when our rear tires would last only 3k? It doesn’t seem like that long ago.

I used to get 20+K miles out of those old Dunlop K591 bias tires on my FJ.  Handled like a truck, but lasted for miles!  I reliably get 16K+ miles from the Michelin PR2/PR3s.  I've got a set of PR5s waiting to go on my FJR.  Have tried other brands but nothing will consistently last the miles as well as the Michelins.


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Tuned forks on August 08, 2019, 06:52:41 PM
Thank you. I know I need to change to 17s there isn’t a whole lot out there for 16s.
What wheel is direct bolt on for the rear?  Planning on doing 89 forks and 17x3.5 front wheel this winter.


Click on the pdf file in the first post

[url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0[/url] ([url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0[/url])

The following link shows what years will work.


[url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2465.0[/url] ([url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2465.0[/url])


Fred


I'm a fan of the GSXR swaps as well, but another alternative I found was the YZF 600 R Thundercat swap which for me was much easier and cheaper, as I could use my existing new FJ1200 rear sprocket (but reversed on the Cush Drive so you don't have to do any machining), rear brake caliper, brake pads, torque arm,  swing arm mounting, bolts, master cylinder etc and only needed a slightly longer brake hose (1"), which I was changing anyway as I was swapping to a newer braided steel line to match my new front lines. I used the 600's wheel assembly, with brake caliper mount and spacers. Taking 8mm off the caliper mount where it sits beside the swinging arm and machining the sprocket side wheel spacer a bit thinner (can't remember how much thinner (maybe 8 mm again, but check the files here for the exact amount), were the only other mods I needed to do and a local friendly machine shop did the work in about 20 mins and it cost me less than £20 all-in.

In total, the conversion cost me only £75 in terms of specific expense, as I needed a new tyre and chain/sprockets (both were totally worn when I took the bike off the road) and rear brake line anyway.

Best value-for-money mod I've made to my FJ  :good2:


Dean, what year Thundercats would be suitable donors?  Is that an European model only?

Joe


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: FJmonkey on August 08, 2019, 07:03:46 PM
Joe, Thundercat was Euro name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_YZF600R


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Tuned forks on August 08, 2019, 09:05:17 PM
Thanks Monkey.

Joe


Title: Re: Iron Butt Rally riders
Post by: Millietant on August 09, 2019, 12:25:57 AM
They're all suitable Joe, as there were no changes throughout the models life  :good2:

They were sold in the U.K. from around 1996 until 2004/2005 (although after about 1999/2000 the R6 was the more popular 600 in the Yamaha range) when Yamaha dropped the bike because it didn't meet the newest EU nouse regulations, but I think they were on sale in the USA for 2 or three years after that.