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General Category => Yamaha FJ1100 / FJ1200 Running Problems => Topic started by: flo3flo on December 18, 2019, 03:47:39 PM

Title: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: flo3flo on December 18, 2019, 03:47:39 PM
Hello all. I'm new to this forum and have recently come to own a 1991 FJ1200 3XW. I have previously owned other bikes such as a CBR1000F, TL1000S, R1200GS and XJ600 (not diversion). I am fairly proficient with mechanics having completely stripped and rebuilt the TL1000S but haven't worked on carbs for about 15 years so could do with your help.
The back story with my FJ is that it belonged to my dad. He bought it 22 years ago and rode it as his daily commuter until he died 10 years ago. He also owned a TL1000S which I inherited. It wasn't running at all so I rebuilt it. However, I hated riding it, so sold it 5 years later and bought a BMW. (I sold that too last year). My dad's brother inherited the FJ and rode it occasionally. Unfortunately he too died a year ago and he left the bike to me. I had it transported to my house in Cornwall from Surrey a few months ago but it is not running. I have lots of memories attached to the bike which is why I am determined to get it back on the road, but there's so much wrong with it. Warped discs, siezed brake calipers, oil leak down the left side of the engine block and right clutch cover, crumbling plastics, rusted solid rear shock, split air intake rubbers, dead battery and clogged carbs.
Obviously most of this can be replaced with new stuff but will be expensive so I have to drip feed the parts as I can afford them.
I have had the carb bank off and stripped and carefully cleaned them. The diaphragms look ok. All the smaller jets were solid but are now clear. I measured the float heights. All of them were way out. Around 3mm each! I measured them to the rounded edge according to previous posts from RPM on this forum. But how could they have been so far out?
Everything else looked fine and once cleaned, were reassembled and put back on the bike. I reset the air screws to 3 turns out and set up my dummy fuel tank. It started first press of the button! It was rough but she warmed up and I balanced them out with my Carbtune Pro. I actually got her running really smoothly. After cooling, I checked all the spark plugs which looked spot on.
The following day I could smell petrol and a puddle under the centre stand. The overflow tube from carb #1 was dripping. Have I missed something? Worn petcock or petcock valve seat O ring maybe?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: stou on December 18, 2019, 03:57:02 PM
Did you checked the float level? Or maybe the needle valve is stuck open?
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Tuned forks on December 18, 2019, 04:13:06 PM
Kinda looks like a float needle valve is stuck open or is not sealing.  Is it financially feasible to buy the carb rebuild kit from RPM since you are over the pond? 

Joe
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on December 18, 2019, 04:34:46 PM
You did not mention if you replaced all the o rings in the carbs when you cleaned them.
You should have, but, if you did not, you need to....dried out float needle seat o rings is a common cause of leaks. Spend $24 for this kit. It is a bargain
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit)

Next, is a leaking diaphragm on your fuel pump.
With the key off, fuel tank full (for the head pressure)  on the fuel pump, remove the fuel line that goes to the carbs (output side of the fuel pump)
Now, do you see any fuel dribbling out of the fuel pump?
You should not.
If so, the fuel pump diaphragm is knackered and is letting fuel thru to the carbs when the bike is not running. This is bad and bad things happen when FJ's piss fuel on the floor of your garage.
:bomb:
Replace the fuel pump.
Do not buy a cheap eBay Chinese fuel pump. Ask me how I know this (Thanks again Robert)
Buy a oem Yamaha pump for best quality.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=YamFPump (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=YamFPump)

Welcome to our Forum.  Cheers. Pat
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: flo3flo on December 19, 2019, 10:26:07 AM
Quote from: stou on December 18, 2019, 03:57:02 PM
Did you checked the float level? Or maybe the needle valve is stuck open?
Yes I checked all 4. I will remove the carbs again and check the needle valve in carb #1. Thanks
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: flo3flo on December 19, 2019, 10:27:15 AM
Quote from: Tuned forks on December 18, 2019, 04:13:06 PM
Kinda looks like a float needle valve is stuck open or is not sealing.  Is it financially feasible to buy the carb rebuild kit from RPM since you are over the pond? 

Joe
I'll check out the RPM kit. Thanks.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: flo3flo on December 19, 2019, 10:29:29 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 18, 2019, 04:34:46 PM
You did not mention if you replaced all the o rings in the carbs when you cleaned them.
You should have, but, if you did not, you need to....dried out float needle seat o rings is a common cause of leaks. Spend $24 for this kit. It is a bargain
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit)

Next, is a leaking diaphragm on your fuel pump.
With the key off, fuel tank full (for the head pressure)  on the fuel pump, remove the fuel line that goes to the carbs (output side of the fuel pump)
Now, do you see any fuel dribbling out of the fuel pump?
You should not.
If so, the fuel pump diaphragm is knackered and is letting fuel thru to the carbs when the bike is not running. This is bad and bad things happen when FJ's piss fuel on the floor of your garage.
:bomb:
Replace the fuel pump.
Do not buy a cheap eBay Chinese fuel pump. Ask me how I know this (Thanks again Robert)
Buy a oem Yamaha pump for best quality.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=YamFPump (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=YamFPump)

Welcome to our Forum.  Cheers. Pat
Thanks for the advice. I'll do these checks. Thanks.
I did replace the O rings but they were from a box of assorted O rings that I've had for a few years so will look into the kit from RPM.
I'll test the fuel pump too. Cheers.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: flo3flo on January 03, 2020, 12:20:19 PM
Hello again. I took Pat's advice and tested the fuel pump. Indeed it does dribble fuel out with the slightest movement of the dummy tank that I have rigged up to my garage ceiling. There is only 1 litre of fuel in the dummy tank so I'm assuming a new pump is needed. Where is the best place to buy one please?

Also, the mysterious oil leak down the left hand side of the head and cylinder block seems to be coming from the two domed head nuts at the left hand end of the head. Although I'm yet to degrease it and apply some talc to show exactly where.

Cheers from West Cornwall, UK.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 03, 2020, 01:26:51 PM
I posted a link on buying a new genuine Yamaha oem fuel pump. That is my #1 recommendation.
Still you have a couple of options, 1) buy a used pump, but it's a gamble 2) keep your pump and install an electric solenoid shut off valve. See reply #8 http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16529.msg168445#msg168445 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16529.msg168445#msg168445) See reply #30 http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=17737.msg180060#msg180060 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=17737.msg180060#msg180060)

Re:oil leak. The domed nuts that torque the head down to the cylinder block are called acorn nuts. These should be torqued down to 25 ft.lbs. Check to see that they are properly torqued.
Here's where I can't remember which side.....on the 2 outside acorn nuts...either on the right side or left side (as you sit on the bike) there is a copper crush washer that seals the pressurized oil passage.
If it's on the left side, that could be where your leak could be coming from.....if the copper crush washer goes on the right side, then that's not the problem.
Others will chime in on the correct side for the crush washer. Perhaps a new crush washer is neeeded?
Also, on the valve cover bolts, is common for the rubber grommets to dry out and lose their seal. It is a very hot environment down there for rubber parts. Consider getting some fresh grommets.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=2GH-1111G-00-00&cat=39 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=2GH-1111G-00-00&cat=39)
If they do leak, get new grommets and by all means do not attempt to over torque these valve cover bolts.
They have a shoulder on them and they will break.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: flo3flo on January 03, 2020, 04:11:46 PM
Thanks for the info Pat.
I'll probably go for a new OEM pump. My pump also makes a loud clicking noise when the ignition key is turned on. It starts fast then slows down after a few seconds and stops.
I'll check the torque on the acorn nuts too. I can see copper coloured washers on the right hand two nuts, so I assume they must be keeping a good seal. The leak is definitely coming from the left two nuts which look like they have steel washers underneath.
I have already bought a new set of valve cover grommets (from the US) so I'm confident the oil is not coming from there. A new valve cover rubber gasket has also been fitted. I've checked there's no pinched areas so I'm sure that is good too.
Thanks again.
Flo.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: red on January 03, 2020, 04:12:36 PM
flo3flo,

Please be aware that the carb(s) overflowing can also dump straight fuel into the crankcase, where it will mix with the engine oil.  If you smell fuel in the crankcase oil, DO NOT run the engine until the fuel problem is sorted out, and you have changed the diluted oil for good fresh new engine oil.  Diluted oil can ruin your engine.  Do not use the diluted oil for any vehicles; dispose of the diluted oil properly at an oil disposal site.  My local landfill takes used oil, and some auto parts places may take it for recycling.
.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: flo3flo on January 03, 2020, 04:20:55 PM
Quote from: red on January 03, 2020, 04:12:36 PM
flo3flo,

Please be aware that the carb(s) overflowing can also dump straight fuel into the crankcase, where it will mix with the engine oil.  If you smell fuel in the crankcase oil, DO NOT run the engine until the fuel problem is sorted out, and you have changed the diluted oil for good fresh new engine oil.  Diluted oil can ruin your engine.  Do not use the diluted oil for any vehicles; dispose of the diluted oil properly at an oil disposal site.  My local landfill takes used oil, and some auto parts places may take it for recycling.
.
Good point. Thanks Red.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Tuned forks on January 03, 2020, 08:28:54 PM
and based upon my 1990, the pump always starts our clicking away quickly, slows down and eventually stops.  It's supposed to stop when the needle valves shut.

Joe
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: flo3flo on January 04, 2020, 05:35:45 AM
Quote from: Tuned forks on January 03, 2020, 08:28:54 PM
and based upon my 1990, the pump always starts our clicking away quickly, slows down and eventually stops.  It's supposed to stop when the needle valves shut.

Joe
Thats good to know....thanks.
Also, I have just placed my tank back on the bike and plumbed in the old pump and no dribbles at all.
I can only imagine that my dummy tank hanging on the cieling with a metre of fuel hose is too much gravity for the little pump diaphragm.  :unknown: :scratch_one-s_head:
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: ribbert on January 04, 2020, 08:29:35 AM
Quote from: flo3flo on January 04, 2020, 05:35:45 AM
Quote from: Tuned forks on January 03, 2020, 08:28:54 PM
and based upon my 1990, the pump always starts our clicking away quickly, slows down and eventually stops.  It's supposed to stop when the needle valves shut.

Joe
Thats good to know....thanks.
Also, I have just placed my tank back on the bike and plumbed in the old pump and no dribbles at all.
I can only imagine that my dummy tank hanging on the cieling with a metre of fuel hose is too much gravity for the little pump diaphragm.  :unknown: :scratch_one-s_head:

Glad you got it sorted. Yes, the clicking is normal and yes, the tank was too high.

Just for future interest, it is often said if the fuel pump leaks when switched off, the pump has had it. My observations are they can to do that at a very early age. Mine was doing that 200k ago and is still on the bike. If I pulled the hose off tomorrow (and bypassed my cut-off solenoid) it would leak now. I have also seen it on others at relatively low mileage.

I should add, I install low pressure pumps on other vehicles as well and have been for decades. I use the same pumps on cars and bikes. A low pressure fuel pump is a low pressure fuel pump.

Noel
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: red on January 04, 2020, 10:59:34 AM
Quote from: flo3flo on January 04, 2020, 05:35:45 AM
Quote from: Tuned forks on January 03, 2020, 08:28:54 PMand based upon my 1990, the pump always starts our clicking away quickly, slows down and eventually stops.  It's supposed to stop when the needle valves shut.
Joe
Thats good to know....thanks.  Also, I have just placed my tank back on the bike and plumbed in the old pump and no dribbles at all.
I can only imagine that my dummy tank hanging on the cieling with a metre of fuel hose is too much gravity for the little pump diaphragm.  :unknown:
flo3flo,

There will be times when the fuel tank is full, or you park in the sunlight, or the tank vent releases some pressure, but not all of the pressure.  A new fuel pump gives better peace of mind, as does a fuel shut-off solenoid.  I'd like to hear a good source (and price) for that option.  Riding home on fuel-diluted engine oil is not recommended.  Your fuel pump alone should prevent that.  Your carb float needle-valves alone should prevent that.  A fuel shut-off solenoid should absolutely prevent that.  Choose well, you will sleep better.   :yes:  
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: ribbert on January 04, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: red on January 04, 2020, 10:59:34 AM

....as does a fuel shut-off solenoid.  I'd like to hear a good source (and price) for that option......


Red, I don't keep records for my bike and the unit has no markings from which it can be identified but I do remember it cost less than $30 delivered from all places, Hungary and included post. That must have been at least 30+k ago and I never give it a thought until someone mentions it here, fit and forget.

You're absolutely right about the peace of mind, I frequently ride to places where waking up to a sump full of fuel doesn't even bear thinking about.

I forget why I chose that particular one but it has a few features in particular I wanted, an inline configuration, the default (no power) position is closed and it has thumb nut to manually open it in the event of power failure or device failure so it can't leave you stranded, although I imagine these last two would be pretty standard.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/902/27273916918_d3cd4aa6a2_c.jpg)

Every FJ should have one.

Noel
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 04, 2020, 09:49:54 PM
Quote from: ribbert on January 04, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
....Every FJ should have one.

The vacuum petcocks have a safety advantage over the 12v solenoids.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: red on January 04, 2020, 11:54:46 PM
Quote from: ribbert on January 04, 2020, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: red on January 04, 2020, 10:59:34 AM....as does a fuel shut-off solenoid.  I'd like to hear a good source (and price) for that option......
Red, I don't keep records for my bike and the unit has no markings from which it can be identified but I do remember it cost less than $30 delivered from all places, Hungary and included post. That must have been at least 30+k ago and I never give it a thought until someone mentions it here, fit and forget.  You're absolutely right about the peace of mind, I frequently ride to places where waking up to a sump full of fuel doesn't even bear thinking about.

I forget why I chose that particular one but it has a few features in particular I wanted, an inline configuration, the default (no power) position is closed and it has thumb nut to manually open it in the event of power failure or device failure so it can't leave you stranded, although I imagine these last two would be pretty standard.
https://live.staticflickr.com/902/27273916918_d3cd4aa6a2_c.jpg (https://live.staticflickr.com/902/27273916918_d3cd4aa6a2_c.jpg)
Every FJ should have one.
Noel
Noel,

Yep, that one looks good.  The ones I find would not fit into a big coffee mug, and they cost 'way too much.  I suspect that they probably draw some serious current when energized, due to their large size.

Anybody who can help, it would be welcome here.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: ribbert on January 05, 2020, 01:30:42 AM

....3..2..1..

Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 04, 2020, 09:49:54 PM

The vacuum petcocks have a safety advantage over the 12v solenoids.


I'm sure they do.

Noel
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 05, 2020, 01:40:19 AM
Quote from: ribbert on January 05, 2020, 01:30:42 AM

....3..2..1..

Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 04, 2020, 09:49:54 PM

The vacuum petcocks have a safety advantage over the 12v solenoids.


I'm sure they do.

Noel

Do you understand why I say that?
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: ribbert on January 05, 2020, 05:02:32 AM


Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 05, 2020, 01:40:19 AM
Quote from: ribbert on January 05, 2020, 01:30:42 AM

....3..2..1..

Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 04, 2020, 09:49:54 PM

The vacuum petcocks have a safety advantage over the 12v solenoids.


I'm sure they do.

Noel

Do you understand why I say that?

No..... :boredom: but you're clearly itching to tell me, so off you go.....you're the fuel dude....

Noel
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 05, 2020, 09:56:27 AM
Thought you would never ask....

With the vacuum petcock the fuel flow stops when the engine stops.
With the electric solenoid the fuel flow stops when you turn your key off.
In an accident with the engine stalled, you may not be able to get to the key to turn it off.

:bomb:
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: ribbert on January 06, 2020, 02:05:04 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 05, 2020, 09:56:27 AM
Thought you would never ask....

With the vacuum petcock the fuel flow stops when the engine stops.
With the electric solenoid the fuel flow stops when you turn your key off.
In an accident with the engine stalled, you may not be able to get to the key to turn it off.

:bomb:


Well, if fire is what you're worried about, if the engine is stalled there's no longer an ignition source to start one. As you know, no amount of heat from the exhaust (being the hottest engine part) is going to ignite fuel, it needs a spark.

I've seen many crashed bikes in the places I've worked. Common sources of fuel spillage from an accident are such things as snapped off fuel taps (petcocks), punctured tanks, hoses pulled off dislodged tanks, the pressure wave from an impact can blow off the hoses, pop open the cap or even split a seem, as can deformation.

You have to draw the line somewhere when taking precautions against "what if's ...." and that is an entirely personal choice, for some folks, that can mean never throwing a leg over a bike in the first place.  If I had an accident and couldn't get to the bike to turn it off, it probably wouldn't matter because if it was going to burn, in all likelihood it would have caught fire before it even came to rest. The contents of the bowls is probably enough to fuel a totally destructive fire anyway(IMO)

My own experience, and more recently youtube compilations suggest bikes catching fire from accidents is far less frequent than one might imagine (IMO).

Pat, you are of course technically correct but at the same time drawing a very long bow in assuming a 'perfect storm' of circumstances that I don't personally feel the need to guard against. There are many more things with much shorter odds that are likely to get me first.

Haha, having said that, my bike will probably fall off it's side stand next week and burn to the ground.

Pat, with your love of aftermarket parts in OEM bags this could be the answer:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49337296763_222cc8f389.jpg)

Noel
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 06, 2020, 10:31:24 AM
When I think about all the safety gizmos (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.123) on my '84 like:
1) Run/stop switch 2) clutch safety switch 3) side stand switch 4) self canceling turn signals 5) oil level light 6) fuel level light 7) neutral light 8 ) horn 9) vacuum shut off petcock ....I remember earlier days and the motorcycles I have owned without all these gizmos and how these bikes performed just fine.
Things were simpler back then. If you forgot to turn off your petcock, you flooded your engine. Simple as that. Change your oil and filter and off you went, lesson learned.
Remember next time to turn off your petcock, you dummy.
I never seemed to miss any of these safety gizmos.
I remember in the late '60's the first time I saw that big red run/stop switch next to the throttle and thought to myself....how silly, why not just use the key to turn off the bike?

That said, a lean angle stop switch would have come in handy when I low sided my FJ.
I was out in the boonies and hit sand in the middle of a corner which washed out my front end. My bike ended up on her side 50ft away from me, and with my chest injury I could not move. It took several long minutes before my riding buddy came back. I remember listening as my FJ just laid there on her side, idling, while the lack of oil pressure ruined her engine.

All is good now, actually better thanks to RPM, but a lean angle stop switch would have saved my engine ($$)

Thanks Noel, I'm going to look into adding that switch to my bike.
I'll put it in a readily accessible location so I can easily reset it in the event of a tip over (shudder)

Cheers

Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Millietant on January 06, 2020, 04:50:50 PM
LOL Pat, my first bike didn't even have indicators/turn-signals (let alone self cancelling ones), mirrors, or a brake light switch on the front brake.............oh how good bikes are now as standard these days  :good2:
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 06, 2020, 05:17:38 PM
Quote from: Millietant on January 06, 2020, 04:50:50 PM
.....my first bike didn't even have.....a brake light switch on the front brake.

No front brake light switch? Ha!  I had a bike that did not even have a front brake....(you think I'm kidding?)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/49_24_04_14_7_29_13_1.jpeg)

You really really learned to plan ahead with this one ^^^

Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: krusty on January 06, 2020, 05:24:27 PM
Quote from: ribbert on January 06, 2020, 02:05:04 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 05, 2020, 09:56:27 AM
Thought you would never ask....

With the vacuum petcock the fuel flow stops when the engine stops.
With the electric solenoid the fuel flow stops when you turn your key off.
In an accident with the engine stalled, you may not be able to get to the key to turn it off.

:bomb:


Well, if fire is what you're worried about, if the engine is stalled there's no longer an ignition source to start one. As you know, no amount of heat from the exhaust (being the hottest engine part) is going to ignite fuel, it needs a spark.

I've seen many crashed bikes in the places I've worked. Common sources of fuel spillage from an accident are such things as snapped off fuel taps (petcocks), punctured tanks, hoses pulled off dislodged tanks, the pressure wave from an impact can blow off the hoses, pop open the cap or even split a seem, as can deformation.

You have to draw the line somewhere when taking precautions against "what if's ...." and that is an entirely personal choice, for some folks, that can mean never throwing a leg over a bike in the first place.  If I had an accident and couldn't get to the bike to turn it off, it probably wouldn't matter because if it was going to burn, in all likelihood it would have caught fire before it even came to rest. The contents of the bowls is probably enough to fuel a totally destructive fire anyway(IMO)

My own experience, and more recently youtube compilations suggest bikes catching fire from accidents is far less frequent than one might imagine (IMO).

Pat, you are of course technically correct but at the same time drawing a very long bow in assuming a 'perfect storm' of circumstances that I don't personally feel the need to guard against. There are many more things with much shorter odds that are likely to get me first.

Haha, having said that, my bike will probably fall off it's side stand next week and burn to the ground.

Pat, with your love of aftermarket parts in OEM bags this could be the answer:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49337296763_222cc8f389.jpg)

Noel


Eeeeek!! Noticed the postage on that port.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 06, 2020, 06:49:27 PM
Quote from: krusty on January 06, 2020, 05:24:27 PM
Eeeeek!! Noticed the postage on that port.

Yea, I saw that.... $41.47 is stupid for US shipping... :mad:
It's a very common part available from Partszilla for $4.00 shipping.
https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/5PS-82576-01-00 (https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/5PS-82576-01-00)

One reason I never buy oem parts from FleaBay.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: ribbert on January 06, 2020, 08:06:05 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 06, 2020, 06:49:27 PM
Quote from: krusty on January 06, 2020, 05:24:27 PM
Eeeeek!! Noticed the postage on that port.

Yea, I saw that.... $41.47 is stupid for US shipping... :mad:
It's a very common part available from Partszilla for $4.00 shipping.
https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/5PS-82576-01-00 (https://www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/5PS-82576-01-00)

One reason I never buy oem parts from FleaBay.

That's freight to Australia. An OEM (packaged) fuel pump for example with exchange rate and postage is nearly $400!
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: CutterBill on January 09, 2020, 10:47:26 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 06, 2020, 10:31:24 AM...That said, a lean angle stop switch would have come in handy when I low sided my FJ...
I got excited when I saw that lean angle switch. I wondered if it could easily be added to an FJ to control the fuel pump, or perhaps even an electrical fuel valve. I did some research and the short answer is... No.

I uses a swinging magnet inside to detect lean angle, which tells me it uses some kind of Hall effect circuitry. So it's a sensor for a computer; it's not a discrete device. But that got me thinking... (always dangerous)... the clever mounting of two mercury switches might do the trick. Hmmm, this calls for more experimentation. Back to the laboratory...
Bill
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: T Legg on January 09, 2020, 11:25:49 AM
I haven't seen the switch but it is more likely the swinging magnet would close a small leaf switch where two thin metal blades are sucked togethor by the magnet to complete the circuit and open when the magnet swings away.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: CutterBill on January 09, 2020, 02:11:17 PM
Nope. I found a photo of a disassembled sensor... no leaf switches. All solid-state devices. Also, for testing the sensor, you are measuring very low voltages, not continuity. See attachments.
Bill
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: T Legg on January 09, 2020, 04:21:18 PM

Your right it isn't a simple leaf switch. It seems like an overly complicated device to provide a two state on or off signal.maybe the computerized monstrosity it is meant for uses other inputs like velocity so it doesn't cut out in a deep corner although I've never leaned down to 65 degrees while riding I'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: CutterBill on January 09, 2020, 07:26:58 PM
Quote from: T Legg on January 09, 2020, 04:21:18 PM...although I've never leaned down to 65 degrees while riding I'm pretty sure.
Doesn't matter how much or little you lean. The force vector on a bike is always straight "down" thru the center of the bike (unless you are crashing.) Bikes are balanced thru the turns, that's how they work. If you want a visualization, tape a glass of water to the top of your tank and go for ride. The water level will always stay "level" relative to the bike.
Bill
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: FJmonkey on January 09, 2020, 09:43:07 PM
Quote from: CutterBill on January 09, 2020, 07:26:58 PM
Quote from: T Legg on January 09, 2020, 04:21:18 PM...although I've never leaned down to 65 degrees while riding I'm pretty sure.
If you want a visualization, tape a glass of water to the top of your tank and go for ride. The water level will always stay "level" relative to the bike.
Bill

I tried that once, the water stayed put when turning in either direction. Very much like being in a plane when turning. But the front of my jacket kept getting wet during Kookaloo moments.  :shok:
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 10, 2020, 09:55:37 AM
Thanks Bill for looking into that switch...I found the same information.
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: ribbert on January 10, 2020, 07:16:32 PM
I always look to what I already have first. In this case I thought of these, sump or pit pump floats, I have quite a few lying around and they are robust and waterproof.

(https://civconws.com.au/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Float_Switch_10__59ae401be6d24.jpg)

(https://5.imimg.com/data5/PR/VF/HK/SELLER-10825059/float-switch-500x500.jpg)

For me though the thought went as quickly as it came. It's not a problem for which I need a solution but there are hundreds of gravity switches on the market, it wouldn't be difficult to rig something up.

Noel
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: iWant2RideMyBike on January 11, 2020, 05:03:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 18, 2019, 04:34:46 PM
You did not mention if you replaced all the o rings in the carbs when you cleaned them.
You should have, but, if you did not, you need to....dried out float needle seat o rings is a common cause of leaks. Spend $24 for this kit. It is a bargain
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=carbkit)

Next, is a leaking diaphragm on your fuel pump.
With the key off, fuel tank full (for the head pressure)  on the fuel pump, remove the fuel line that goes to the carbs (output side of the fuel pump)
Now, do you see any fuel dribbling out of the fuel pump?
You should not.
If so, the fuel pump diaphragm is knackered and is letting fuel thru to the carbs when the bike is not running. This is bad and bad things happen when FJ's piss fuel on the floor of your garage.

:bomb:
Replace the fuel pump.
Do not buy a cheap eBay Chinese fuel pump. Ask me how I know this (Thanks again Robert)
Buy a oem Yamaha pump for best quality.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=YamFPump (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=YamFPump)

Welcome to our Forum.  Cheers. Pat

Pat,
I stumbled upon this while looking for symptoms of a fuel filter/clogged fuel system problem. I pulled my carbs yesterday to try and clean them again, and I noticed that...

1) On the Y fitting with the fuel line that runs into the carbs themselves, the right hand side line was pinched pretty good. I don't think it was enough to stop fuel flowing, but enough to restrict it I would guess.

2) The far left float bowl was empty, which concerns the heck out of me.

3) There were some small puddles of fuel underneath the carbs, which I didn't notice last time I pulled them

4) Fuel most definitely did come out of the line running into the petcock

After reading your comment, does point #4 mean that I need to replace the fuel pump diagram on my FJ? Granted that my tank was not full at all, but now I'm concerned I have some other issues that I was not anticipating. But I'd like to get it done in one fell swoop while the carbs are off, if there is.

Gabe
Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 11, 2020, 06:28:01 PM
Hi Gabe, you have a '86 FJ1200 so you do not have a fuel pump. (The fuel pump FJ's started in 1989 in the US)
You have what we call a "gravity flow" FJ that uses a vacuum petcock to open and close fuel supply to the engine.
One of your fuel lines is pinched.....a common problem when the incorrect fuel line route is used.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18286.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18286.0)
You must follow this fuel line routing ^^^ or you will pinch your fuel line.

When your vacuum petcock is closed (engine off) it should be closed, as in fully closed...no gas dribbling out.
If you have gas dribble, replace your petcock. That's my recommendation...some folks will say to try and rebuild the petcock, but not me....just buy a new one from RPM and be done with it.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A1TX-24500-02 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A1TX-24500-02)

You have a goofy electric reserve function on your '86/87 that I personally do not like, so if you want to use a less expensive non reserve  '84/85 petcock (plug and play) it would not break my heart.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A36Y-24500-01 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A36Y-24500-01)

Finally, gravity fuel flow FJ's are sensitive to anything that impedes fuel flow...like fuel filters....they don't like them....they don't use them.  All they use is a filter screen over the petcock inlet inside the tank....
Fuel filters are used on the Fuel pump FJ's but not on the gravity flow FJ's.

Cheers

Pat

Title: Re: I could really do with some advice please.......
Post by: iWant2RideMyBike on January 19, 2020, 10:44:34 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 11, 2020, 06:28:01 PM
Hi Gabe, you have a '86 FJ1200 so you do not have a fuel pump. (The fuel pump FJ's started in 1989 in the US)
You have what we call a "gravity flow" FJ that uses a vacuum petcock to open and close fuel supply to the engine.
One of your fuel lines is pinched.....a common problem when the incorrect fuel line route is used.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18286.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18286.0)
You must follow this fuel line routing ^^^ or you will pinch your fuel line.
Pat,
thanks for the links! My FJ doesn't have the air box anymore so I had no clue that was how the line is supposed to be routed. (I physically have it, but it isn't installed and I never saw the instructions on it) As for the petcock, I'll likely put it on my list of things to do, haha. Money isn't really an issue, but I find my self hesitating before making purchases when it hits over the $100 mark. lol

- Gabe