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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: gumby302ho on November 14, 2020, 09:06:10 AM



Title: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: gumby302ho on November 14, 2020, 09:06:10 AM
 So I have put almost a thousand klicks on the blackbird and still not becoming one with it just yet. Some pros and cons from my personal perception of coarse. First off I find my FJ way more stable coming into hot corners, I feel the bird is a little twitchy like an excited young horse where as the FJ does not spook and complies. The bird has skiny little foot pegs which require a stiffer boot as it feels your feet are folding around the pegs like one is wearing flip flops. The FJ of coarse has proper foot pegs and is normal. On a comfort level the FJ wins again as the bird is a touch more leaning angle and one needs good strong wrists or keep the speed above 145km/hr.(both bikes have bar risers). I was annoyed with heat streaming off the lower right side into my leg constantly, the FJ never bothered me with heat being blasted at me. People say the bird is legendary smooth, I dont feel its as smooth as what has been written about them, the bar ends are whimpy little units using a JIS screw that ties into some rubber mount inside the bars, can never get them tight, I already went with heavy bar ends and it did help. Getting back to cornering, it could be me squeezing to hard and not fully relaxed causing the bird to twitch but I have tried and still would rather be on the FJ when heading into a hot corner. The Blackbird is still a fun motorcycle and I wont praise it to much but it is no ITX!


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: fj1289 on November 14, 2020, 09:58:56 AM
I’m assuming for outright power the Blackbird gets the nod .... but put some work into the FJ engine and that may change!


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: aviationfred on November 14, 2020, 11:33:04 AM
Maybe Steve Baumann can weigh in. I know that he had a Blackbird and his FJ1200. He sold the Blackbird a few years ago.

Many owners never appreciate how great the FJ really is. It may not be the fastest, it may not have the best handling, it may not be the most comfortable, and it may not be the lightest in weight.What the FJ is...
Not the best in a single category, but is above average in every category I listed. That is usually the formula that Honda prescribed for their bikes back in the 1990's.

I have never ridden a Blackbird, but I can use my VFR750 as an example. I have handlebar risers and lowered pegs installed. The riding position is now about the same as a stock FJ. There is about 50lbs less weight and down about 25hp. I love the bike as the ride is very much like a miniature FJ with a snarl.


Fred


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: FJ1200W on November 14, 2020, 12:18:25 PM
Thanks Fred -
I had a 2001 XX in Titanium and flat out loved it.
Normal mods - lower footpegs, handlebar risers. Aftermarket cans and a PCIII. Changed the fuel pressure regulator and a few other things, they are awesome machines.
No comparison in power to the FJ, the XX has a warp drive one must experience to believe.
Handling, I found it excellent for what the bike was - and comfort, it was not bad, all day comfy, no worries.
Why did I sell it?
I decided I valued my life.
That bike would cruise comfortably at well over a hundred, would leap to a buck fifty in seconds.
A hundred literally felt like 55.
I like to ride fast and if I had not sold it, I doubted I would last -
I had never been able to break 100 in the 1/8 mile. I did on my 1st pass on the XX. It's that quick and fast, even with my hand on the bars.
Dislikes: More difficult to work on than the FJ, but not asinine in terms of engineering.
If the FJ is a P51 fighter, the XX is exactly what it is - the Blackbird.
Apples and oranges.
Both worthy of owning.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Ted Schefelbein on November 14, 2020, 07:49:53 PM
The decade between development of the two bikes is more telling than any comparison of the bikes themselves. Motorcycles of all stripes advanced rapidly in handling, output, and competitive use during that time.
The real story is not that the blackbird is a superb machine. It is. But, this is not the first time an FJ, an older design, has been compared to it. That, is the interesting part of the story.
For me, the blackbird leans far harder into the realm of “sport”. The FJ, older bike that it is, is superbly balanced on the razor edge that is the border between “sport” and “touring”.
Any engineer will let you know, in no uncertain terms, it is easier to design and build to one standard, rather then two.
 The FJ was built to both.

Ted


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Millietant on November 15, 2020, 01:23:54 AM
Must say, I agree with Ted on a lot of this - to be comparing a FJ and a XX is real testament to the strength of the original FJ design. There's at least 10 years of development between the two bikes, from a period when bikes moved forward an astronimocal amount.

I think though that you might be underestimating the engine development issues Chris - I believe the XX made +160 RWHP as stock and that's a figure that full-race FJ's, with a lot of work (and money spent) are making, not street, reliable, quiet one's. But then again, who needs +160 BHP in a street bike - with the FJ, it's the driveability and torque delivery of the engine that gives it its appeal.

My friends with modern (under 2 years old) Italian, German and Japanese big capacity "torquey" twins are still shocked by the way my FJ does overtakes with just a twist of the wrist in top gear from 60mph  :sarcastic:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: T Legg on November 15, 2020, 02:16:17 AM
They had 141 rwhp  and weighed about the same as an fj1100. I think the aerodynamics were supposed to help achieve their top speed as well .


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Ted Schefelbein on November 15, 2020, 09:41:49 AM
Most of us are old enough to realize top speed is irrelevant. But, getting off at the end of 500 miles, without the assistance of a chiropractor, of a bike you are rider, caretaker, and mechanic all rolled into one is bigly satisfying.
Much easier to do on an FJ. Much easier.

Ted


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: fj1289 on November 15, 2020, 10:54:53 AM
Dean - I’m not delusional enough (yet!) to think you’d easily match the newer “hyper bikes” HP for HP.  But, you can fairly easily and reliably make an FJ put down 145 hp or so.   And since it will still do it at a lower rpm than the newer bikes you still have more torque to work with in real world riding situations and will probably feel faster in most cases.
 


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Waiex191 on November 15, 2020, 12:04:47 PM
The fastest bike I've ever ridden was a ZX11, back in the mid 90s.  It was awesome compared to my FJ with respect to power. I thought about selling my FJ back then and buying that ZX11 when my buddy sold it. I'm glad I didn't.  I really don't need all the performance my FJ offers and it is such a good bike for sport, long distance, or just running errands and commuting.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Millietant on November 15, 2020, 01:58:34 PM
Dean - I’m not delusional enough (yet!) to think you’d easily match the newer “hyper bikes” HP for HP.  But, you can fairly easily and reliably make an FJ put down 145 hp or so.   And since it will still do it at a lower rpm than the newer bikes you still have more torque to work with in real world riding situations and will probably feel faster in most cases.
 

Now you've got me thinking Chris....and dreaming......about the next upgrades for my FJ.....

More power with least expense, don't want pod filters, don't want it overly loud (keeping my Remus exhaust) - how easy ??


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Millietant on November 15, 2020, 02:09:55 PM
The fastest bike I've ever ridden was a ZX11, back in the mid 90s.  It was awesome compared to my FJ with respect to power. I thought about selling my FJ back then and buying that ZX11 when my buddy sold it. I'm glad I didn't.  I really don't need all the performance my FJ offers and it is such a good bike for sport, long distance, or just running errands and commuting.

The friend I've ridden with the most on the roads over the last 45 years, had a ZZR 1100 back in the early 1990's. He came touring on it with us and we rode every Sunday around the best riding routes in the UK (Pennines and Lake District). He loved the top end rush at over 140mph, but ended up moving to a FJ after swapping bikes on tour, and then onto a ST 1100, before a Fireblade (over the space of 2 years).

The ZZR just didn't have the comfort he was looking for (too long a reach to the bars), luggage systems made it unbelievably wide and he felt the throttle response just wasn't good enough at the normal speeds and RPM's we ran on the roads for 99% of the time.

To this day he still has a soft spot for the top end hit of the big Kawasaki's and I can understand and appreciate that, just like I love the razor sharp handling of my Aprilia (vs the FJ), but for all round use the FJ still takes some beating and it's my favourite bike to ride good2:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Motofun on November 15, 2020, 02:31:14 PM
A friend of mine had Blackbird that he put some money into mostly for suspension.  That was one sweet motorcycle.  I'm very used to the sporting position and actually prefer it for anything under 300 miles.  I think it would easily out perform a FJ in most aspects for daily riding, The biggest problem would be keeping your license intact as 100 mph seemed normal.  Kind of the same reason I parked my R1, just couldn't see why going 125 mph, just to get to work in the morning was a good idea!   :Facepalm:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: aviationfred on November 15, 2020, 02:57:01 PM
Dean - I’m not delusional enough (yet!) to think you’d easily match the newer “hyper bikes” HP for HP.  But, you can fairly easily and reliably make an FJ put down 145 hp or so.   And since it will still do it at a lower rpm than the newer bikes you still have more torque to work with in real world riding situations and will probably feel faster in most cases.
 

Now you've got me thinking Chris....and dreaming......about the next upgrades for my FJ.....

More power with least expense, don't want pod filters, don't want it overly loud (keeping my Remus exhaust) - how easy ??


I built my FJ1300 (1297cc) with an eye for reliability and daily use. I think the key was .... No fiddling with the cam timing, and I kept the CV carbs.
I had 14,000 trouble free miles on it.



Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: giantkiller on November 15, 2020, 05:27:51 PM
Fastest bike I've owned. Was my 87 frz1000..I had it built. By RES. Out of Arlington Texas if I remember right. Everything that could be done. Even lightened the crank. Flat slides, cams. Only dynoed at 189hp. But holyshit. I slid the forks up in the triples. So it was  more nose down.  It would lift the  front tire aout an inch  and drive you forward with the  back tire smoking.  That was a fun bike. I had stripped everything unnecessary off of it too. Took it past 187mph.
Was still pulling hard. But I just wanted to go past 185.
That's the one I died on. Supposedly less than 35mph. Still have that motor and the human race teams fzr750r. Going to stuff it in there someday.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: fj1289 on November 15, 2020, 08:02:27 PM
You ought to message Bee Johnson (sbikebee) - he used to tune FZ750’s in superbike.  Knows a thing or two about them  :good:

He was pretty active on the yahoo site, only popped up here a couple of times.  He converted one of the old racers to a street bike. 


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: giantkiller on November 15, 2020, 09:43:12 PM
You ought to message Bee Johnson (sbikebee) - he used to tune FZ750’s in superbike.  Knows a thing or two about them  :good:

He was pretty active on the yahoo site, only popped up here a couple of times.  He converted one of the old racers to a street bike.  
year
The  87 FZR750R I have was the human race team's factory kitted bike. It was the World endurance champion for 2 years. Bought it from Dave Zuppan.
If I remember right the fz's had a different motor. The cylinders were  canted forward more. But tuning was probably about the same. It would be cool to lern from someone like him.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Millietant on November 16, 2020, 08:55:27 AM
Dean - I’m not delusional enough (yet!) to think you’d easily match the newer “hyper bikes” HP for HP.  But, you can fairly easily and reliably make an FJ put down 145 hp or so.   And since it will still do it at a lower rpm than the newer bikes you still have more torque to work with in real world riding situations and will probably feel faster in most cases.
 

Now you've got me thinking Chris....and dreaming......about the next upgrades for my FJ.....

More power with least expense, don't want pod filters, don't want it overly loud (keeping my Remus exhaust) - how easy ??


I built my FJ1300 (1297cc) with an eye for reliability and daily use. I think the key was .... No fiddling with the cam timing, and I kept the CV carbs.
I had 14,000 trouble free miles on it.


I'm liking the idea Fred - one of my closest friends (and my regular mechanical guru) is an ex FJ Racer, who had +140 bhp out of his FJ 1100 (with a FJ 12 motor) - once he retires from full time work I think I'm going to get him to help me build a FJ 1300 motor too, with "semi-sensible" cams, set to give even more of the gorgeous mid range power I love  :good2:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Mike Ramos on November 16, 2020, 11:57:14 AM
Gentlemen,

Below is a from post way back in 2012 about an encounter with a Hayabusa & the new Fork Valves.  Without a doubt it out powers the old FJ however the FJ did well in this brief encounter - since then and several hundred thousand miles, a 2nd low mileage FJ (and a suicidal antelope) later, the old FJ still runs well and holds up well when compared to and competes with other motorcycles. 

Local riding or cross country sojourns with the modern updates & tuned as per RPM recommendations, along with the available suspension components it's an excellent all around performer...!

Ride safe & watch out for wildlife...

Midget


 
Hello everyone,

A true tale...

My introduction to a Hayabusa and a rider in full leathers who looked good and fit the bike well...

Soooo, there I am cruising north on Highway 80 on a recent Saturday morning with soft saddlebags & tank bag, minding my own business [favoring the slow lanes] when a headlight appears in the fast lanes in the distance in my mirror. I pick it up a bit and so does the light... I then increase to the high 80's and so does the light... so at 5,500 rpm I am bopping down the road at 95 mph and the headlight still remains distant... well eventually he catches up, you see the Hwy. 505 cutoff is approaching and that is what he is taking, as am I... so after he catches up I pick it up a notch and am indicating 6,000 rpm (105 mph) and we are rapidly approaching the 505 exit and I am thinking "I don't like this" [it is a two lane sky way with a left hand sweeper followed immediately by a right hand sweeper] because at normal speeds it is dangerous as there are no shoulders and both turns are blind with no where to go if there is a stall in either lane. So as I am preparing to [perhaps] meet my demise and saying to myself "Randy, if those Fork Valves don't work under these conditions I suppose I will see you... in the afterlife!" (I kid you not).
Then as we approach the sky way, he quite dramatically down shifts, shaking his whole bike, and slows down a notch or two, I thought he was getting off at the exit at the approach to the skyway when alas I realized (just a tad late) he is just as scared as am I. Initially, I did not down shift because at 6,000 because if I had to shut down rapidly, without a slipper clutch it would be all I could do keep the rear end from chattering uncontrollably without pulling in the clutch and I did not think I had the courage to do so; so as we enter the skyway I do finally downshift as he begins to accelerate and I am accelerating as hard as I can as well, but although he is [naturally] pulling away, he tops out (by choice) and on the right hander I catch him... I do not know the speed as I am busy riding (okay, hanging on for my life) but it is more than I am comfortable with... as we hit the straight we slow and with a wave he exits the first exit.
I then cruise the remaining three hours home thanking Providence, RPM, Randy, the fork valves and the fork brace that holds the front end all together...
Moral of the story? Despite the vaunted upside down forks and the husky large diameter axle, the old FJ attained, momentarily anyway, parity without bending the skinny old axle & slender fork tubes.
The available to all Fork Valves performed under conditions I had not yet encountered.
And finally, based on the advice offered by the gentleman from RPM who has built perhaps more FJ engines than anyone else on the Forum [and certainly has gained more podium & first place finishes and Championships!], and despite the abuse of the high mileage engine, it never pinged, knocked or ran on three cylinders regardless of ambient temperatures and time of day, and performed well without missing a beat...
 
So that is my story and I am sticking to it. Actually, writing about it still makes me nervous!

All in good humor & keep smiling.

Mike Ramos.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: fj1289 on November 16, 2020, 01:10:39 PM
Ah - I missed the “R” at the end.   The engine cylinder angles are identical - just in the FZR the engine FAA rotated forward a bit - engines swap easily between the frames.  

I forgot about Mike’s little encounter - good read again!


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Motofun on November 16, 2020, 03:58:24 PM
Ha Ha...Who are you kidding Mike?  I rode the Cherahola with you a few years ago.  I was pushing it (said in my best Valentino voice  :lol: ).  Looked back and you were giving me the "When are you going to start?" look.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Alf on November 17, 2020, 02:04:31 AM
Maybe Steve Baumann can weigh in. I know that he had a Blackbird and his FJ1200. He sold the Blackbird a few years ago.

Many owners never appreciate how great the FJ really is. It may not be the fastest, it may not have the best handling, it may not be the most comfortable, and it may not be the lightest in weight.What the FJ is...
Not the best in a single category, but is above average in every category I listed. That is usually the formula that Honda prescribed for their bikes back in the 1990's.

I have never ridden a Blackbird, but I can use my VFR750 as an example. I have handlebar risers and lowered pegs installed. The riding position is now about the same as a stock FJ. There is about 50lbs less weight and down about 25hp. I love the bike as the ride is very much like a miniature FJ with a snarl.


Fred

Completely agree with Fred, except about the VFR: sweet, handsome and brilliant quality bike, but not in the same league than FJ, starting for the underpowered engine and following for the chassis that make improved FJs so good in first place. VFRs are slow and the chassis start flexing when riding turn a bit inspiring.

Sorry Fred  :blush:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Alf on November 17, 2020, 02:14:10 AM
Thanks Fred -
I had a 2001 XX in Titanium and flat out loved it.
Normal mods - lower footpegs, handlebar risers. Aftermarket cans and a PCIII. Changed the fuel pressure regulator and a few other things, they are awesome machines.
No comparison in power to the FJ, the XX has a warp drive one must experience to believe.
Handling, I found it excellent for what the bike was - and comfort, it was not bad, all day comfy, no worries.
Why did I sell it?
I decided I valued my life.
That bike would cruise comfortably at well over a hundred, would leap to a buck fifty in seconds.
A hundred literally felt like 55.
I like to ride fast and if I had not sold it, I doubted I would last -
I had never been able to break 100 in the 1/8 mile. I did on my 1st pass on the XX. It's that quick and fast, even with my hand on the bars.
Dislikes: More difficult to work on than the FJ, but not asinine in terms of engineering.
If the FJ is a P51 fighter, the XX is exactly what it is - the Blackbird.
Apples and oranges.
Both worthy of owning.


Living in an curvy environmental where outright power is superfluous, XX are soft, overweighted and not so funny when on secondary roads, being my improved FJs much more flickable, with better handling and capable of riding faster with more confidence.

Something faster than both, with better handling, better brakes, outright engine, better stability... better almost everything is the Hayabusa. At 200 km/h on motorway feels 40, only the sensation that cars are stopped at your sides

I love it. But I would not last too much, assuming that I would not go to jail first


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: ribbert on November 17, 2020, 05:01:31 AM

Living in an curvy environmental where outright power is superfluous, XX are soft, overweighted and not so funny when on secondary roads, being my improved FJs much more flickable, with better handling and capable of riding faster with more confidence.


Couldn't agree more Alf, my modified FJ in a "curvy environment" is a winner. When looking for something for the same duties and to compliment the FJ a few years back, I found the Blackbird, FJR and GTR to all be in the same boat, all fast in a straight line but hard work in the twisties, the first few corners even a bit scary until you settle in.

As you say, an excess of power in those conditions is superfluous, I chose something with enough grunt but light handling, even though it weighs the same as the FJ, and after a 12 hour day of twisties, that's what you want, 200hp doesn't really improve the ride under those conditions.

Noel



Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: TomJK on November 17, 2020, 06:50:55 AM
Hi
I owned 4 ZZR 1100 (ZX11) and a Blackbird, the FJ is a smooth nice ride, compared to the Kawa's and the Honda, Ok when going fast is your only worry, there the FJ looses, but for nice touring the FJ is hard to beat, in 1999 I rode a friends FJ he rode my Blackbird, no contest the FJ wins on smoothness and comfort....
Cheers,
Tom.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Motofun on November 17, 2020, 08:08:55 AM
If you're going to do a comparison then at least keep the rules intact.  Throw thousands of dollars at the FJ and compare it to a stock XX?  I think we can all agree that stock suspensions are sh*t (especially those from the 80's and 90's).  They work well enough for most applications but begin to fail when pushed beyond the 80% limit.
Neither bike actually works well in the super tight twisty sections where weight becomes the restraining parameter.  Of course modern tires and suspension go a long way to help either bike but eventually the physics of momentum overcome available traction.  Lets not forget that the deciding factor is the monkey sitting on top of the bike.
The FJ is a superb bike for its time.  Farkle it with modern parts and it's still a capable machine.  Hell, I own 2 of them, one since 1985.  Just don't kid yourself into thinking it is better than some of the modern stuff.  This is where you can talk about Josh Hayes on a FJ at Phillip Island......Not all monkeys are equal!   :biggrin:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Alf on November 17, 2020, 11:03:59 AM
If you're going to do a comparison then at least keep the rules intact.  Throw thousands of dollars at the FJ and compare it to a stock XX?  I think we can all agree that stock suspensions are sh*t

Last summer, with a FJ only upgraded with front callipers and Hagon fork springs on Avon Spirit tyres in stock rims and with stock rear shock, no more upgrades. Not thousand euros spent at all. In fact, only with a good revamp to stock set up because the bike was found lying down in a barn. It was much better than a stock XX in sport riding

Just don't kid yourself into thinking it is better than some of the modern stuff.  This is where you can talk about Josh Hayes on a FJ at Phillip Island......Not all monkeys are equal!   :biggrin:

And yes, that humble resurrected FJ is better than a moded Bandid 1250 or FJRs or GTRs, that last two simply too big and ponderous

Have anyone notice that FJs looked big not only in its day, even in 2003 when I bought my 3cv, and now look even minute at the side of big lumps that those mentioned?


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Alf on November 17, 2020, 11:25:53 AM
The 3CV owner that lent me the bike to our annual meeting was the owner of a marvellous 3XW example. Upgraded with brakes and rims, running on 120/180 sizes Avon Spirits.

Even although I dialed carefully the suspension on both bikes, the 3XW behaved similar to a GSXR 1100 K 1989, wallowing, shaking the head, opening the draw inside a curve with the throttle on and shaking its head when throttled was closed. An emergency improved torque of the head bearings (hard tighten down, then loose up and hand-torque tighten due to our lack of a proper torque wrench, you know) solved the handling problems and the quality of ride was superb.

BUT... even with modern rims in a more cared bike, this 3XW was at the 85% maybe than this near stock 3CV in hard sport riding. Modded 3CVs like mine are even far better


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Old Rider on November 17, 2020, 11:55:46 AM
Fj is not slow
once up on a time a loud repsol painted honda cbr1000rr came from behind and up on my side the pilot turned his head looking downward at my fj then downshifted and
roaring away i did the same and after some hectic kilometers when he was going to turn off the road he turned his head again to confirm i was gone but what did he
see ? there the old  Queen was right behind him kookalaoo.  :i_am_so_happy:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: fj1289 on November 17, 2020, 02:06:24 PM
If you're going to do a comparison then at least keep the rules intact.  Throw thousands of dollars at the FJ and compare it to a stock XX? 

I think three things here really play in the FJ’s favor - lower buy-in cost (not counting crazy crack-head deals that aren’t the norm), the FJ responds really well to mods - big improvements for moderate investments, and RPM at your disposal for recommendations and bespoke parts


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: giantkiller on November 18, 2020, 12:12:03 AM
My 86 fj1350r dynoed at 167hp 114 ftlbs. Weighs right at 500 pounds. Handles great. As I  said my neighbor. Who raced a 2008 gsxr 1000. Third in points three years in a row. Said it turns in better than his gsxr. I  spent  just over  $6500 total.  That includes  2008 gsxr inverted front end and wheels. Honda shock with eibach spring. Hank Scott built  motor. Digital  gauges. And  much more. Reliable.  Comfortable. Quick handling. Tones of power and torque. Great brakes. And has killed 2 deer and is still going stong. Best bike ever.... till I get the turbo bike done.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: ribbert on November 18, 2020, 05:56:14 AM
My 86 fj1350r dynoed at 167hp 114 ftlbs. Weighs right at 500 pounds. Handles great. As I  said my neighbor. Who raced a 2008 gsxr 1000. Third in points three years in a row. Said it turns in better than his gsxr. I  spent  just over  $6500 total.  That includes  2008 gsxr inverted front end and wheels. Honda shock with eibach spring. Hank Scott built  motor. Digital  gauges. And  much more. Reliable.  Comfortable. Quick handling. Tones of power and torque. Great brakes. And has killed 2 deer and is still going stong. Best bike ever.... till I get the turbo bike done.

That's very impressive Dan and proof of yet another of the FJ's outstanding assets, a great platform for serious engine mods. That's pretty serious non turbo power for a daily rider/deer killer.

Noel


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: ribbert on November 18, 2020, 07:41:31 AM
If you're going to do a comparison then at least keep the rules intact.  Throw thousands of dollars at the FJ and compare it to a stock XX?  I think we can all agree that stock suspensions are sh*t (especially those from the 80's and 90's).  They work well enough for most applications but begin to fail when pushed beyond the 80% limit.
Neither bike actually works well in the super tight twisty sections where weight becomes the restraining parameter.  Of course modern tires and suspension go a long way to help either bike but eventually the physics of momentum overcome available traction.  Lets not forget that the deciding factor is the monkey sitting on top of the bike.
The FJ is a superb bike for its time.  Farkle it with modern parts and it's still a capable machine.  Hell, I own 2 of them, one since 1985.  Just don't kid yourself into thinking it is better than some of the modern stuff.  This is where you can talk about Josh Hayes on a FJ at Phillip Island......Not all monkeys are equal!   :biggrin:

I think sometimes folks forget that all these suspension, wheel, tyre and brake mods are not only about going faster but doing it easier. If you're game, you can ride your old pig at much the same speed as your modified one, it just takes a lot more nerve and a bit of luck.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50616197688_ccbe472bb9_b.jpg)

Stock standard FJ on Macadams and with the belly pan removed for the occasion (it was also the last time I rode with the centre stand fitted), turn 4- 5 Philip Island 2 days after Stoner and Rossi had battled it out, their rubber was still on the outside of the line. It was a great day, the weather had stopped them from packing up the motoGP infrastructure from raceday.

Two things surprised me that day, one, how well the FJ equipped itself in a field of all modern bikes and two, just how many exotic, expensive sports bikes are owned by the best outfitted wankers. They were full of stories of their high speed escapades and quick with excuses as to why they couldn't produce it on the day. Bullshitting about how fast you are just before hitting the race track is not a good idea, save it for the pub.

The FJ was the oldest of about 30 bikes there and I was surprised how much positive attention it got for it's performance.

I've poured a truck load of money into my bike to the point of I can't think of anything else to do to it, interestingly, I don't think it's any quicker, it's just way easier to ride fast and my sphincter gets a rest. As I've said many times here, I can steer it with my eyes, all day twisties flat out aren't even tiring, I just look where I want to go and it goes. Quick changes of direction, braking, bumps, nothing upsets it and you can't out lean the tyres, even with the rear raised. I also like it's small physical size.

I have an RT1200 which is in my opinion the best sports/touring bike in the world but there's not a day I ride it when I don't think how much better it would be with the late model FJ engine in it. That would literally make it the 100% perfect bike. I don't know of another in line 4 that has better performance attributes than the FJ for general all day, all conditions road work. I don't even like the BMW in line 4 for touring. a lot of the modern engines are peaky, buzzy, harsh and snatchy.

Noel


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: giantkiller on November 18, 2020, 09:07:30 AM
That's what I  figure. I love going way too fast. 38 broken bones  and 47 pieces of metal in me. Obviously my  skills must not be up to par.  So I need all the help from suspension brakes and tires I can get.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Motofun on November 18, 2020, 09:18:45 AM
I have 2 race prepped bikes, a '13 GSXR750 and a '18 GSXR1000R.  New suspensions, race exhausts, ECU tunes, race tires (pirelli), race plastic, clip ons, rear sets plus lots of other stuff.  I routinely get smoked by some young gun on a 600.  It could be old age or something else but it is for sure the quality of the rider on board.

All of this just my way of saying that the FJ is a capable bike.  It certainly deserves to be considered one of the best of its era.  Time marches on, however.  The new stuff is astounding in what it can do....given the proper pilot.  I know that that is not me....I just don't care.  I'm way faster on my race bikes on the track than I would be on either of my FJs though I've never tried to prove it.  Just as I'm sure Josh on his Phillip Island FJ would shame me all to hell and back.  Still don't care.

These kind of discussions are endless and pointless.  The race track, the dragon, the Cherahola skyway are all quite different.  What works one place as top dog goes lacking in another.  If I'm going to drag race I'll pick the XX over the FJ, The Cherahola?  Perhaps the FJ.  The Dragon?  My RZ350!   :wacko1:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: T Legg on November 18, 2020, 09:20:27 AM
Our fj's still get respect. I was out one night on an empty section section of highway one night cruising around eighty when I saw a set of headlights coming up behind me I increased my speed up to one hundred but the lights kept closing on me. I don't like having a racing car riding my ass so let the hopped up Honda car go by then sucked up behind him as we began ascending Washoe valley hill about a two mile curving grade to the crest where there is a turnoff to Washoe lake. I pushed the car all the way up the hill hitting about 125 mph before the car stopped accelerating. At the top we both slowed to take the turn to Washoe lake. That's when I saw the flashing red lights about a half mile down the hill coming our way. I took the turn and pulled off the road . I was thinking this is going to be bad. The sherriff finally made it up the hill and pulled in behind me. When he got out he said holy shit you guys were cooking through there. Then he asked me who was in the car that didn't stop. I was able to convince him the car had just come up behind me and I got carried away by the moment. He then told me he had been chasing the car for several miles and this was not the first time he had tried to catch that car. He looked at my bike and said that's an old bike how long have you been riding. After telling him fifty years he said maybe you can handle riding those speeds but anything can happen. He then thanked me for pulling over and explained it is against policy to engage in a high speed pursuit with a motorcycle and it wouldn't be fair to give me a ticket since he wasn't able to catch and ticket the car. I think I was saved by grey hair.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: JMR on November 18, 2020, 10:00:52 AM
My 86 fj1350r dynoed at 167hp 114 ftlbs. Weighs right at 500 pounds. Handles great. As I  said my neighbor. Who raced a 2008 gsxr 1000. Third in points three years in a row. Said it turns in better than his gsxr. I  spent  just over  $6500 total.  That includes  2008 gsxr inverted front end and wheels. Honda shock with eibach spring. Hank Scott built  motor. Digital  gauges. And  much more. Reliable.  Comfortable. Quick handling. Tones of power and torque. Great brakes. And has killed 2 deer and is still going stong. Best bike ever.... till I get the turbo bike done.
Thiose a great #'s especially the torque. My 87FJ 1314 dynoed at 156.7 RWHP and 93.2 Ft lbs. If I put cams over .400 lift in it I am sure it would pick up another 10HP. All engine mods are fairly straight forward NA engine tuning. The engine is still a pussy cat as it idles great (with FCR-39's) and cruises very smoothly. The great thing about more HP is you can put a small rear sprocket to reduce highway cruising RPM but it still pulls like a freight train and will wheelie upon command.
 You definitely need better brakes and suspension with the extra power.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: giantkiller on November 18, 2020, 11:45:52 AM
That's the dyno that Hank hooked it to. Obviously  crank. He  had built it to a 1314. And  i said that's not what we had discussed. I said I wanted 1350. I already have stickers made. He laughed. He said your only going to get a couple more horses.  So  he tore it back down and made it a 1350.
I kinda  freaked him out how much difference it made. I think it was 147hp and 96ftlbs 1314. Different cylinders  and used xjr rods.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: JMR on November 18, 2020, 02:37:27 PM
That's the dyno that Hank hooked it to. Obviously  crank. He  had built it to a 1314. And  i said that's not what we had discussed. I said I wanted 1350. I already have stickers made. He laughed. He said your only going to get a couple more horses.  So  he tore it back down and made it a 1350.
I kinda  freaked him out how much difference it made. I think it was 147hp and 96ftlbs 1314. Different cylinders  and used xjr rods.
The torque is nice.....that is just about stock Hayabusa torque. I love horsepower but tons on torque rules. I have ridden a Harley with over 130 lbs.....twisting that throttle at 70mph was fantastic despite it being a whale. :biggrin:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: giantkiller on November 18, 2020, 03:10:59 PM
Yah my chopper is 120hp 120 ftlbs.
Here's some gratuitous pictures of my chopper  and  what I  used to look like. I used to be  high torque too.  Now w just worn out.  Chopper still looks the same. (Hand built in my garage)


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: JMR on November 18, 2020, 10:47:06 PM
 Bikes often age better than us brother. My 75 CB750F..with over 106 RWHP.....looks WAY better than me now. :biggrin: Your bike actually looks functionally comfortable too.....nice work.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Millietant on November 19, 2020, 05:58:01 AM
Bikes often age better than us brother. My 75 CB750F..with over 106 RWHP.....looks WAY better than me now. :biggrin: Your bike actually looks functionally comfortable too.....nice work.

Wow, how did you get that power out of a SOHC Honda 750 - turbo ? Got any photo's....I love the old Honda SOHC 4's, all of them..........done a lot of time/miles on a CB 500F and a CB 650 Z


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: JMR on November 19, 2020, 07:19:55 AM
Bikes often age better than us brother. My 75 CB750F..with over 106 RWHP.....looks WAY better than me now. :biggrin: Your bike actually looks functionally comfortable too.....nice work.

Wow, how did you get that power out of a SOHC Honda 750 - turbo ? Got any photo's....I love the old Honda SOHC 4's, all of them..........done a lot of time/miles on a CB 500F and a CB 650 Z
The engine is NA...no turbo or nitrous. I produced billet blocks that allow the use of pistons up to 72mm (stock is 61mm) so that helps. :biggrin:  Heavy porting with a 5mm valve conversion kit too. Tight squish etc....just good engine building techniques and a generous amount of money used. I have to say it really surprises kids on 600's.
 My oldest son comes home today and I'll have him post a pic or 2. Here is a video   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0I5q8-3DGc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0I5q8-3DGc)      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FeFCLBcIg8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FeFCLBcIg8)


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: giantkiller on November 19, 2020, 09:58:41 AM
I was wondering the same thing. First bike I I rode was my dads cb750.
That's an awesome bike. Wow.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: JMR on November 19, 2020, 03:46:24 PM
I was wondering the same thing. First bike I I rode was my dads cb750.
That's an awesome bike. Wow.
Thanks fellas.....very much appreciated. I have owned her since early 1977 and she is affectionately known as "The Million Dollar CB". :biggrin:


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: Charlie-brm on November 19, 2020, 08:42:21 PM
Ha Ha!!! Great story. You brought back memories of my own encounter on a late night drive. I was in a car though. Keeping it brief, it's almost midnight, beautiful quiet road that skirts a lake area in Ontario (Hwy 7 Peterborough to Ottawa for reference).  I don't like people on my butt either so when I saw two pin pricks of light behind me I pressured the gas a tiny bit. Half a minute later the pin pricks are dots - a leeetle more gas. And so on. Now I conclude this vehicle is going to be on me unless I really goose it.

I'm glancing at the mirror and asking my self righteous mind, "Who the hell else would be out at night that deserves to be driving like.... (on come the flashing lights)....  Ohhhh, yeahh.

That was my first month with the new 2011 Hyundai Accent of all things. The most tickets I ever got for one vehicle driving since 1970 has been a 1500cc Toyota Tercel. Just that time in my life.

Our fj's still get respect. I was out one night on an empty section section of highway one night cruising around eighty when I saw a set of headlights coming up behind me I increased my speed up to one hundred but the lights kept closing on me. I don't like having a racing car riding my ass so let the hopped up Honda car go by then sucked up behind him as we began ascending Washoe valley hill about a two mile curving grade to the crest where there is a turnoff to Washoe lake. I pushed the car all the way up the hill hitting about 125 mph before the car stopped accelerating. At the top we both slowed to take the turn to Washoe lake. That's when I saw the flashing red lights about a half mile down the hill coming our way. I took the turn and pulled off the road . I was thinking this is going to be bad. The sherriff finally made it up the hill and pulled in behind me. When he got out he said holy shit you guys were cooking through there. Then he asked me who was in the car that didn't stop. I was able to convince him the car had just come up behind me and I got carried away by the moment. He then told me he had been chasing the car for several miles and this was not the first time he had tried to catch that car. He looked at my bike and said that's an old bike how long have you been riding. After telling him fifty years he said maybe you can handle riding those speeds but anything can happen. He then thanked me for pulling over and explained it is against policy to engage in a high speed pursuit with a motorcycle and it wouldn't be fair to give me a ticket since he wasn't able to catch and ticket the car. I think I was saved by grey hair.


Title: Re: FJ VRS Blackbird
Post by: woodcreekpete on November 27, 2020, 04:20:29 PM
The most vivid memory I have of my '98 Bird was a 300 mi. return trip suffering from a spirited bought of diarrhea . The squirrel riding position is not overly conducive to continence. I kept my distance from everyone on the ferry back to Vancouver Island. Great bike though!