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General Category => FJ Project Writeups => Topic started by: tmkaos on November 12, 2012, 02:25:04 PM



Title: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 12, 2012, 02:25:04 PM
Hi all,

A few of you have read and commented on my posts about my poor FJ's smoking and miss issues - thnks for that, guys. Read it here  http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7756.msg70410#msg70410 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7756.msg70410#msg70410)if you're so inclined it gives the background anyway.

I'm going to pull the motor down as she's done 140,000 kilometers, the last 30,000 of them with me, and I haven't given the old girl an easy time. Apart from the ring/or valve issues I currently have I feel over the last 21 years a few of the factory horses have escaped from the engine. There's a list of maintainenece items due as well so I figured I'll do them all at once.

Motor looks like shit - re paint it.
Service the motor mounts and add in grease nipples for the future.
Wheels bearings haven't been done since I bought her.
Tidy up some wiring and do the horn and headlight relays -just done the coil relays in an effort to sort the miss.
New battery.
Rear caliper seems to only be actuating 1 piston despite several bleeds.
My exhaust - a 4-1 of unknown origin - is rusty as shit so I will try to clean it up and paint it too.

I've put together a list of items I reckon I'm going to need to buy from RPM which so far is:

1 1200 Cylinder Head Gasket
1 Spin On Oil Filter Adapter
4 Exhaust Gasket
16 Valve Stem Seal
16 Valve Guides - need to check head  to see if I need oversize or not.
4 Yamaha Wrist Pin Cir-Clip
8 FJ Valve Cover Bolt Grommet
1 Brake Caliper Kit (1)  - Rear, it looks like only 1 piston is actuating
1 Four (4) Brush Starter Rebuild Kit
1 Engine Case Gasket Kit
1 Front Wheel Bearing & Seal Kit 84+
1 Nippon Denso Internal Regulator - battery hasn't been charging well recently
1 Performance Valve Spring Set
1 Rear Wheel Bearing & Seal Kit 91-01
Engine bearings too I guess - need to get a size off the journals

So far locally I have got a valve shim kit, and I'll be sourcing a battery too. I was lucky enough to get the CAD files from our friendly FJMonkey for the fork brace so I'm going to try and make one of those up too.

So I have a few questions for those of you with the time to help out, and the knowledge.

1. With these Km's, will I need to replace cam chain and tensioners too? How about the starter chain?

2. Do I need to order case o rings and dowels or are these usually salvagable when you split the cases - and how many of each? I believe it's 6 dowels, is it 6 o rings too?

3. Is the '92 the 4 brush starter or the 2 brush starter?

4. I'll be getting the valves re-lapped and replacing the springs while the head is off. I have access to a full machine shop, I'm a toolmaker by trade -is there any easy work I can do port-wise to cram some extra horses back inside the engine?

5. I'm adding in an oil pressure guage to compliment my oil temp -what's the pressure range I should see from idle to say 4000 rpm? Anything over those revs and I'm not going to be looking at instruments!

6. What have I missed that's obvious?  :good2:

The transmission and clutch seem fine - no slipping and no shift issues apart from it liking to be blipped on the downshift in the lower gears to avoid a hard clunk when the lower gear is engaged - propbably an oil and km's issue  (popcorn) I'll be going to the closest I can find to the Shell Rotella diesel oil.

Anyway, I'll try to take some pics as I take her apart, and keep you all informed as to how I go.

Happy riding,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on November 12, 2012, 02:51:53 PM

1. With these Km's, will I need to replace cam chain and tensioners too? How about the starter chain?


Hi James,

I rebuilt my motor (also a 92) from the ground up at 105k and it was in surprisingly good condition, but I did replace the chains even though the were serviceable under the theory that if I was in there why not.

Nothing worse that sitting in the shed wishing you had done it when you had the chance, I learn't that lesson with a VF400fd I rebuilt in a hurry :(

Regards,
Dave


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: fj11.5 on November 12, 2012, 04:31:24 PM
Starter should be four brush unit , unless po changed it to an early one


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 12, 2012, 06:40:24 PM
Starter should be four brush unit , unless po changed it to an early one
Cheers just wasn't 100% sure on that.  :good2:


Hi James,

I rebuilt my motor (also a 92) from the ground up at 105k and it was in surprisingly good condition, but I did replace the chains even though the were serviceable under the theory that if I was in there why not.

Nothing worse that sitting in the shed wishing you had done it when you had the chance, I learn't that lesson with a VF400fd I rebuilt in a hurry :(

Regards,
Dave

cheers Dave,I'm usually a do-it-once-do-it-right kind of guy but the more I add to the list from RPM the more the bank cringes.. and those parts are amongst the more expensive bits. We actually manufacture cam chain tensioner guides at work for the late 70's early 80's Honda CB750/1000's for racing use so I can get the material no problems to make my own guides to keep the cost down but it's the time involved to reverse engineer a set to remake them that is the issue..  :dash2:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: RichBaker on November 12, 2012, 08:31:53 PM
Hi all,



The transmission and clutch seem fine - no slipping and no shift issues apart from it liking to be blipped on the downshift in the lower gears to avoid a hard clunk when the lower gear is engaged - propbably an oil and km's issue  (popcorn) I'll be going to the closest I can find to the Shell Rotella diesel oil.

Anyway, I'll try to take some pics as I take her apart, and keep you all informed as to how I go.

Happy riding,

James


 This is normal, for any motorcycle I've ever ridden....


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on November 12, 2012, 08:42:16 PM


The transmission and clutch seem fine - no slipping and no shift issues apart from it liking to be blipped on the downshift in the lower gears to avoid a hard clunk when the lower gear is engaged - propbably an oil and km's issue  (popcorn) I'll be going to the closest I can find to the Shell Rotella diesel oil.

.

All bikes require blipping for smooth down changes, to any gear.

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 14, 2012, 06:33:04 PM
So I haven't been able to start on pulling the bike down yet - man, babies take up some time! Our little girl was 1 month old yesterday, bless her.. But in the mean time I've been figuring out what parts I'm likely to need. RPM has everything I'll need but the major issue is when it comes into the country I have to pay GST (Goods and Services Tax 15%) on it. Factor the exchange rate into it and it ramps up the cost a bit.
So far Randy can do me all the bits I'll want for US$650 including shipping. Covert that at about NZ$.081 to the greenback gets us NZ$801.97 plus the $197 duty I will have to pay according to NZ Customs gives me a total of NZ$998.97.

The local (st)dealers best effort for the same (factory) parts list comes to NZ$959.08. Here's their price list
PARTS YNZ 1WORK DAY
PARTS YAUS 3-4 WK DAYS
PARTS JAPAN 7 WORK DAYS.
SO 7 DAYS AT THE MOST
FOR WORK SHOP RATE CONTACT NICK 09 360-7710


GASKET,HEAD                    1             116.86
GASKET, EXHAUST PIPE      4               6.80EH
SEAL, VALVE STEM           16              7.80EH
CIRCLIP                            1              2.90EH
RUBBER GROMET                1              5.20EH
CALIPER SEAL KIT              1              48.18
BRUSH SET                       1             116.00
VALVE SPRING OUTER         1              19.90EH
VAVLE SPRING INNER          1              13.90EH
GASKET ENGINE RUBBER      1              38.70
GASKET ENGINE CASE         1              16.60
GASKET C/CASE                1              28.78
GASKET OIL STRAINER        1              51.43
GASKET TENSIONER           1               2.93
FT WHEEL BEARING KIT      1              25.00
REAR BEARING KIT             1              39.00


The interesting part is Randy's prices are cheaper across the board but it's the shipping international and tax at this end that kills it..

However since I really don't trust anybody ordering parts for my bike that wasn't even born when it rolled off the production line I think I'll end up going with RPM - spoke to parts guy at a yamaha agent this morning and he wasn't confidence inspiring - he needed the chassis designation and wanted me to give HIM the part numbers of the bits I needed, and sounded about 16. Seriously.

Bought the 1st item anyway, a Katana YTX12-BS battery. NZ$119. It's had a Yuasa YTX12-BS in it for the last 5 years and as I was impressed with it's longevity I wanted another.. The Yuasa was $190, and the Yuasa guy said Katana is built in the same factory. We pulled them both out of the boxes and had a look, be damned if I could tell the difference but unfortunately the sales guy didn't turn his back long enough fopr me to swap them. Oh well.  :good2:

Anyway, hopefully i'll get an hour or so tonight to start dismantling...

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: racerrad8 on November 14, 2012, 06:56:16 PM
RPM has everything I'll need but the major issue is when it comes into the country I have to pay GST (Goods and Services Tax 15%) on it. Factor the exchange rate into it and it ramps up the cost a bit.
 
So far Randy can do me all the bits I'll want for US$650 including shipping. Covert that at about NZ$.081 to the greenback gets us NZ$801.97 plus the $197 duty I will have to pay according to NZ Customs gives me a total of NZ$998.97.


GASKET,HEAD                    1             116.86
GASKET, EXHAUST PIPE      4               6.80EH
SEAL, VALVE STEM           16              7.80EH
CIRCLIP                            1              2.90EH
RUBBER GROMET                1              5.20EH
CALIPER SEAL KIT              1              48.18
BRUSH SET                       1             116.00
VALVE SPRING OUTER         1              19.90EH
VAVLE SPRING INNER          1              13.90EH
GASKET ENGINE RUBBER      1              38.70
GASKET ENGINE CASE         1              16.60
GASKET C/CASE                1              28.78
GASKET OIL STRAINER        1              51.43
GASKET TENSIONER           1               2.93
FT WHEEL BEARING KIT      1              25.00
REAR BEARING KIT             1              39.00


The interesting part is Randy's prices are cheaper across the board but it's the shipping international and tax at this end that kills it..

However since I really don't trust anybody ordering parts for my bike that wasn't even born when it rolled off the production line I think I'll end up going with RPM - spoke to parts guy at a yamaha agent this morning and he wasn't confidence inspiring - he needed the chassis designation and wanted me to give HIM the part numbers of the bits I needed, and sounded about 16. Seriously.

James

James,

I just sent you a PM regarding destination country duty taxes. (hint, hint)

Sorry I missed this topic at the onset, but now that I have given it a quick read, lets get together via email.

I can make sure you get everything you need for the engine the first time after you give me the full run down of what you are doing. There are small things no one thinks about until the need them, like the oil pump snap ring.

You will not need valve guides, but you will need seals.

And for $116.00 for a starter brush kit, you might as well spend an extra $20.00 and buy the new starter.

Randy - RPM


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 14, 2012, 07:28:27 PM
[

Sorry I missed this topic at the onset, but now that I have given it a quick read, lets get together via email.



Randy - RPM

Email sent - cheers Randy!


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 15, 2012, 02:41:49 PM
Ok so last night I started on pulling her down..

This is a shot of the #3 header pipe, you can see oil drips on the cooling fins, and oil leaking out from under the flange on the header itself. This is after a couple of minutes of warm up.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_15_11_12_2_30_40_4.jpeg)

Here's the area in general - I'm going to try and clean these headers up while they're off - the poor girl shows her km's..(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_15_11_12_2_30_40_3.jpeg)

Going to try to do a bit of a time lapse thing here.. we'll see how dedicated I can stay  :good2:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_15_11_12_2_30_38_0.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_15_11_12_2_30_39_1.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_15_11_12_2_30_39_2.jpeg)


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FeralJuggernaut on November 15, 2012, 10:27:08 PM
I think I am about 20 work hours ahead of you in a very similiar project mode...   I am down to the motor clean up part.  Slow going for me personally, a lot of elbow work.  I don't have easy access to a parts dip or sand blaster rig, hence the slowness.    My Mistress is at 112k miles.   I had the motor out at about 65k for some tranny work.   I didn't notice until last week that after getting through the first 2 layers of oil/road/muck/debris that you can actually see between the cylinders!   I am embarassed to admit that, but if it helps you or just one lurker, I'll feel redeemed!   In my partial defense, I picked up the bike just under 60k miles so it was clogged before me and I had never dug that deep in the cleaning routine.   This go around I am doing the top end and so I had just the barrels in hand and finally figured it out.    :flag_of_truce:    I found half the rings frozen and all of the oil scrappers frozen.   Lots of the 'baked oil' residues to clean up...   I've been using PB blaster, Simple Green and kerosene as cleaning solvents and a variety of scrubbing and scraping devices.  I'd recommend a bike lift if you have the means.   I had a coupon for the harbor freight lift at $288 dollars and wish I had done that a decade earlier!   When you are ready to drop the lump, put a 2x4 (or two) under your center stand unless you can rig a way to lift up the frame.  Your riding buddy for an afternoon would be a good idea too for extra hands, just sayin.   Let me encourage you to keep the pictures up and going.   Reason?  I started my disassembly about 2 years ago.  Yea, kids, life, whatever excuses inserted here, the picts may just help you on the rebuild later.  IJKOK   Stay organized and make sure you have storage place setup before pulling bits off too far.   Zip lock baggies and a sharpie have saved my ride and sanity.   Keep up the good fight!   We're cheering for you, you can do it!   Send more picts!  :D 


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 16, 2012, 01:42:07 AM
Cheers, Mr Juggernaut  :good2:

Encouragement is all good.  :good2: My motivation for getting this done reasonably speedily is the bike is my primary transport. I can ride a push-bike to work if the weather is fair but aside from that, the wife and baby have our stationwagon as their car and I have the bike. I have been loaned a Smart Car to get me around for a while, but honestly, I lose credits from my Man-Card every time I jump in it. I'm 6"2' and about 240lbs and I fill that car up. Although I have to say in it's defense, once the baby turbo spools up, it's the little car that could.  :yahoo:

I'm planning on using a block and tackle from a roof joist in the garage to get the bike up higher when I drop out the motor, with the rear wheel removed, should allow it to pivot on the centre stand enough and stay stable. We'll figure it out when the time comes. Neccessity is the mother of invention, after all.  :good2:

This weekend should allow me to make some more progress - I want to try to drop the motor with it as complete as possible, I'm going to use the steam cleaner at work to give it a blast, it has 140,000km worth of crap caked on the block. After I've done that I'll strip it on the bench and carry on cleaning while I work out what needs doing to it.

Trying to stay away from splitting the cases if possible.

Luckily I'm an engineer so I have access to a full CNC workshop.. Think I might need it.  :bomb: poor old girl.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 16, 2012, 09:31:11 PM
So the weather was shit here today and I managed to fit in a couple of hours..

Here is my phat ride at the moment.. :bad: Oh the shame of it...
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_16_11_12_9_13_27_0.jpeg)

Pulled off the lower cowl and exhaust. That lower cowl is held together by a wish and a prayer. I glued and screwed ali plates all over the inside of it to keep the ears on and drilled all the cracks to stop them spreading about 5,000km's ago..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_16_11_12_9_13_30_1.jpeg)

Here's my 2 exhaust options.. Super-loud Kerker type (I think it's a cheap chinese rip-off, was on the bike when I bought it.) and my quiet cruising exhaust, from 2001 CB1300. Easy install for anyone interested, mount lines up with rear footpeg perfectly.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_16_11_12_9_13_31_2.jpeg)

These are the rusty headers, don't know who made them. Any clues? I'll try to either sand them and paint or maybe sandblast them then paint.. they're pretty far gone.Llook at all the oil on them from the external leak and another teaspoon dripped out of the inside too. Yuck.  :negative:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_16_11_12_9_13_34_3.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_16_11_12_9_13_38_4.jpeg)

Carbs are out.. Please excuse my bad habit of leaving the spanner on top of the battery..  :negative: it is actually disconnected, not that that will matter if the spanner shorts it..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_16_11_12_9_13_42_5.jpeg)

Rear caliper is off, needs a rebuild too while we're here, and the footpeg and bottom plate - what do you call that bit? - is off. beginning to see how the motor attaches to the frame now.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_16_11_12_9_13_49_7.jpeg)

Have another crack at it tomorrow.

Enjoy your weekend!

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 17, 2012, 10:00:08 PM
Ok, so back in the garage this afternoon while baby and wifey were having a well deserved snooze.. No rest for us tinkerers, however.. :morning1:

So I pulled off the oil cooler, LH side peg and kick plate, oil filter housing, clutch slave and sprocket cover. Various other wiring hangups removed from my oil temp and pressure senders, carb heat shield taken out and all the wiring plugs on top of the gearbox undone..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_17_11_12_9_50_46_0.jpeg)

But the old girl decided to kick me in the nuts on last time..  These 2 capscrews, either side are both frozen SOLID, and the heads have rounded off, the Aluminium Yamaha used for these must been made from recycled slag.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_17_11_12_9_50_46_1.jpeg)

I've sprayed some CRC onto them, try again tomorrow. If all else fails it's back to the Australian Spanner - otherwise known as an angle grinder. Take the heads off and deal with them that way. Not elegant, but effective.

Tomorrow I'm taking various sundry parts I've removed into work to run through our parts cleaner. The sprocket cover was horrendous inside.. it was also missing a bolt, on the lower side at the back. Must have vibrated out.

Everywhere I look on this bike I see ali parts screaming for some polish and a bit of TLC.. Gotta resist the temptation otherwise I'll just add another 20 or 30 hours onto this job..


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on November 18, 2012, 12:45:08 AM
mate I had the same issue, cut a slot in the head, heat, an impact driver and lots of  :dash2:



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on November 18, 2012, 09:07:28 AM

But the old girl decided to kick me in the nuts on last time..  These 2 capscrews, either side are both frozen SOLID, and the heads have rounded off, the Aluminium Yamaha used for these must been made from recycled slag.

I've sprayed some CRC onto them, try again tomorrow. If all else fails it's back to the Australian Spanner - otherwise known as an angle grinder. Take the heads off and deal with them that way. Not elegant, but effective.


I work on old cars, ie. 70, 80, 90 years old, many haven't been touched for decades and many have been poorly stored.

Of all my bolt freeing tricks, my favourite is a solid belt, or several, with a big hammer.  It breaks the seal, and in the case of a philips head or hex head it closes up the head a bit and makes the tool a tighter fit.  My next favourite is the oxy torch if the location allows you to get a lot of heat into the bolt fairly quickly.

Another thing that works on those button head hex bolts is the short allen keys that fit on your socket set, takes all the spring out of the tool, and repeatedly hit it with a hammer while applying force on the socket bar.

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Arnie on November 18, 2012, 09:15:27 AM
Ribbert said, "Of all my bolt freeing tricks, my favourite is a solid belt, or several, with a big hammer.  It breaks the seal, and in the case of a philips head or hex head it closes up head a bit and makes the tool a tighter fit.  My next favourite is the oxy torch if the location allows you to get a lot of heat into the bolt fairly quickly.

Another thing that works on those button head hex bolts is the short allen keys that fit on your socket set, takes all the spring out of the tool, and repeatedly hit it with a hammer while applying force on the socket bar."

Noel,

Those are all good suggestions, but sometimes they just don't work. :-(
I tried them all (except the oxy) on the bolts holding the right footplate to the bike so I could replace the rear brake switch.  2 of the 3 rounded the socket and I ended up drilling and replacing them.  Took me 3 hrs to complete a (should have been) 5 min job.

Arnie


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 18, 2012, 12:01:12 PM
Cheers guys, I tried all of those tricks yesterday apart from heat, I have no oxy set at home. That's why the head on that one I'm pointing to is a bit shiny from multiple love taps from a hammer..  :dash2:

If the penetration oil doesn't work I might drill the centre out and try a small Ezy-out..

That yamaha factory thread lock has some bloody grip doesn't it? Came across the same stuff on the capscrews holding the rotors onto the front wheel.

Cheers,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: andyb on November 18, 2012, 12:26:58 PM
Heat is the answer.  Doesn't need to be oxy hot, or even map hot.  Propane or butane is fine.  A really good heat gun could maybe even swing it (wouldn't know, don't own one).  Heat it up like you mean it, and the threadlock turns to dust.

My rule of thumb is I don't drill anything unless I can get it clamped in a vise and ensure things are dead square before removing metal.  Means I reach for a torch pretty regularly, but I've stopped screwing things up nearly as bad as I once did.



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Pat Conlon on November 18, 2012, 12:41:07 PM
Not uncommon ......Soak 'em, heat 'em and Drill a hole in them and use a easy out


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Thmsdoyle on November 18, 2012, 12:47:04 PM
Put a little heat to the bolts with a little propane torch. Then use a chisel and your favorite hammer. Go straight into the bolt head with chisel and give it a good wrap a couple times. Enough to put a groove on one side of the bolt head. Then if you have a dull chisel use it, place dull chesil at a 30 to 45 degree angle on bolt head groove. Give it a good wrap several times to see If that helps loosen the bolts. Works 80% of the time for me.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on November 18, 2012, 04:05:33 PM
lol I only have access to propane, which is probaly a good thing  :good2:

thats enough heat got get most things warm enough to soak up some wd40 as it cools.



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: oldktmdude on November 18, 2012, 04:17:18 PM
  Another good way of heating is by welding a nut or short bolt to the head of the bolt your'e trying to loosen. Using a small gauge welding electrode makes the job a lot easier. I would also use a stainless steel electrode, as this gives a stronger weld for its size compared to mild steel.    Pete.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on November 18, 2012, 05:31:17 PM
lol I only have access to propane, which is probaly a good thing  :good2:

thats enough heat got get most things warm enough to soak up some wd40 as it cools.



Propane unfortunately is not hot enough or fast enough and the heat dissipates into the surrounding metal at the much the same rate as it goes into the bolt.

The idea is to heat the bolt at a much faster rate than the surrounding metal causing it to expand then contract as it cools, breaking the lock but it only works with the serious sort of heat you get with oxy.

I have tried a propane torch in the field and found it to be about as effective as a magnifying glass in the sun for this purpose.

Noel



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJmonkey on November 18, 2012, 05:44:42 PM
lol I only have access to propane, which is probaly a good thing  :good2:

thats enough heat got get most things warm enough to soak up some wd40 as it cools.



Propane unfortunately is not hot enough or fast enough and the heat dissipates into the surrounding metal at the much the same rate as it goes into the bolt.

The idea is to heat the bolt at a much faster rate than the surrounding metal causing it to expand then contract as it cools, breaking the lock but it only works with the serious sort of heat you get with oxy.

I have tried a propane torch in the field and found it to be about as effective as a magnifying glass in the sun for this purpose.

Noel
If you are just fighting the thread lock then any heat will help soften it. Impact drivers/guns are my first choice and have yet to let me down get stubborn stuff loose.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 18, 2012, 06:17:33 PM
I don't have access to any heat source at home, so I'll rely on my proper engineering skills (NZ Certificate in Beating and Bashing, Level 4) No seriously, I'll get it out. Remove the head, drill the bolt and try an Ezy-out. If the thread gets damaged I'll helicoil it. I'm confident enough in my manual dexterity that I can drill a hole straight. It's what I do all day, after all. This is what i run at work, a Haas VF3 milling machine with an optional 4th axis - set up at the moment, I'm making cutterheads for sawmills at the moment.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_18_11_12_6_12_30.jpeg)

So while it was running this morning I cleaned up the sprocket cover and pulled apart the clutch slave and cleaned that out.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_18_11_12_5_59_56_0.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_18_11_12_5_59_56_1.jpeg)
Anybody know the reason for the steel insert on the inside of the sprocket cover? my best guess is either to stop a runaway sprocket chewing out thru the cover into my foot, or some sort of vibration damper.

I did rebuild this slave about 5000 km ago so it looks ok. Swiped the bore and piston with some 800grit, cleaned the seals back out and reassembled, good to go.

I also pulled the rear caliper apart. Holy jesus those pistons where stuck in there good. The outer piston on the side where the brake line goes in was so solid I had to bolt it to my bench, and get a grease nipple and use our portable hypraulic unit to get it out. Took 150PSI on the guage before it moved.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_18_11_12_5_59_57_2.jpeg)
Seals were full of shit, pistons had a thick build up of crunk. I imagine my rear brake is going to feel a bit better now.



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on November 18, 2012, 09:12:41 PM
lol I only have access to propane, which is probaly a good thing  :good2:

thats enough heat got get most things warm enough to soak up some wd40 as it cools.



Propane unfortunately is not hot enough or fast enough and the heat dissipates into the surrounding metal at the much the same rate as it goes into the bolt.

The idea is to heat the bolt at a much faster rate than the surrounding metal causing it to expand then contract as it cools, breaking the lock but it only works with the serious sort of heat you get with oxy.

I have tried a propane torch in the field and found it to be about as effective as a magnifying glass in the sun for this purpose.

Noel




Noel,

NSW propane kicks Victroian propane's ass any day of the week  :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:

but when its all you got its all you got :) and so far it's worked for me :good2:


Regards,
Dave


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 18, 2012, 11:09:16 PM
Another hour or so after work today..  Sorry if this is boring you all stupid but it's as much to keep me going than anything else..  :good2:

Rear wheel out..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_18_11_12_10_56_53_0.jpeg)

Removed the dog-bones and lower suspension shock joint assembly. There appears to be some sort of attachment or adjustment through on the far left that goes through to the bottom of motor - it's so crusty under there it's hard to say..You can see it just beside the chain.  Anybody confirm or deny that?
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_18_11_12_10_56_54_1.jpeg)

Swing arm and chain out. I cleaned the swing arm bearings out about 1000km ago so it was good to see all the grease still fresh and clean in there. I'll take it all into work and clean it all back out again though.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_18_11_12_10_56_54_2.jpeg)

Front engine mounts removed. Have to service these while they are out. I'll add in the grease nipples while I'm there. She's a bit vibratey around 3000rpm so this should fix that.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_18_11_12_10_56_55_3.jpeg)

Those frozen capscrews aren't shifting after some more beating and CRC so it's on to plan B, Ezy-out.



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: RichBaker on November 19, 2012, 01:25:52 AM
Cheers guys, I tried all of those tricks yesterday apart from heat, I have no oxy set at home. That's why the head on that one I'm pointing to is a bit shiny from multiple love taps from a hammer..  :dash2:

If the penetration oil doesn't work I might drill the centre out and try a small Ezy-out..

That yamaha factory thread lock has some bloody grip doesn't it? Came across the same stuff on the capscrews holding the rotors onto the front wheel.

Cheers,

James

 Get some left-hand drill bits, lots of times, the bolt will unscrew itself as you're drilling it.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on November 19, 2012, 02:31:04 AM
Sorry if this is boring you all stupid but it's as much to keep me going than anything else..  :good2:

mate we have all been through this and to be honest I look forward to seeing what your doing, keep up the pictures and the words.   :yahoo:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on November 19, 2012, 03:07:30 AM

Removed the dog-bones and lower suspension shock joint assembly. There appears to be some sort of attachment or adjustment through on the far left that goes through to the bottom of motor - it's so crusty under there it's hard to say..You can see it just beside the chain.  Anybody confirm or deny that?
Those frozen capscrews aren't shifting after some more beating and CRC so it's on to plan B, Ezy-out.



That nut and bolt you mention has a rubber head on the othe side and the bottom of the crankcase rests against it.

I don't like ezy-outs. I reckon on average I've seen more snapped off in the screw than I have succeed, particularly of you using it because the bolts too tight to loosen with its own head.

At this point the difficulty factor just multiplied by a factor of about a hundred.

If you insist on using them, use the square or fluted ones, not the tapered spiral ones and use the biggest one you possibly can.

If you reckon this is a pain in the arse, try snapping one off in the hole!

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: flips on November 19, 2012, 03:21:25 AM
  Another good way of heating is by welding a nut or short bolt to the head of the bolt your'e trying to loosen. Using a small gauge welding electrode makes the job a lot easier. I would also use a stainless steel electrode, as this gives a stronger weld for its size compared to mild steel.    Pete.
+1 on welding.Heats up the stuck bolt/screw and gives you something decent to wrench it with.I use a small mig welder.Works every time for me  :yes:.


Cheers  :drinks:

Jeff P


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 19, 2012, 03:24:23 AM

That nut and bolt you mention has a rubber head on the othe side and the bottom of the crankcase rests against it.

I don't like ezy-outs. I reckon on average I've seen more snapped off in the screw than I have succeed, particularly of you using it because the bolts too tight to loosen with its own head.

At this point the difficulty factor just multiplied by a factor of about a hundred.

If you reckon this is a pain in the arse, try snapping one off in the hole!

Noel

Hi Noel, thanks for clarifying that. It's just an adjuster, then? I have access to carbide tooling, so machining out broken taps and hardened steel parts is pretty much an everyday event. Getting the frame into my machine might be the tricky bit but everything is achievable with patience and thought.  :good2:

Sorry if this is boring you all stupid but it's as much to keep me going than anything else..  :good2:

mate we have all been through this and to be honest I look forward to seeing what your doing, keep up the pictures and the words.   :yahoo:

Cheers buddy, i'll try to keep it going.  :good2:

James



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on November 19, 2012, 03:24:48 AM
Sorry if this is boring you all stupid but it's as much to keep me going than anything else..  :good2:


It's easy to forget amongst all the banter, ribbing, humour, socialising, bragging, lying and general bonhomie amongst the members, that this is the primary purpose of the forum, to help each other.

Unless your name is "Irish down on your luck" and you want to argue with every single bit of advice offered, it will keep coming.  We were all new to FJ's at some point.  Post away!

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on November 19, 2012, 03:33:08 AM
Noel,

NSW propane kicks Victroian propane's ass any day of the week  :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:

but when its all you got its all you got :) and so far it's worked for me :good2:


Regards,
Dave

Soooo, NSW / VIC rivalry has come to this has it?

"My flame's bigger than yours!"

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on November 19, 2012, 04:29:42 AM

Soooo, NSW / VIC rivalry has come to this has it?

"My flame's bigger than yours!"

Noel


 :lol: who me


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 19, 2012, 11:43:02 AM
If all else fails it's back to the Australian Spanner - otherwise known as an angle grinder.

To be honest guys, I really thought I'd get a least a token rise out of at least one of you Aussies...  :blum1: (popcorn) 
But nothing..  Guess it got buried in all the My-gas-is-better-than-yours drivel. Everybody knows that NZ has the best flavour LPG/Propane/Butane in the world.  (popcorn)

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJmonkey on November 19, 2012, 11:47:12 AM
To be honest guys, I really thought I'd get a least a token rise out of at least one of you Aussies...  :blum1: (popcorn) 
But nothing..  Guess it got buried in all the My-gas-is-better-than-yours drivel. Everybody knows that NZ has the best flavour LPG/Propane/Butane in the world.  (popcorn)

James
Must be quality stuff from all the sheep.  :crazy:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on November 19, 2012, 02:02:23 PM
If all else fails it's back to the Australian Spanner - otherwise known as an angle grinder.

To be honest guys, I really thought I'd get a least a token rise out of at least one of you Aussies...  :blum1: (popcorn) 
But nothing..  Guess it got buried in all the My-gas-is-better-than-yours drivel. Everybody knows that NZ has the best flavour LPG/Propane/Butane in the world.  (popcorn)

James

James,

I suspect with out prejudice that everybody (but not me of course  :rofl2:) has used said spanner at some time on some obstinate part, thats why the silence  :yes:


I keep mine next to my favorite 4lb hammer, 20 inch shifter and my beloved no3 Phillips head screwdriver  :sarcastic:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 19, 2012, 02:44:20 PM
Again this morning my boss will be so happy with me, as my machine is running I'm skivving off and working on FJ parts..

Cleaned up the oil cooler lines with some Scotch-Pad. Shiny, who knew?  :good2:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_19_11_12_2_34_02_0.jpeg)

Pulled out all the roller bearings out of this bit, de-gunked them and re-greased and assembled. Resisted the temptation to polish this bit too.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_19_11_12_2_34_03_1.jpeg)

Now a quick dog-bone question. What's the standard length for a '92? I've heard you should raise the rear end until the rear tyre is just off the ground on the centre stand. well mine only just clears, there's about 15mm under it, and my dog-bones are 125mm centre to centre.  i should clarify, it's running stock shock,and standard rim.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_19_11_12_2_42_21.jpeg)


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: The General on November 19, 2012, 03:23:42 PM
Yep, that`s standard length. (I won`t tell ya what I just measured it with  - Ya sheep might start swimm`n across the ditch)   
Ummmm...Vernier Calipers and a big shifter.   If my stillson`s dont get it, I just use an Aussie spanner!
Be careful with that Scotchbrite - doesn`t work on everything......and it can cause an itch.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 19, 2012, 03:37:39 PM
Cheers Doug.  :good2:
I won't bother making any new ones then.  :good: Swing arm is all cleaned up and ready to go back home and join the FJ in the garage.

Yeah that's a 24" adjustable spanner.. I'm mounting these sawmill cutters on a 50mm mandrel, the spanner is for the nut on the end of the mandrel, it's a 50 x 1mm thread, they need to be tight so they don't slip while I machine them.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: The General on November 19, 2012, 04:29:09 PM
Just another thought mate. I think me thoery is right (but questionable.  (popcorn) ). I found slight wear on the chain side (naturally) in the swing arm, but only inside the long bush that`s the width of the swingarm point. Us`n me noggin I reckoned if I reversed it, might take up at least half of that ever so slight free play. Seemed to work unbeleivably. - can`t feel any play at all - but admittedly more grease now. (if I didn`t feel it for meself I wouldn`ve beleived it! - we do that a lot)
Will replace bearings & Bush next time when I`m finished with some existing (Ohlims) shock spring experimenting and will then get the swing arm ceramicked or chromed, cause it makes it easier to clean.
Interestingly there was no wear on the swingarm Bolt. Theoreticall Ya shouldn`t get any wear on the inside diameter of that Bush (me thinks) - so will be checking other tolerances. Apart from telling me I should replace all bearings etc while I`m there, I`d be interested ta hear other`s thoughts.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 19, 2012, 04:41:01 PM
I found slight wear on the chain side (naturally) in the swing arm, but only inside the long bush that`s the width of the swingarm point. Us`n me noggin I reckoned if I reversed it, might take up at least half of that ever so slight free play.

Interestingly there was no wear on the swingarm Bolt. Theoreticall Ya shouldn`t get any wear on the inside diameter of that Bush (me thinks) - so will be checking other tolerances. Apart from telling me I should replace all bearings etc while I`m there, I`d be interested ta hear other`s thoughts.

I found pretty much the same. The bearings felt fine, before I took it all off the bike I gave it all a damn good wiggle to see if I could detect any play in the swingarm, and there's none. So I've just cleaned them, made sure they all rotated freely, packed them with fresh grease and reversed the inner tube just like you did. Because the bearings aren't in a high speed rotating application, in my humble opinion I didn't feel the need to replace them unless I could detect damage or wear on them.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FeralJuggernaut on November 19, 2012, 11:47:15 PM
Stop with the polishing bits!!   It is bad enough that I have an '84 and only live a few hundred miles away from Paddy...       :good:   I've heard that if you polish too much you can't get a good photo out in the sunlight.   muwhahahahaha


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Dan Filetti on November 20, 2012, 10:39:16 AM
Stop with the polishing bits!!   I've heard that if you polish too much you can't get a good photo out in the sunlight you'll go blind.   Is it any wonder Paddy wears glasses?

There.  I fixed it for ya.

Dan


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on November 20, 2012, 04:24:31 PM
I polished my fork lowers and they do look great but they are a real pain in the arse to keep polished properly.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: craigo on November 20, 2012, 06:09:05 PM
I just wax mine and it keeps them nice. Then all the debris just wipes off.

CraigO


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 20, 2012, 06:12:44 PM
So I sent off an email today to get a quote to get my headers coated, there's a couple of companies that do ceramic and other coatings locally. If it's not too much i'll get them done, look a lot better than any polish or paint job I could do. But honestly anything is going to look better than this..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_20_11_12_6_05_09_0.jpeg)

Cleaned up my rear sets today, I'd actually bent the brake lever from trying to use that rear caliper while it was jammed, must have been putting a lot more force into than I realised..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_20_11_12_6_05_10_1.jpeg)

After..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_20_11_12_6_05_10_2.jpeg)

The kick plates have been clear coated and this is coming off making them look all speckled, don't know if I'll go down the road of stripping the clear and polishing or just leave them be..
Hopefully I'll be at the stage of trying to drop the motor either tonight or next week, away for this weekend so nothing will happen till next week..


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 21, 2012, 04:32:12 PM
Our little baby required all of our attention last night so the FJ was neglected.. Got an email back from ProCoat, they want $220 plus tax to coat the headers and pipe that goes with my loud muffler. Damn it would look good though, here's what it would come out like http://www.procoat.co.nz/cermakrome.htm (http://www.procoat.co.nz/cermakrome.htm)
That's a little over what I was able to spend on that part of the rebuild so i guess it's back to rust removal and paint. Started cleaning them up today..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_21_11_12_4_30_46_0.jpeg)
Rust is pretty thick but I guess they won't look too bad in black.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 27, 2012, 12:06:10 PM
Managed to get back in the garage again last night for another hour, spent most of trying to remove the frozen capscrews in the rear of the lower frame rails. Damn, those babies are TIGHT. Ended up cutting a slot in them and trying an impact driver - no go, the bit just smears the head of the capscrew around. Went to use my Australian Spanner (angle grinder) and realised that I've somehow managed to lose the nut that captures the grinding disc onto the shaft. This is SO unlike me I'm usually anal about keeping stuff together. So that was a wasted hour. Just as I'd worked myself up to maximum self-flagellation mode, the baby moniter went nuts as my little daughter telepathically sensed my mood from inside the house (wife had taken the opportunity to do some grocery shopping) So Then I had to calm myself down, calm her down, and then I'd run out of time to work on the bike.
Thank god for Scotch, 2 fingers of a 15yr old Genfiddich in a tumbler and everything looked better.  :drinks:

I'm so close to dropping the motor out now, those damn capscrews are the only thing holding me up. My Ezy-out set doesn't actually have one small enough to do the job, I forgot that it went missing a few years ago.. So I'll grind the heads off and the frame rails should stretch over the rest of the thread, and I can remove the thread from the tapped hole in the frame. If I can get the motor out soon, then it means hopefully I can find out whether it's just the head that needs work or whether I'm doing new pistons as well. I'm also aware that Xmas is creeping ever closer and it'd be good to get my order to Randy to avoid all the shipping delays that crop up at that time..


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 28, 2012, 03:40:54 AM
So we made some real progress tonight.. I realised that the lower frame rails didn't actually need to come out. With the bike on a 4x4 I could rotate them far enough down to get the motor out.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_28_11_12_3_27_34_3.jpeg)

So I threw the jack under the motor and removed the the rear engine mount bolt - and my god that was seized too.. Nearly rounded the 14mm head of the bolt off.. but it did come out..
I reckoned with a bit of wiggling I could lower the motor clear of the frame and pull it out balanced on the jack.. Well that was the plan.. :dash1:

So I wiggled, and lowered and wiggled and lowered and wiggled, and then the motor dropped off the jack, I wasn't strong enough to hold it, and the bike fell over followed very shortly by the motor.

FARK.  :mad: :ireful: :negative:

Looks like I got away with it. No damage to the bike, it fell on the seats I had stacked next to it. The motor dropped slowly enough to take out the shock of the concrete and I had lino down as well which helped.

DONE!
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_28_11_12_3_27_33_1.jpeg)

Greasy little beast...
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_28_11_12_3_27_32_0.jpeg)

So I had to get a mate to help me lift it onto the bench, I could pick it up but not high enough to get it on the bench. Now the pull down begins. Watch this space...

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Arnie on November 28, 2012, 06:56:58 AM
Well, at least you know the rear frame rail bolts are not snapped. :-/
Now that the engine is out of the way, you might want to start soaking any and all chassis bolts that haven't been moved since the bike was built, in Acetone and ATF mix.
If you could have removed those frame rails, its fairly easy to lower the engine on a jack and then you and a helper can lift the rest of the bike up and away.
So many things you'll know next time :-)

Arnie


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 28, 2012, 12:33:54 PM

If you could have removed those frame rails, its fairly easy to lower the engine on a jack and then you and a helper can lift the rest of the bike up and away.
So many things you'll know next time :-)

Arnie


Yeah Arnie, I realise that my removal method was sub-optimal at best, but time and tide wait for no man, and I need to get this done. I'm more used to pulling out V8's with a block and tackle.
I should have waited til I could have had a mate around to help. Then it would have gone sweet as, but I was impatient..  :sorry:

I'm thinking if i can get another 140,000km out of the motor then next time won't be for a while!  :good2:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: oldktmdude on November 28, 2012, 04:19:09 PM
   Partly stripping the engine, whilst still in the frame (removing head and cylinder block) makes the job a lot easier if you are doing it by yourself. I have re-installed one by myself but a second person makes it a whole lot easier. I probably should have suggested this earlier but you were too quick for me.  Pete.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 28, 2012, 04:46:28 PM
   Partly stripping the engine, whilst still in the frame (removing head and cylinder block) makes the job a lot easier if you are doing it by yourself. I have re-installed one by myself but a second person makes it a whole lot easier. I probably should have suggested this earlier but you were too quick for me.  Pete.

I did consider this Pete, but as I've never been into these engines before, I thought I'm better off doing on the bench where I can get better access to it. Also I was worried about how tight all the bolts and studs would be after the trouble I've had with some of the frame ones, and I reckon i'll be able to attach the motor to my bench and get better purhase on my tools.
But next time for sure it's 100% an option once I know what I'm up for.  :good2:

Cheers,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 30, 2012, 12:32:37 AM
So I think I may have found a "potential" cause for the issues that made me pull the motor..  Got the valve cover off tonight,
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_29_11_12_11_31_39_1.jpeg)

Everything in here looks great actually considering the km's, and there is about 1.5mm wear on the upper cam chain guide which I didn't think excessive
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_29_11_12_11_31_39_0.jpeg)

But, when I pulled the sparkplugs, I found lo-and-behold, a whole bunch of little gravel stones sitting in the sparkplug recess. I changed the plugs when I did the carbs about a month ago, and it was pretty bad light over the bike I didn't even try to look down there, I wound the old ones out and put the new ones in. There was actually a stone trapped under the #3 sparkplug, I'd obviously tightened up the sparkplug onto it. You can see it clearly here.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_29_11_12_11_31_40_2.jpeg)

 If it had a mate sitting there next to it, I bet when I pulled the sparkplug and put the next one in, at least one of those stones might have fallen in. The miss and oil leak started after I had pulled the carbs and I naturally initially thought I'd done something wrong in the carbs.

I wonder if when I get the head off I'll see damage from a stone bouncing around in there.

Only time will tell.  :sorry:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Arnie on November 30, 2012, 09:52:21 AM
tmkaos,

While its certainly possible, hope that's not the case.  Its not the bouncing that causes most of the damage, but the scraping of the cylinder wall when the stone(s) get caught between the piston and the liner.  You could have some deep gouges.

Too late for you, but its a good idea to always blow all the crap out of the spark plug recess with compressed air before you pull the plugs.

Arnie


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 30, 2012, 01:48:24 PM
Yeah Arnie i think I'll have to do that from now on. Damn NZ roads, range from this
(http://www.rolfhickerphotography.com/images/600/scenic-road-852.jpg)

which is awesome if you are capable of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkZj3Ti-rHg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkZj3Ti-rHg)

to normal tarmac.

Anyway, the only compressed air I have access to at home comes from either one of my orifices..  :bad:  :good2:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJmonkey on November 30, 2012, 02:03:34 PM
Then use a shop vacuum with a small nozzle to get down into the pocket. Get a stiff brush down in there first and knock all the stuff loose, then suck it all out...


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: racerrad8 on November 30, 2012, 02:08:09 PM
So I think I may have found a "potential" cause for the issues that made me pull the motor..  
([url]http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_29_11_12_11_31_40_2.jpeg[/url])

 If it had a mate sitting there next to it, I bet when I pulled the sparkplug and put the next one in, at least one of those stones might have fallen in. The miss and oil leak started after I had pulled the carbs and I naturally initially thought I'd done something wrong in the carbs.

I wonder if when I get the head off I'll see damage from a stone bouncing around in there.


I use compressed air to blow out all of the debris before pulling the plugs, heck I do it before pull the valve cover as well. Just for the reason, rocks, dirt & bugs are down in the head after removing the side scoops.

Randy - RPM


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 30, 2012, 02:19:06 PM
I never even thought that that much debris would get up there but on closer inspection there was all kinds of crap in the fins, 3 ciggy butts, a small nut and washer, stones, a etemologists (bug lover? spelling?) wet dreams with all the various NZ flying insects, some dried grass and feathers. I guess those scoops do an admirable job of delivering air, and whatever maybe floating in it, to the heads. I do distinctly remember occasions where when lane-feeding, drivers or passengers would flick their butts out the windows just as I passed, and a couple of times I've thought "That one's got me"..


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: andyb on November 30, 2012, 04:49:57 PM
And once it's clean and the plugs are out, you cover the damned holes by whatever means before do much as blinking rapidly above.

That's how you avoid learning that the screws for the throttle linkage fit down those plug holes, and subsequently how to r/r the head to remove a screw from the chamber.

(In fairness, I had to retime the cams and found some power, as the slotted sprockets were either set improperly or there had been some camchain stretch in under 10k miles.)


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Pat Conlon on December 01, 2012, 01:53:35 AM
  Wise advice Andy. Gary Mastro (Gazza) had that same accident. A screw from his throttle cable splitter dropped down into his engine via a open spark plug hole. He tried everything to get that little bastard out, ended up having to pull the head.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: racerman_27410 on December 01, 2012, 09:20:19 AM
  Wise advice Andy. Gary Mastro (Gazza) had that same accident. A screw from his throttle cable splitter dropped down into his engine via a open spark plug hole. He tried everything to get that little bastard out, ended up having to pull the head.

Speaking of Gary have you heard from him lately Pat?   My contact email for him is no longer working.


KOokaloo!


Frank


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Pat Conlon on December 01, 2012, 11:32:27 AM
Pm sent


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Harvy on December 01, 2012, 06:20:27 PM
  Wise advice Andy. Gary Mastro (Gazza) had that same accident. A screw from his throttle cable splitter dropped down into his engine via a open spark plug hole. He tried everything to get that little bastard out, ended up having to pull the head.

Speaking of Gary have you heard from him lately Pat?   My contact email for him is no longer working.


KOokaloo!


Frank

Frank..... I just google talked Gary that you are looking to say hi.

Harvy


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 04, 2012, 12:38:53 AM
So some more progress.. One step forward and one back though I think..

Started on removing the head in earnest, checked the valve clearances, removed the cam tensioner, tip wasn't too badly worn so I reckon it'll be ok to go back in. Removed the cams, and I was a little gutted to notice that 3 of the cam bearing journals are quite badly scored. You can see the 2 lines here just on the oil hole and to the left of it. Sorry for the shit cell phone picture.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_12_12_12_17_43.jpeg)

This is the worst one, I reckon that the scores are about .1 or .2 deep, both in the head and the caps and the cam bearing surface. There's no money for new cams let alone whatever needs doing to the heads to repair them if they are repairable, I'd imagine welding and re-boring the holes is a nightmare. So I will engage my best toolmaking skills and smooth off the burrs raised on the edge of the scores on both the cams and the recess in the head and bearing caps. We'll call them extra oil grooves.  :good2:

I pulled out the shims, and I reckon they are factory, they are nearly all the same, mainly 2.800's with a smattering of 2.750's and 2.700's. Clearances weren't too bad but some of them are out.
                Intake       Exhaust
Cylinder 1  .13 .16       .19 .20
Cylinder 2  .13 .11       .18 .18
Cylinder 3  .15 .13       .16 .19
Cylinder 4  .13 .15       .16 .16

The shim calculator spreadsheet is pretty cool, as found in the files section so cheers FJMonkey for that.

So tomorrow at work I'll clean up the cams and check them over for warpage. Wonder if I can slot the cam gears myself - AndyB you might be the one to ask about this.. What do you reckon? I can work out the PCD of the bolt holes easily enough, and do a program on my CNC to slot them. Hmmm.. Got to squeeze some more of those factory horses back in there somehow.


James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on December 04, 2012, 04:17:44 AM
So some more progress.. One step forward and one back though I think..

. Removed the cams, and I was a little gutted to notice that 3 of the cam bearing journals are quite badly scored. You can see the 2 lines here just on the oil hole and to the left of it. Sorry for the shit cell phone picture.


From the shit cell phone photo, I wouldn't be too fussed about the scoring.

I fitted slotted cam sprockets at 90k because I couldn't line up the timing marks properly and was surprised at the difference it made.  Well worth doing.

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: racerrad8 on December 04, 2012, 10:33:47 AM
([url]http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_12_12_12_17_43.jpeg[/url])

So I will engage my best toolmaking skills and smooth off the burrs raised on the edge of the scores on both the cams and the recess in the head and bearing caps. We'll call them extra oil grooves.  :good2:

James


James, as you have already mentioned...polish the journal & cam and let it run. That is minor compared to a lot of the stuff I have seen.

Randy - RPM


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 04, 2012, 02:46:42 PM
So I got the head off this morning before work..  Holy cow it was stuck on there good.. There is a plastic surround around some of the studs holding the head on, this had all cracked and perished and was jammed inside the head, holding it tightly onto the barrels. I had to lever the head off using the wooden handle of my ball-pein hammer the whole length of the studs. The 2 studs around #3 were the worst, they are also quite badly corroded.

So some good news.. on initial brief inspection the bore on #3 looks ok, it might still be an oil control ring that has gone on me but if it was a compression ring I'd expect to see damage.

The combustion chambers and piston tops are in quite badly covered with carbon build up.

I found something interesting on the underside of the head, someone has ground a number and letter combo into the head using a dremel or engraving tool. It reads "1 J 90"
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_12_12_2_32_36.jpeg)

Does this mean anything to anyone? looks like maybe the block has the same number hand-written into too, I'll confirm that this avo.. Maybe a workshop job number?


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 04, 2012, 04:47:02 PM
God I love Autosol..  If only the rest of the bike was this easy to fix!!  :good:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_12_12_4_42_29_1.jpeg)


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FeralJuggernaut on December 04, 2012, 10:51:44 PM
I'm not sure...  but I recall reading someplace that they put numbers/codes on the case that relates to the bearings on the crank.   I thought it was on the next level down from your photo, but it may not be a hard and fast rule.   again, just a guess... 

 :drinks:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 05, 2012, 12:35:31 AM
I'm not sure...  but I recall reading someplace that they put numbers/codes on the case that relates to the bearings on the crank.   I thought it was on the next level down from your photo, but it may not be a hard and fast rule.   again, just a guess... 

 :drinks:


I was reading up that last night, thanks to Pat Conlon I believe in the files section, and they did but the numbers I've got don't refer to that. Strange. i reckon it's just a workshop job number so they could keep track of which bit went together. It's handwritten, not stamped like the factory would do.

Anyway, leaps and bounds tonight.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_12_12_11_21_47_0.jpeg)

Started from this, pulled the rear cam chain tensioner guide out, very little wear so that's good. Removed the engine mount collars, one was free, one was seized so hopefullly it'l be a bit smoother afterwards. They look pretty nasty.. should clean up ok. I've been dropping the steel parts into the ultrasonic cleaner and they've been coming up mint.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_12_12_11_21_48_2.jpeg)

I had a closer look down the bores.. and bugger it, #3 is scored very slightly. I think I can get away with a re-hone, and new rings. I'll take the barrels into the guy who used to build our race motors, it's been a few years but hopefully he'll give me mates rates.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_12_12_11_21_49_4.jpeg)

So the motor is pretty filthy, lots of corrosion and crap everywhere, but cleanish on the inside, which is what you really want I guess.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_12_12_11_21_49_3.jpeg)

There's so much shit gone into the sump I'll have to take it off and clean the whole thing out from that side too. I was trying at the beginning to keep it all out but it was unavoidable and I just gave up once I realised that the barrels had to come off.

A couple of the dowels that hold the head and barrels on are rusted right out. One of them is seized into the head and I'm going to have to machine it out.

The studs are pretty far gone with rust and like I said, the plastic coating on them has just shattered and gone everywhere, I think these studs might need replacing - what do you guys reckon?

The pistons look ok, there is a tiny amount of scoring on the top 3-4mm of 3 out of 4 of them, but I reckon I can clean this up, and with new rings I think they'll be ok.

Barrel is going into work to check bore sizes and tolerances.

Started cleaning up the head today at work, I'll check it for flatness and de-carbon the combustion chamber before I pull out the valves and check all the guides. Had trouble finding a set of V-blocks small enough to set the cams up on to check run-out. I did manage to clean up the bearing surfaces though on the cams, haven't done the heads or bearing caps yet.

Fingers crossed everything else is ok..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: fj11.5 on December 05, 2012, 12:51:23 AM
God I love Autosol..  If only the rest of the bike was this easy to fix!!  :good:
([url]http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_12_12_4_42_29_1.jpeg[/url])
  , looks great, is it still original coated or cleaned bare alloy,, I've had good luck using cleaners with a cloth wound around my dremel saves a lot of work


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 05, 2012, 01:00:25 AM

  , looks great, is it still original coated or cleaned bare alloy,, I've had good luck using cleaners with a cloth wound around my dremel saves a lot of work

nah the original coat was knackered, I used an orbital sander to get it off.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Pat Conlon on December 05, 2012, 01:45:16 AM
I recall Randy mentioning that the plastic sleeves on the barrel studs was for cosmetics. No need to replace them if the plastic comes off...just sand 'em and paint 'em.
I don't know about the numbers on the head....:unknown:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 05, 2012, 10:07:59 PM
Ok, pop quiz, hotshots..

I'm sitting here staring at my block trying to work out how the studs come out of the block. I've put 2 nuts onto 1 stud and locked them up together and  I'm trying to wind out the studs in the usual direction (anti-clockwise) (lefty-loosey righty-tighty) but it doesn't want a bar of it. Are they LH threaded into the block or are mine like everything else on this motor, seized?

Cheers,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on December 06, 2012, 01:57:29 AM
Ok, pop quiz, hotshots..

I'm sitting here staring at my block trying to work out how the studs come out of the block. I've put 2 nuts onto 1 stud and locked them up together and  I'm trying to wind out the studs in the usual direction (anti-clockwise) (lefty-loosey righty-tighty) but it doesn't want a bar of it. Are they LH threaded into the block or are mine like everything else on this motor, seized?

Cheers,

James

James, are you sure the studs need replacing?  My crystal ball tells me this may turn into a bigger job than you expect. Unless the rust has significantly eaten into the stud I'd be cleaning them up and painting them with a neutraliser and leave it at that.

It's easy to let the enthusiasm of a freshly cracked motor take over.  I'm a mechanic ( enthusiasm dulled decades ago ) and my experience suggests at some point it is a job you may regret starting, unless of course there is no choice.

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 06, 2012, 02:06:38 AM
I wanted to get them out to make it easier to A: clean them up and paint them; B: make it easier to turn the motor over without risk of damaging them. I think you have a good point Noel, I don't need to get carried away but at the same time, if it needs doing I'd be stupid not to do it while the motor is apart.  :good2:

Ran the front engine mounts through the ultrasonic today - no good for ali it's got a corrosive mix in there but it's awesome on  steel
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_06_12_12_2_00_41_0.jpeg)

Gotta get the sump off and work out exactly how I'm going to clean everything back up after all the crap fell in there from pulling the head and barrels off. Think I'll have to take it into work. My boss isn't too happy, there's more motorbike parts laying around my bench than there is real jobs..  :good2:

James





Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on December 06, 2012, 04:03:12 AM
I wanted to get them out to make it easier to A: clean them up and paint them; B: make it easier to turn the motor over without risk of damaging them. I think you have a good point Noel, I don't need to get carried away but at the same time, if it needs doing I'd be stupid not to do it while the motor is apart.  :good2:

Gotta get the sump off and work out exactly how I'm going to clean everything back up after all the crap fell in there from pulling the head and barrels off. Think I'll have to take it into work. My boss isn't too happy, there's more motorbike parts laying around my bench than there is real jobs..  :good2:

James



I agree, if they need replacing it's silly not to do it, but if it's just for ease of cleaning and turning the motor over, I'd work around it.

When I pulled mine apart I had a huge amount of rust, dirt, gravel and what was left of the plastic fall into the cases.
I tipped the motor forward so all the rubbish rolled to the front, not back towards the gearbox, removed the sump, put a piece of plastic hose on the end of the parts wash nozzle and flushed 100's of litres of kero through it.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8205/8248626215_49c3663a3e_c.jpg)

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 06, 2012, 11:45:09 AM

I agree, if they need replacing it's silly not to do it, but if it's just for ease of cleaning and turning the motor over, I'd work around it.

When I pulled mine apart I had a huge amount of rust, dirt, gravel and what was left of the plastic fall into the cases.
I tipped the motor forward so all the rubbish rolled to the front, not back towards the gearbox, removed the sump, put a piece of plastic hose on the end of the parts wash nozzle and flushed 100's of litres of kero through it.

Noel

Noel, great minds think alike.  :good2: After my little girl's 3am feed I had trouble drifting back off to sleep, I was chewing it over in my head, and I was wondering if I could do this exact scheme in the parts washer at work. I was a little concerned with the effects of possibly flushing out all the bearing surfaces with the kero, but I was thinking that before start up I would be spinning the motor over sans sparkplugs to create some oil pressure, this would replace what oil was lost before the motor fires in earnest.

What did you paint your studs with, Noel (and others)? I have priced some POR 15 products to paint the motor but they worked out too expensive -it was proper professional stuff, but I see that they do a cheapy spray-can version of the same stuff, saw it when I was at the Mitre 10 (local hardware chain) looking for VHT spraypaint. They didn't have it but they had several other heat resistant paints in spray cans. There was CRC, Dulux and another brand I didn't recognise, so I've got some Dulux Hi-Temp black spray paint that's for the exhaust, I could use that, it's supposed to have rust preventers in it. I just don't want whatever I use to flake off as soon as the motor gets up to temp the first time.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on December 06, 2012, 01:08:03 PM
Last time I had mine apart I cleaned all the paint off the barrels and did not re-paint them, some days when I look at it I love the look other days I hate it :rofl:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 06, 2012, 02:48:20 PM
The no-paint look is pretty much what I have now, all the paint has flaked off and left me with heavily oxidised aluminium, I don't like it much.

Meanwhile, checking continues..  Checked cam shaft run-out today, exhaust was less than .01mm, intake was .02mm which is just under the .03mm my Clymer manual states for the limit.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_06_12_12_2_36_10_0.jpeg)

Today I should be able to continue removing the caked on head gasket from the head and also de-carboning the combustion chambers before I remove the valves and check the guides.

I'll have to work out a spring compressor. I have one for my V8 but it's the type that actually grabs the spring itself, okay in a big V8 head where you see the springs but no good on the FJ where the spring is in a pocket.

We have a little paint booth at work for spray painting the industrial gearboxes we refurbish, might take the headers in there and give them a go with the paint I bought today too.

So much to do so little time...  :dash1:

Thank you all for your continued input and advise it is much appreciated.  :hi:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on December 06, 2012, 05:41:44 PM
Noel, great minds think alike.  :good2: After my little girl's 3am feed I had trouble drifting back off to sleep, I was chewing it over in my head, and I was wondering if I could do this exact scheme in the parts washer at work. I was a little concerned with the effects of possibly flushing out all the bearing surfaces with the kero, but I was thinking that before start up I would be spinning the motor over sans sparkplugs to create some oil pressure, this would replace what oil was lost before the motor fires in earnest.

What did you paint your studs with, Noel (and others)? I have priced some POR 15 products to paint the motor but they worked out too expensive -it was proper professional stuff, but I see that they do a cheapy spray-can version of the same stuff, saw it when I was at the Mitre 10 (local hardware chain) looking for VHT spraypaint. They didn't have it but they had several other heat resistant paints in spray cans. There was CRC, Dulux and another brand I didn't recognise, so I've got some Dulux Hi-Temp black spray paint that's for the exhaust, I could use that, it's supposed to have rust preventers in it. I just don't want whatever I use to flake off as soon as the motor gets up to temp the first time.


Yes it will wash off the oil film on the big ends and mains, you can rock the rods from side to side a little when they are dry, but as you say, it doesn't take much to get oil pressure back in there and it's better than having any of that crud still floating around. From memory there is a bleed screw for the oil on the RHS of the head that I opened while starting for the first time. After filling with oil I spun it over on the starter with the plugs out for maybe 20 secs then just fired it up.

The product I was referring to for the studs was just a common rust converter, available at M10. Take off what rust you can and this stuff will soak into whats left and chemically neutralise it and leave an impervious surface. I actually didn't worry about treating mine. I figured with the plastic sleeves no longer on there to hold water and the engine heat to keep it dry it would no longer be a problem.

Good luck with the exhaust paint. I spent a small fortune on this.  The highest temp paints I could buy and they all eventually failed at the top bend after the header leaves the head, I have given up until the budget can fund black chrome or something similar.

This my engine at about 20,000k's using anybrand engine enamel.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7149/6788430869_6d498f74d8_z.jpg)

The headers on the left are paint job no, 3 or 4 ( to be fair they do look a lot better than this clean but are still crappy on that bend)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7173/6625157935_48208b4cb4_z.jpg)

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 06, 2012, 08:42:44 PM
Got the exhaust with the first coat.. We'll see how this holds up under some heat.  :good2: Does look a damn site better than before..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_20_11_12_6_05_09_0.jpeg)

After..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_06_12_12_8_35_34_1.jpeg)

Got a quick coat on the engine mounts too..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_06_12_12_8_35_33_0.jpeg)

Been reading up in the Mods FAQ about slotting cam sprockets and I think I won't bother but doing the ignition pickup advance mod looks like easypeasy power so that's a go..

Still been cleaning up the combustion chambers.. reckon I'll pickup some extra cc's from all the crap that's coming out of them!
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_06_12_12_8_53_52.jpeg)

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on December 07, 2012, 12:05:10 AM


Got a quick coat on the engine mounts too..

Been reading up in the Mods FAQ about slotting cam sprockets and I think I won't bother but doing the ignition pickup advance mod looks like easypeasy power so that's a go..

James


If the reading you have been doing is about changing the cam timing I wouldn't bother either but if you find at assembly time that the marks in the caps don't line up, it's worth slotting them to get it back to standard and you appear to have access to equipment to do this yourself.

Exhaust paint is no where near as hardy as engine enamel and I would recommend using it on the exhausts only.

Engine enamel is brilliant stuff, paint the whole engine in 5 mins and it looks like it just rolled out of the factory.  No sanding, etching, priming, multiple coats or long drying times. It's impervious to fuel and oil and it can be touched up and reponds to well to polish.

The only issue is it remains a little tacky until cured with heat and the only practical way to do that is ride it for a couple of hours.  The sort of manhandling required to refit the motor can end up with matt fingerprints all over your lovely new paint job. I let one of my motors sit on the bench for a couple of months after painting it and all the dust and crap that settled on it became part of the paintwork.

I think next time I would clean it and then paint it in the frame as soon as I had the rear bolt through and before fitting the front down tubes. Very little additional masking required to do it this way. Once you've got that bolt through you are done with wrestling with the motor.

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 07, 2012, 12:39:10 AM
Noel that's awesome mate, you're a fountain of useful knowledge.  :good2:

I checked the all the marks lined up before I removed the cams, both the dot-punch in the hole on #3 cap and the mark with the valve cover, and I know things might change as I put it back together but hopefully they won't be too far out. I do have the equipment and skills to do the sprocket mods but it's the time I need to set it up and measure it all to get it right. Work is great with me doing homers but I know I've never done that particular job before and other's have said it took them a day - and I think they knew what they were doing.  Anyway that's a bridge to be crossed later..  :yes:

I'll look at getting some enamel, your motor look fantastic after 20k!

Slightly annoying that it needs heat to cure - adds another level of fucking-aroundness to the whole job. Oh well, I'm already clocking up cam shafts to make sure they aren't bent, can't get too much more fucking-aroundness than that...  :bomb:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: andyb on December 07, 2012, 03:50:07 AM
Been reading up in the Mods FAQ about slotting cam sprockets and I think I won't bother but doing the ignition pickup advance mod looks like easypeasy power so that's a go..

Still been cleaning up the combustion chambers.. reckon I'll pickup some extra cc's from all the crap that's coming out of them!

Judging by the level of mechanical skill you're demonstrating, I think you'd be a bit foolish not to consider it.  Rather than breaking out the degree wheel and measuring so on, when you reassemble the top end, look at how the stock timing marks align.  I'm assuming that you're replacing the camchain, but because of wear and/or manufacturing tolerances, the marks might not align perfectly.  I'd suggest slotting the sprockets out enough that you can line things up precisely to the stock spec.  Isn't a huge amount of effort and getting the valve timing dead on will give you a better running motor.

Are you tweaking the piston/head (squish) clearance?  If you measure carefully, you should be able to set it at 1mm fairly accurately, and that'll give you a bit more guts as well, despite cleaning the carbon out of the chamber.  Stock headgaskets spec to 0.030" compressed, stock paper basegaskets were 0.020".  The rubberized base gasket that Randy sells is 0.012" if memory serves.  You may need to deck the cylinders slightly and/or deck the head (not a bad idea in any case to ensure those surfaces are dead flat, the headgasket will thank you), so the usual routine of measure twice, cut once, swear, cut again, and start over may be applicable.
 


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: JMR on December 07, 2012, 06:40:00 AM


Slightly annoying that it needs heat to cure - adds another level of fucking-aroundness to the whole job.
Use a real heat gun for 4 or 5 cycles. It gets the paint hard enough to resist finger print marks etc when installing the engine.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: RichBaker on December 07, 2012, 07:59:42 PM


Slightly annoying that it needs heat to cure - adds another level of fucking-aroundness to the whole job.
Use a real heat gun for 4 or 5 cycles. It gets the paint hard enough to resist finger print marks etc when installing the engine.

 If the cyl block is off, just stick it in the oven for 3-4 hours.....


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: fj1289 on December 08, 2012, 11:11:58 AM

 If the cyl block is off, just stick it in the oven for 3-4 hours.....

Says the guy getting ready to sleep on the couch!  Lol!


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on December 08, 2012, 01:04:18 PM

 If the cyl block is off, just stick it in the oven for 3-4 hours.....

Says the guy getting ready to sleep on the couch!  Lol!

Yes the use of the oven is up there with use of the dishwasher to clean parts, for the life of me I don't understand why, after 30 years of marriage I still don't understand and it has been explained several times maybe its because I have had to cover my ears to drown out the volume and nature of the explanation  :ireful:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: andyb on December 08, 2012, 01:16:46 PM

Yes the use of the oven is up there with use of the dishwasher to clean parts, for the life of me I don't understand why, after 30 years of marriage I still don't understand and it has been explained several times maybe its because I have had to cover my ears to drown out the volume and nature of the explanation  :ireful:

I fear that if I was in a similar situation, my ears wouldn't be the portion of my anatomy that would be most in need of protection...


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 08, 2012, 04:45:23 PM
You know I've been thinking about this and we do have an oven in our smoko room at work (read that as lunch room for all you non-Kiwis, Aussies or Poms). Doesn't get used much, it's actually brand new. I reckon I could sneak the cylinder block in there one Saturday whilst our fearsome tea-lady is away.. It should be safe to bake the heads too once I've pulled out all the valves, springs etc don't you reckon? Then I'll be able to paint them both before reassembly and won't fuck them up on reinstalling the motor.

I've got the head and cylinder block at work now so progress is slower as there's not much I'm able to do at home what with all the Xmas build up and looking after my little girl -who is smiling at me now when we have play time, she's 8 weeks old..

Got to finish cleaning up the head and check it for flatness, remove valves and springs, and then check the valves for straightness etc and the valve guides for for fit. I can't unfortunately machine the head in one go at work - I don't have a fly-cutter big enough to do it in 1 pass, the biggest diameter cutter I have access to for my machine is 80mm, so I'd have to do multiple passes, and that always leaves a ridge where the cut pass meets itself.. So I think unless it needs it I'll leave well enough alone.

Cylinder block needs to go to a mate with an engine shop to get his input on whether it's just a re-hone or bore once I've cleaned it up and seen how badly worn it is as regards wear limits - the base gasket is cooked on there good too.. I wonder if the P/O got this motor really hot, as I know I've never got it hot enough to worry about it but it had an oil temp guage on it when I got it and the paint is just falling off the motor..

 Who knows, it 's a bit of a mystery this bike regards history. I bought it as a fresh used import from a dealer, imported from Japan. 15,000km on the clock but it had to be 115,000km.. Not with the amount of wear and tear on the bodywork and state of the motor.. No previous owners in NZ. the dealer hadn't been able to shift it, it had been on the lot for a year, and the shop boys had been doing skids on it. I saw the rubber build up under the rear guard when I inspected it and managed to get $500 off the price, (paid $3000NZ) 2 new tyres and brake pads all round out of the dealer. And it was advertised as a 91 but when the paperwork came thru about the registration it was listed as a 92. I'll take that win, thanks.. It had heaps of mods done, exhaust, rear-set pegs, Renthal bars, Brembo front brakes. Even though it came in from Japan, it's a Euro-spec model 3XW, has warning labels in French on the gas tank. Weird.

Anyway, enough rambling.. Back to the garage for me..

Enjoy your weekend guys,

James



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 09, 2012, 05:07:16 PM
So I finished up cleaning the carbon out of the combustion chambers this morning.  Machined out the rusted location dowel and stoned the burrs off both sides of the head. Sat it on our marking out table and ran my clock across it.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_09_12_12_4_53_33_1.jpeg)

I'm getting .04mm max warpage across the head. That looks just under the .05mm max specified so I'll call that good.

Went to the cylinder barrells next. Factory bore is 76.96 - 77.02mm allowed.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_09_12_12_4_53_34_2.jpeg)

I got
Cylinder 1 - 76.985mm no variation found
Cylinder 2 - 77.000mm - 77.010mm
Cylinder 3 - 76.975mm - 76.990mm this is the scored cylinder
Cylinder 4 - 76.985mm - 77.000mm

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_09_12_12_4_53_34_3.jpeg)

Maximum out-of-roundness was .02mm across all 4 bores.

So we're not looking in too bad shape I don't think. 

Nex up, valve and valve guide removal/checking... I should be able to put in my order to Randy pretty soon, I've got a much beter idea of what I actually need now..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Dan Filetti on December 09, 2012, 06:28:25 PM
I am watching this thread with interest.  Seems you're doing top-notch work.   Good on you.

A point, you said that this was a Japanese import -right?  I though that the Japanese models had smaller intake bores/ throats, or some such thing, which were intended to reduce power.  Am I remembering this right?  If so, has it been, can it be, (should it be) corrected, especially now when it's in pieces?

Sorry I'm not all that specific, it's ringing a distant bell, can't pull it all out of the dusty recesses...

Others may remember better than I, if you are unfamiliar.

Dan

 


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: racerman_27410 on December 09, 2012, 06:51:33 PM
I am watching this thread with interest.  Seems you're doing top-notch work.   Good on you.

A point, you said that this was a Japanese import -right?  I though that the Japanese models had smaller intake bores/ throats, or some such thing, which were intended to reduce power.  Am I remembering this right?  If so, has it been, can it be, (should it be) corrected, especially now when it's in pieces?

Sorry I'm not all that specific, it's ringing a distant bell, can't pull it all out of the dusty recesses...

Others may remember better than I, if you are unfamiliar.

Dan

 



the restrictions are in the rubber carb joints... the cylinder heads are not restricted.


KOoALoo!


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Harvy on December 09, 2012, 06:53:15 PM
I am watching this thread with interest.  Seems you're doing top-notch work.   Good on you.

A point, you said that this was a Japanese import -right?  I though that the Japanese models had smaller intake bores/ throats, or some such thing, which were intended to reduce power.  Am I remembering this right?  If so, has it been, can it be, (should it be) corrected, especially now when it's in pieces?

Sorry I'm not all that specific, it's ringing a distant bell, can't pull it all out of the dusty recesses...

Others may remember better than I, if you are unfamiliar.

Dan

 

Correct Dan......intake manifolds are 28mm diameter as opposed to rest of world 33mm (?).
Ned in Auckland was looking into boring his out, not sure what the result was with that.
I purchased new ROW manifolds on ebay several years ago to replace my Japanese OEMs.

Harvy


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 09, 2012, 07:02:20 PM
I am watching this thread with interest.  Seems you're doing top-notch work.   Good on you.

A point, you said that this was a Japanese import -right?  I though that the Japanese models had smaller intake bores/ throats, or some such thing, which were intended to reduce power.  Am I remembering this right?  If so, has it been, can it be, (should it be) corrected, especially now when it's in pieces?

Sorry I'm not all that specific, it's ringing a distant bell, can't pull it all out of the dusty recesses...

Others may remember better than I, if you are unfamiliar.

Dan

 

Correct Dan......intake manifolds are 28mm diameter as opposed to rest of world 33mm (?).
Ned in Auckland was looking into boring his out, not sure what the result was with that.
I purchased new ROW manifolds on ebay several years ago to replace my Japanese OEMs.

Harvy

Yeah someoine mentioned this to me a while ago, and like I said there's something weird going on with this bike, I've just checked my intake boots and they measure 40mm at the carb end, and 31-32mm at the head end. It most defintaley came in from Japan but it's not a Jap domestic spec bike. Speedo goes to 270kph too..

Appreciate the extra heads up though  :good2:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 09, 2012, 07:03:47 PM
I am watching this thread with interest.  Seems you're doing top-notch work.   Good on you.

Dan

 

Thank you Dan, much appreciated.  :good2:

It is everyones input that is making this easy by pointing me in the right direction, and having the benefit of experience to say what's good to do and what's not, so again, thanks everyone that's chipped in with advice!  :good2:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Harvy on December 09, 2012, 07:38:12 PM
Sounds like your FJ has been played with James.
My '91 was Jap domestic with 28mm intake manifolds and 180km/h speedo.
The only other things I have noticed different to the US models is a lack of reflectors on the forks and the inclusion of a reflector on the rear guard that is mounted with a pop-rivet.

I no longer have any of that stuff on mine..... trimmed rear guard, Acewell Instruments and 32mm (you measured it) manifolds.

I too am following your re-build...... I have 120000Km on mine now. Still running like a Swiss watch, but one of these days she is going to need a re-build, so your is work appreciated across the ditch.

Cheers
Harvy


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: RichBaker on December 10, 2012, 07:46:31 PM

 If the cyl block is off, just stick it in the oven for 3-4 hours.....

Says the guy getting ready to sleep on the couch!  Lol!

 I'm single, I sleep wherever I want to.....   :rofl2:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 11, 2012, 08:37:50 PM
So a fellow bike enthusiast lent me his spring compressor and I dropped out the #4 exhaust valve closest to outside of the motor just to see how it worked. I noticed when I was cleaning the combustion chambers that there is some sort of coating on the exhaust valves - it is wearing off in places which is a bit of a worry. All my valves are marked 36Y on the heads. The coating wraps around the valve and continues right up to the point where the vave stem is engaged into the head.
Are my valves had it if this coating is stripping off?

I also didn't realise the valve springs were a double spring..

Gotta get the manual back out to check how to go about removing valve guide seals. I'll check all the valves for fit and wiggle as I pull them out, this ought to tell me if I've got a loose fit on the #3 valve guides, which is what I'm hoping to find.

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 13, 2012, 03:57:19 PM
I finally got the work camera out and took some better pics.. Here's the coating that's coming off my exhaust valves, these are from #4 cylinder and are by far the worst.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_13_12_12_3_31_40_1.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_13_12_12_3_31_41_3.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_13_12_12_3_31_41_2.jpeg)

I've still got to check all the vlaves for fit in the guides, gave them a wiggle as they all came out and my engineer's hands tell me they weren't too bad, felt like an .05mm ish fit to me, but I'll set them back up with a clock and do it properly but I think the guides will turn out ok. The seals look a different matter, the first one I touched was so brittle it fell apart so I think that was contributing to my issues.

Going to put the head through the bead-blaster at work to clean it up, I hate working on dirty parts. This will give me a better surface to paint too, the old paint is flaking off so i can't paint over it.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_13_12_12_3_31_40_0.jpeg)

Haven't finished sealing it yet though however..

Speaking of paint, I bit the bullet and bought some POR-15 engine enamel for the motor, so that was  $70 for a pint (475ml). By the time I'd bought another can of Hi-temp for the exhaust, some prep solution for the engine enamel that all came to NZ$130. That was an expensive day as I had to buy some new front brake rotors for my Commodore NZ$156 and get a WOF (Warrent of Fitness 6 monthly safety check) NZ$45.

So anyway if anyone cam tell me if those exhaust valves are history because that coating is coming off, that'd be great. If I have to buy valves that certainly adds to the expense - unless I just relace the ones that are actually damaged but I've never had much luck with mixing new components with worn ones - better to do it all.

Cheers guys, enjoy your weekends, the weather here is looking absolutely cracker, 26-27C light winds and clear blue skies, god I love summertime in NZ. What a damn shame my FJ is scattered in pieces around my garage.. :empathy2:

James





Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: SlowOldGuy on December 13, 2012, 05:19:16 PM
I'm not so sure that something is "coming off the valve."

That could be crap baked onto the valve over the miles of operation during the combustion process.

The crap on the stem/seat side is a common build up of combustion products on the exhaust valves and fuel contaminants on the intake valves.

I replaced all my valves a few years ago due to pitting on the valve seat face.  I don't see any of that on your valves.  Looks like a cleanup and a bit of lapping and you're good to go!

DavidR.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 13, 2012, 05:44:45 PM
It's very definately only on the exhaust valves.. it's a goldy-bronze colour. I wondered if was a ceramic coating, but I guess it's not factory whatever it is.

You are most likely right David, I just thought if was something from the combustion process it would be on the intake valves too as they are exposed to the same process - although admitedly they don't have the hot exhaust gasses flowing around the back of them.

I'm going to drop the 2 worst affected ones into our ultrasonic and see what that does to them I think.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on December 13, 2012, 06:02:41 PM
It's very definately only on the exhaust valves.. it's a goldy-bronze colour. I wondered if was a ceramic coating, but I guess it's not factory whatever it is.

You are most likely right David, I just thought if was something from the combustion process it would be on the intake valves too as they are exposed to the same process - although admitedly they don't have the hot exhaust gasses flowing around the back of them.

I'm going to drop the 2 worst affected ones into our ultrasonic and see what that does to them I think.

I'm with David, that IS crud build-up, common on exhaust valves, you can scrape it off then clean it up on a wire wheel.

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on December 13, 2012, 06:08:35 PM
I'm not so sure that something is "coming off the valve."

That could be crap baked onto the valve over the miles of operation during the combustion process.

The crap on the stem/seat side is a common build up of combustion products on the exhaust valves and fuel contaminants on the intake valves.

I replaced all my valves a few years ago due to pitting on the valve seat face.  I don't see any of that on your valves.  Looks like a cleanup and a bit of lapping and you're good to go!

DavidR.



I'm with David, that IS crud build-up, common on exhaust valves, you can scrape it off then clean it up on a wire wheel.

Noel

Awesome, that's put my mind at rest. I'll scrape away then  :good2:

Cheers guys!

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on January 20, 2013, 01:43:24 PM
Hi everyone,

Just thought I'd give a bit of an update and summary on the progress, or lack of it, since last year... had 3 weeks away at the bach with the family over New Years, boating, fishing reading and eating way too much, but now we're back into it..

The head needs new valve seals, the old ones were so brittle they fell apart as I removed them. The guides are ok, relap in the valves and we should be good to go. I ran the valves through our ultrasonic and all the crap on them came right off, thanks to Noel and David R for help on that issue.. the cams and cam chain and tensioner all look in good condition, very little wear on all the cam chain guides so that's good so I won't touch any of that. I've decided against slotting the cam gears, while I have the expertise to actually do the machining, I'm not really sure on how to go about setting it up and tuning, nor will I be in a postion to do heaps of testing once it's running. I'll need to be using the bike asap.

The bores are scratched in a few places. The pistons look ok, no major scores or wear on them. I'm attempting to get a local engine rebuilder to tell me whether or not i can just re-hone the bores to clean them out, or whether I'll have to go to the .25mm oversize pistons. The bores measure close to the upper limit anyway so I imagine I'll be going up a size. I'm also trying to locate another set of lower km bores in case I can swap it out and not go through the expensive of new pistons and reboring etc. However, used FJ parts don't really exist in NZ, there's not too many of them around. It's slightly tricky to co-ordinate logistics as I only have a push-bike to get me to work and around, my wife has our car at home with her for the baby. So i can only take bike parts to and from work, and out to workshops about once a week. I've got the car today, so the block is going with me to a local engine builder today for a chat after work.

The rest of the motor is staying as is. I'll be replacing the starter motor brushes and doing the alternator regulator, but I'm not touching the bottom end. It'l get a clean out and a repaint. I pulled off the clutch cover to have a look and it looks brand new in there.

I've taken off all the aluminium covers off the motor and I'm shining them up, should look good with the new paint.

I'm doing the timing advance mod, and giving her fresh valve springs, combine that with clean combustion chambers, fresh valve seals and lapped valves, new rings and a fresh hone/rebore and I reckon we should be back to at least factory horsepower if not slightly more on a 21 year old engine with 140,000km, not bad.

Randy is still waiting patiently for my order of parts as I don't want to go back him for more orders for parts, I'll just do it all at once.

Apart from all that I've cleaned up the engine mounts, painted the headers, they were an attractive shade or rust before, I will be rebuilding the rear brake caliper when I order parts from Randy, checked all the intake boots for cracks - some found but they don't penetrate all the way through. I'll keep an eye on them. Cleaned up and serviced my rear-set footpegs, all the bearings needed attention. I've serviced the swingarm bearings and all the lower rear suspension linkages, I had the rear shock (factory) rebuilt about 1500km ago when I put in new tarrozzi fork tubes in the front and race-tech emulators this was prior to Randy developing his new shock valves. So the suspension is good to go, and front brakes are aftermarket Brembos anyway, I've also just put stainless lines all on the bike and it got Chinese wave rotors last year too.

She'll be a new bike!

Looking forward to picking back up a few more ponies in the motor..

Let you know what the engine guys say about the bores.

Happy riding,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on January 20, 2013, 06:18:07 PM
Hi everyone,

 I've decided against slotting the cam gears, while I have the expertise to actually do the machining, I'm not really sure on how to go about setting it up and tuning, nor will I be in a postion to do heaps of testing once it's running. I'll need to be using the bike asap.


The idea of slotting the sprockets is to achieve standard timing, not change it, so there is no dialing in to do once it's running.
Assuming they left the factory with the valve timing spot on, as the motor gets some miles on it wear makes it impossible to line the marks up so the slotting is just for that, not to modify it.
I couldn't get my last motor within a half tooth of standard timing. The sprockets allowed me to line them up perfectly and I was surprised at the difference it made.
If your marks line up perfectly after you have reassembled and turned over by hand a couple of times then it's not an issue.
Noel
Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on January 20, 2013, 07:00:36 PM

The idea of slotting the sprockets is to achieve standard timing, not change it, so there is no dialing in to do once it's running.
Assuming they left the factory with the valve timing spot on, as the motor gets some miles on it wear makes it impossible to line the marks up so the slotting is just for that, not to modify it.
I couldn't get my last motor within a half tooth of standard timing. The sprockets allowed me to line them up perfectly and I was surprised at the difference it made.
If your marks line up perfectly after you have reassembled and turned over by hand a couple of times then it's not an issue.
Noel
Noel

That's a damn good point Noel. Maybe I should reconsider. When I pulled it apart I checked it first and the dot on the cams lined up perfectly central in the hole in the #3 cam cap at TDC.. But for a little more effort and 20mins of machining I guess I should do it..

We had one of our customers come in today, he is the engine builder for a fully race-spec'd late 1970's era CB1000. We make up cam chain tensioners and guides for his race motors and have recently started producing them in enough quantity to export them. Aparently demand for them in the States is unbelievable. Anyway, he knows his engines and he had a look at my bores. He reckons all it needs is a re-hone, which is awesome so I'll still take it to an engine shop to have that done but it's looking like I WON"T have to go down the new piston track..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on January 21, 2013, 01:22:11 PM
Ok so we're getting some traction again now.

Dropped into my local engine reconditioner last night, he took one look at my bores and allayed any of my fears with a simple, "Shit mate, storm in a teacup. She'll be right." So he's re-honing them for me this morning at a cost of $40. Sweet.
So now I' waiting on Randy to get back to me about new rings - they're not listed on his site, so I've emailed him, then I can bash my credit card against the exchange rates and spend a lot of money buying all the other goodies I need.

While I wait I'm thinking about what Noel said about slotting the cam gears. Can anyone confirm my initial thoughts that I would just extend the bolt holes either side by a couple of millimeters following the same PCD? What then locks the gears in position on the cams? Do you just rely on the bolts clamping it up tight enough?

Cheers,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: SlowOldGuy on January 23, 2013, 05:17:48 PM
Yep, the clamping force of the 2 bolts is plenty to keep the sprockets from slipping.

I have Falicon slotted sprockets on my '85.  I went the whole cam degreeing route with dial indicators and degree wheel.  A lot of work and math and I couldn't really tell a difference.  So much so that I didn't bother doing it to my '93.

But if you have a motor with a lot of miles and are just going to center the alignment marks, then it's probably worth the effort

DavidR.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJ1100mjk on January 23, 2013, 07:33:47 PM
Not the first time I've heard someone comment that cam degreeing didn't produce any noticeable gains.

Has anyone else gotten anything worthwhile out of the time and expense of doing it?


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on January 23, 2013, 07:55:37 PM
Not the first time I've heard someone comment that cam degreeing didn't produce any noticeable gains.

Has anyone else gotten anything worthwhile out of the time and expense of doing it?

When it first got bought up last year in this post I looked up a whle bunch of posts about it - I think thru Andyb's FAQ - cheers for that info Andy, and the general consensus seemed to be that you can gain a small amount of hp in certain areas of the rev range but you lose a corresponding amount elsewhere, which kind of makes sense, the laws of physics being what they are and all.  I guess if you are drag racing or circuit racing then that might be something you'd accept..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 23, 2013, 09:21:39 PM
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=712.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=712.0)

We talked about slotted cam gears back in '09. Look at Randy's post #30 in this topic.  Cheers!


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on January 24, 2013, 08:24:57 AM
Not the first time I've heard someone comment that cam degreeing didn't produce any noticeable gains.

Has anyone else gotten anything worthwhile out of the time and expense of doing it?

I did, but I couldn't get the cams within half a tooth of the timing marks and fitted them to achieve standard valve timing. That made a big difference.
If your cams line up, spend the money somewhere else.
I also agree, the consensus is there are no gains, for road riding anyway, to be had by fiddling around with the valve timing.
Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJ1100mjk on January 24, 2013, 10:17:17 AM
Pat:

Looked over all the posts in the link, including Randy's. Thanks.

The following that I read from a copy and paste by andyb cemented it for me...

"The only down fall was the HUGE power lost between 4000 and 6500. If you have ever ridden your FJ on the highway, you will know that that is where the engine cruises. That's what gave it the "roll-on" power that makes our bikes so much fun.

I turned my lovable FJ into a dreadfully serious not so streetable road rocket."

Marty


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: fj1289 on January 24, 2013, 12:09:57 PM
The milder the state of tune of the engine, the less critical any tuning parameter is -- or stated another way, the milder the state of tune, the wider the "sweet spot" is.

If a mildly tuned engine has the jetting slightly off, ignition timing slightly off, or cam timing slightly off, the engine will still run well. On a more aggressively tuned engine (bigger bore, higher compression, larger cams, larger valves, etc) each of those tuning factors will be more critical and the engine will "fall off" more for smaller variations in tuning factors.

In racing, lets say a GOOD rider/driver may be able to cut .5% off his lap time with a 1 or 2% increase in power.  If a lap is 1 minute long he may save .3 seconds per lap -- might be the difference between a consistent podium finisher and a field filler. On the street I seriously doubt you'd notice the difference.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on January 24, 2013, 01:23:04 PM
Picked up my bores from the engine guy yesterday avo. They look brand-spanking new, 99% of the scratches came out with just a hone. So that's great. As a bonus, he had a oil cooler laying on the floor that he gave to me for another $40. I've been looking for a transmission cooler for our car as in a month we're towing my Dad's caravan around the South Island for 2 weeks, about a 2500km trip. This will be at the height of our summer so the trans will get a work out.  (NZ ain't exactly flat, nor did our roading engineers understand the concept of 'straight')  As most shops quoted me over $300 for supply and fit, $40 for an item that is plug and play sounds pretty good.

Anyway, back to bike stuff..

Today I'm going to scribe a reference mark on my cams and sprockets then pull off the sprockets and attempt to sneak them into the CNC between jobs and slot the holes. This means when I set it back up again I can at the very least dial it back into factory specs, and gives me options in the future should I go nuts and tune the fuck out of the old girl (unlikely)
Randy said he should get back to me today with pricing for the rings which means I can pay him and he can get my belated Xmas presents on the way.

The only down side to doing this rebuild is the 1000km run in period..  :dash1: My daily commute on the bike is only a 7km round trip - it takes me longer to put ,my gear on then take it back off than to ride home. So I think I'll have to hold off on the daily commute until I've had the chance one weekend to do a bit of an Kiwi Iron-butt..  My mate has just turned his 2005 Suzuki SV1000 into a naked version with new wider and higher bars for comfort so i think he's gagging to take it for a blast.. This could work..  :good2: But I'm getting ahead of myself. Gotta put the bike back together first.  :good2:

James



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: fj1289 on January 24, 2013, 01:44:07 PM
FLUSH OUT THAT OIL COOLER VERY VERY VERY THOROUGHLY!!!
If there were any contaminates, bits of gears, friction material etc from the old engine they will contaminate yours and could spell an early death. Ive known engine builders that refuse to reuse oil coolers for that reason.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on January 24, 2013, 01:55:51 PM
FLUSH OUT THAT OIL COOLER VERY VERY VERY THOROUGHLY!!!
If there were any contaminates, bits of gears, friction material etc from the old engine they will contaminate yours and could spell an early death. Ive known engine builders that refuse to reuse oil coolers for that reason.

Excellent advice, and it was the first thing I did when I got to work this morning.  Half hour in the parts cleaner flushing it through...:good2: Been getting some funny looks lately I must admit. I ride a push-bike to work as the FJ is laid up and the missus needs our car for baby-taxi duties, so in the last couple of months I have strapped, bungy-corded, hung, stacked and otherwise festooned my bike with a cylinder head, the bores, kick plates, a complete exhaust system, the swingarm (that was exciting) and then this moring I had an oil cooler dangling from the handlebars. Not to mention all the little parts that have gone in my bag, i have FJ component shaped bruises all over my back..

the things we do for the Kookaloo!!

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: andyb on January 24, 2013, 04:02:48 PM
+1

In honest truth on the street, the better rider will be quicker unless there's a really massive gap in performance.  Even in straight line performance, just shifting well will make a huge difference.

It's not that a good rider makes the bike faster, it's that a good rider makes the bike less slow than the worse rider.


As for the cam timing, you don't really need to mark things unless you're really wanting to see how far out they were originally.  Just use the factory timing marks when you align things and it'll be fine.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Dan Filetti on January 24, 2013, 08:51:09 PM
In honest truth on the street, the better rider will be quicker unless there's a really massive gap in performance. 


Street or track, and even with a massive performance gap, that is assuming there is also a massive skills gap, in reverse, at the same time.

I have posted this before, but I really enjoy watching this skilled rider at Laguna Seca on a Ninja 250, work his way through a pack of much larger bikes, including R1's. Yeah they get around him again on the straights -for a while, but he consistently works his way so far past these bikes that they eventually can't catch him, even on the straights.  Skill can and does trump displacement, in many situations, especially when the road gets twisty.

Ninja 250 vs. the big bikes at Laguna Seca (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz03sQeX02c#ws)

Enjoy,

Dan



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on January 25, 2013, 01:22:22 PM
Yahoo!!!!!!!

Parts just been ordered from Randy! He now has standard Yamaha piston ring sets on the website, BTW..  :good2:

We're on the road to recovery..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on January 31, 2013, 12:57:09 AM
Quick update..

There is a box of parts somewhere over the Pacific ocean winging it's way towards me, hopefully with NZ Customs (bless their little money grabbing hearts) blissfully unaware of it's existence.

Did the ignition advance mod today, that's some easy-peasy horsepower right there I'll tell you. It's a 10min mod.

I'm organising all the parts I pulled off in the garage, I was keeping it neat and tidy and then Xmas happened and i got busy and well, shit happened. I was pretty careful to bag and tag everything but it's all mixed up, got to separate the engine part bags from the frame stuff. Still working on cleaning up the motor - minus the barrels and heads so I can paint it.

Who knows a good trick to remove encrusted carbon deposits from the exhaust passages in the head? There is approximately 2mm of hard carbonated crud in there I want to remove. Our parts cleaner is just kero based and doesnt touch it, and I've tried scraping it out and I'll be there all year. Is there a sloutionj i can make up at home that will dissolve that shit?

Cheers,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: skymasteres on January 31, 2013, 09:49:36 AM
Quick update..

Who knows a good trick to remove encrusted carbon deposits from the exhaust passages in the head? There is approximately 2mm of hard carbonated crud in there I want to remove. Our parts cleaner is just kero based and doesnt touch it, and I've tried scraping it out and I'll be there all year. Is there a sloutionj i can make up at home that will dissolve that shit?

Cheers,

James

The two things that have worked for me are oven cleaner and old aluminum hunting arrows. You spray the overn cleanere in there, let it sit for an hour, then take the aluminum arrow and use it like a flathead srewdriver to chip the stuff away. Should come right off. A little scotch bright would clean up the little bits that are left.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on January 31, 2013, 04:23:12 PM

The two things that have worked for me are oven cleaner and old aluminum hunting arrows. You spray the overn cleanere in there, let it sit for an hour, then take the aluminum arrow and use it like a flathead srewdriver to chip the stuff away. Should come right off. A little scotch bright would clean up the little bits that are left.

Thanks for the reply Skymaster but..  Somebody upstairs must be listening to me..

After just asking about cleaning up my head, I got talking to the guy who we make custom cam-chain guides for his Honda race bikes, he came in to pick up the next set we've just done, and he's offered to take my head into a mate's place and do what he does to his CB race heads to clean them up - it's a liquid-borne bead blaster. He said it gets the heads looking factory fresh, no paint or carbon left anywhere and doesn't dimensionally alter the head in any way. The only issue is I will have to chase out the glass beads from the tapped holes with a roll-tap, but that's ok, I have access to a cabinet full of those.

Nice one. He'll drop it back to me on Monday then that means the head will be ready for painting straightaway before I fit the new valve stem seals, which should be turning up any day, and then start to re-lap in the valves.



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on February 04, 2013, 01:35:18 AM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_02_13_1_27_54.jpeg)

Randy I love you.. FJ Porn delivered directly to my door..

that's a box of goodness right there..  :good2:

Stay tuned for the fitting.. :good2:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: fj11.5 on February 04, 2013, 02:12:00 AM
omg,pics like that should come with a warning and be pixelated  :biggrin:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on February 04, 2013, 06:03:35 PM
Ok so I've delved into my box of goodies allready and fitted the seal kit to my rear caliper at work today, and then put it all back together. I've also finally got around to slotting my cam gears, got that done this morning. I slotted the holes 2mm each way on the same PCD. And then, to really make my day, Brent dropped back in my head after he'd liquid suspension bead blasted it.. holy shit, i'll put a pic up tonight, looks a million  bucks! Clean as the day it was cast..  Brent really knows his bike motors, his 1979 CB1000 motor is currently spitting out 140hp ish at the back wheel, titanium everything, and he's convinced me to get into the ports and clean out the casting flaws and match all the machined parts to the cast parts.. he reckons extra 5hp easy so I didn't need much convincing.. He said I could go to town and really blow it out, and then spent an hour showing me exactly how to do it! But time issues say just a quick job now, and hey, it'l be making more horses than before, so that's all good...

More kookaloo for me...  :good2:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: fj11.5 on February 04, 2013, 06:19:48 PM
Often wondered if cleaning up the cast lines in the exhaust ports was worth doing ,, I know its not the same, but removing the casting on rc heads and pipe improves performance :biggrin:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: racerman_27410 on February 04, 2013, 06:34:57 PM
matching the ports and cleaning up the intake tracts is always a good idea.


KOokaloo!


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on February 04, 2013, 09:51:55 PM
Here's the head after cleaning.. Started going through the ports this avo, removing steps from the exhaust side. Some of them were actually quite substantial, about .5mm or so. You can clearly see them in the exhaust ports in the pic..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_02_13_9_44_49_1.jpeg)

And the slotted cam gears..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_04_02_13_9_44_48_0.jpeg)



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: fj11.5 on February 05, 2013, 05:38:03 AM
dam, that looks better than new,,  how did you slot the cams, cnc machine? ?   ,,,i may just have to tidy up the exhaust ports,  just for fun  :biggrin:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on February 06, 2013, 01:14:05 PM
dam, that looks better than new,,  how did you slot the cams, cnc machine? ?   ,,,i may just have to tidy up the exhaust ports,  just for fun  :biggrin:

Yeah Rod, I whipped up quick program and fitted them in between jobs..It was only 3 mins of machine time per gear. The photo makes it look like they are just slotted straight but they follow the same PCD of the original holes..

If you've got the head off I'd say go for a quick port job, hell you could make a difference even only with a rat tail file, just stay away from the valve seats. Might only be half an extra horse or you might pick up 2 or 3, either way, go for the win.  :good2:

The only bitch about the liquid suspension bead blast is now I have to drill out the blanked off oil galleries in the head so I can clean them out, then tap and plug the holes. But I think the end result was worth the extra hassle..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on February 11, 2013, 02:03:08 PM
Ok so some more baby steps in progress..

Finished taking out all the steps in the intake and exhaust tracts in the head, and gave them a quick going over with a flap wheel to take off the high spots on the castings. It won't have made ahuge difference but for the couple of hours it took in between jobs at work I reckon it'l be worth it.

Intakes
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_11_02_13_1_43_10_3.jpeg)

Exhaust
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_11_02_13_1_43_10_2.jpeg)

Intake tract
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_11_02_13_1_43_09_1.jpeg)

Now I'm going through all the tapped holes in the head cleaning out the bead blasting material with a roll-tap. My, aren't there a lot of holes in there once you start counting?  :good2:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_11_02_13_1_43_09_0.jpeg)

I still have to drill into the blanked off oil galleries to blow them out and clear them, I'll plug them after 1/8 BSPT, plenty of those around at work. It might be overkill but the idea of a whole bunch of minute particles of highly abrasive glass beads travelling around the inside my motor doesn't excite me..

And on a completely different note, my little baby girl Zara Fleur Daw is 4 months old this week.. She hasn't been properly introduced to the FJ yet.. But she has spent a bit of time asleep in the garage with me while I worked on pulling her apart..  :good2:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_11_02_13_1_56_43.jpeg)

Happy riding!!

James



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: racerman_27410 on February 11, 2013, 03:19:07 PM
NIce..... pretty little girl ya got there... what does her name mean?   


KOokaloo!


Frank


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: The General on February 11, 2013, 03:37:23 PM
 :hi: Welcome Zara. Nice to see some young ladies join the forum. Am pleased ya enjoy the shed. Sorry you don`t have real koala bears over there nor The Barrier Reef etc, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. . Would you like a nice lady to live with you, she could stay there and be your bestest friend forever,,,,You could call her number 11 but her real name is Julia.  :nea:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on February 11, 2013, 03:45:28 PM
NIce..... pretty little girl ya got there... what does her name mean?   


KOokaloo!


Frank

Thanks, Frank.. we think so too.. 

We just liked the sound of Zara, and my wife's middle name is Fleur, which she actually goes by. And Daw, well, that's just my surname that they've been stuck with. :-)
We didn't go much into the background on the name but funnily enough, Zara apparently comes from the Arabic name Zahira/Zahrah which means flower, and of course, Fleur is French for flower.
I like the French tie-in because my parents are English, came over to NZ in 1969 and I turned up 10 years later, but Dad traced back his side of the family to the early 1600's when they came across from France to England as carpet merchants, of all things.

Anyway, we thought it all just sounded pretty when you said it, which we thought was important for a girl..

What motorbike starts with a ZF prefix? My wife and I have the FJ (Fleur and James), I could aways get her a FZR I suppose..  :good2:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on February 11, 2013, 04:12:39 PM
but she is getting an FJ tattoo for her first birthday right  :good2:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJmonkey on February 11, 2013, 06:32:57 PM
Don't forget FJ earrings and a Kookaloo (bling) necklace.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on February 12, 2013, 04:12:13 PM
Okay back on topic - my valve lapping set turned up today, and I just had a quick go at lapping in a valve. I've never done this before, so how far do I need to go? 3 min of gentle pressure and rotation using #1 lapping paste has given me a shiny surface on the valve itself that is 1.5mm wide which is not quite uniform, there are small dots which I am assuming is very mild pitting. The finish in the valve seat in the head is the same.  This is an exhaust valve.

I would assume, without making an ass out u and me, that I need to get a uniform finish without grinding the valve so far down that I start changing the width of the seating angle.

Cheers,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Arnie on February 12, 2013, 06:58:31 PM
The Yamaha Service Manual (pg 3-17) specs the width of the sealing band as 1.0mm +/- 0.1 centered on the valve seat.  They further state that if its wider than that OR not centered you need to cut either the 30* or 60* angle to make it so.

hth,
Arnie


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: JMR on February 12, 2013, 07:11:02 PM
The Yamaha Service Manual (pg 3-17) specs the width of the sealing band as 1.0mm +/- 0.1 centered on the valve seat.  They further state that if its wider than that OR not centered you need to cut either the 30* or 60* angle to make it so.

hth,
Arnie

It's not a problem if the contact area is pushed towards the edge of the valve....all the performance valve jobs are done that way.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on February 12, 2013, 07:50:21 PM
The Yamaha Service Manual (pg 3-17) specs the width of the sealing band as 1.0mm +/- 0.1 centered on the valve seat.  They further state that if its wider than that OR not centered you need to cut either the 30* or 60* angle to make it so.

hth,
Arnie

It's not a problem if the contact area is pushed towards the edge of the valve....all the performance valve jobs are done that way.

That's good news because it is definately towards the outer edge of the valve. I wasn't looking forward to having to recut valve seats at this stage of things where it's starting to go back together..

Cheers guys


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: JMR on February 13, 2013, 07:24:56 AM
The Yamaha Service Manual (pg 3-17) specs the width of the sealing band as 1.0mm +/- 0.1 centered on the valve seat.  They further state that if its wider than that OR not centered you need to cut either the 30* or 60* angle to make it so.

hth,
Arnie

It's not a problem if the contact area is pushed towards the edge of the valve....all the performance valve jobs are done that way.

That's good news because it is definately towards the outer edge of the valve. I wasn't looking forward to having to recut valve seats at this stage of things where it's starting to go back together..

Cheers guys

 That being said the intake contact area is generally .040 and the exhaust .050. That is after having the seat cut. It would be nice to have the valves vacuum tested after your work. This can be done quickly on a Serdi


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: bcguide on February 13, 2013, 09:34:41 PM
Are you lifting the valve off the seat and giving it a 1/4  or 1/2 turn every once in a while or are you turning the valve on its seat for 3 min?
Scott


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on February 14, 2013, 01:03:28 PM
Are you lifting the valve off the seat and giving it a 1/4  or 1/2 turn every once in a while or are you turning the valve on its seat for 3 min?
Scott


No I'm popping the valve up and down off the seat every few seconds as shown here..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhXsH12Rg6s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhXsH12Rg6s)

I'm not going to recutting anything regardless of the width or position of the sealing area. The bike ran before, it'll run the same or better after they've been reseated and seal better. I'm running out of time to do any more fiddling.

Got the motor into the parts cleaner yesterday avo and gave it a first wash out. I'll have to do it several times I think. The fluids just been changed so it's nice and clean..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_14_02_13_1_00_31_0.jpeg)

Cheers,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Woodsman on February 23, 2013, 03:23:30 AM
Fair play to ya there boss, you're doing a great job ensuring she turns out to be a thing of beauty.
Keep up the old spannering on the bike to. All the best to you and your wee lassie. :good2:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on March 14, 2013, 04:08:08 PM
Well, I've been away for the last few weeks on holiday with my family around the South Island, towed a caravan 3634km and had a blast.. Been a pretty shitty return to work this week after that, I can tell. Here's one of things I got up to..

http://www.ididit.co.nz/ididit/profile/30907/album/18833/ (http://www.ididit.co.nz/ididit/profile/30907/album/18833/)

And here's us parked up at the sub-tropical rainforest campground at the Franz Josef Glacier on the West Coast. See, NZ rocks, rainforests and glaciers right next to each other..
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/249326_10151309483330825_1846529520_n.jpg)

Back into the rebuild, I finoished off re-lapping the valves, so they're good to go. The head just needs another wash out then I can paint it, bake it to set the stuff and then fit my new valve stem seals and valve springs and reassemble it all and get the shims right.

In between all the other jobs, since I sent my bores out to be re-honed I've been scraping away with a razor blade at the base gasket, and I have come to the conclusion that after 140,000km it has trasformed into the hardest substance known to man. I've spent more time on that damn gasket than any other part of the rebuild to date!!

Once I've got it off I can paint this too and bake it and then I can actually start to put it all back together..

This is taking a while I know, I optimistically entitled my accompanying Facebook album 'The Great Motorbike Fix of 2012" and after a few comments it's now been edited to 2012/2013.. But a baby, full-time job, part-time study and life in general isn't leaving as much time as I'd like.. Still, at least I'm progressing..

So far I've done from the top down:

Slotted the cam gears
Checked cams for runout and cleaned up the scores on journals
Mild port cleanup
Ultrasonically cleaned all the valves
Lapped the valves
Honed the bores
Done the 5 degree timing advance mod
Cleaned the motor/gearbox of all crud dropped in there from the pull-down
Cleaned 140,000km worth of oil crud out the sump
Dismantled and cleaned cam chain tensioner
Polished all the ali covers on the motor
Flushed and cleaned out oil cooler
De-rusted and painted exhaust
Rebuilt the rear brake caliper

After I've painted the head and reassembled that part with the new goodies, I plan to pull apart the starter motor and do the brush kit replacement I bought, also the regulator mod, then onto motor reassembly with the new rings and spin on filter kit.

Good things take time I guess..

James





Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: The General on March 14, 2013, 08:23:32 PM
 :dash2: You are one mad basted...I couldn`t do it!...Did ya end up taller?  :flag_of_truce: That caravan Park doesn`t look like sheep country ta me. You sure ya didn`t cross the ditch?       ummmm...I could make good use of that caravan next March.  :mail1:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on March 14, 2013, 08:37:19 PM
:dash2: You are one mad basted...I couldn`t do it!...Did ya end up taller?  :flag_of_truce: That caravan Park doesn`t look like sheep country ta me. You sure ya didn`t cross the ditch?       ummmm...I could make good use of that caravan next March.  :mail1:


I reckon I might have stretched a bit, not that at 6"2' I really needed it.. The hardest part was telling myself to jump. The engineer in me had kept a fairly beady eye on the 2 jokers who hooked me up to the rubber band so i knew i wasn't going to come off but still, jumping off a 43m bridge isn't something you do everyday. The little Asian guy before me had to be pushed, and he fell in the fetal position, really didn't look too classy so I decided if I was going to do I had to make it look as gracefull as a 118kg un-co man can be..  It was a hell of a rush and I'd do it again!  :good2:

The caravan park was really good, little bays all nestled into the native bush, if anyone passes through Franz Josef on their travels I'd highly reccomend it, free spa pool too..
http://www.rainforestholidaypark.co.nz/ (http://www.rainforestholidaypark.co.nz/)

James



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: oldktmdude on March 14, 2013, 09:03:29 PM
:dash2: You are one mad basted...I couldn`t do it!...Did ya end up taller?  :flag_of_truce: That caravan Park doesn`t look like sheep country ta me. You sure ya didn`t cross the ditch?       ummmm...I could make good use of that caravan next March.  :mail1:
   Forget the caravan Doug, I've got some accommodation already sorted for you. I've even organised a "once only" discount for you. Sorry the continental breakfast offer has been withdrawn due to somebody already eating it.    Pete.     :biggrin:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on April 03, 2013, 11:41:33 PM



This is taking a while I know, I optimistically entitled my accompanying Facebook album 'The Great Motorbike Fix of 2012" and after a few comments it's now been edited to 2012/2013.. But a baby, full-time job, part-time study and life in general isn't leaving as much time as I'd like.. Still, at least I'm progressing..



Okay, so things have been a bit busy lately and I've had to make a shit decision.. As I have absolutely zero time to work on the bike as I'm now job-hunting as well as studying, working and being a dad I'm going to close my eyes, open my wallet, take a deep breath and give the motor to a mechanic to re-assemble. I've done all the machining and bits and pieces I needed to do so it's now a case of me getting the head and barrels painted professionally, then sticking it together. Today I finally had a chance at work to do the new Racetech regulator mod, and I also replaced the brushes in the starter motor, so that's the electric side of it done.

Anyway, i'm going to get some quotes, I'll keep you posted..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on April 04, 2013, 01:23:03 AM

 open my wallet, take a deep breath and it's now a case of me getting the head and barrels painted professionally

James


James, I can save you SOME money.

This is my engine at about 20,000k after painting, it has done at least twice that now and looks exactly the same. Not even a fly speck of paint missing.
Preparation was no more than a kero wash and high pressure clean after.
No other prep or cleaning, no primers, no undercoats, no baking, I use any brand engine enamel, it can be touched up and is impervious to fuel and oil. That is what it is designed to do.

Unlike body finishes, I don't believe there is anything a "professional" could do that would be an improvement over a rattle can job you did yourself.
After a bit of selective masking, the paint job takes about 10 mins total, and that's if your fussy.

Whether you paint it yourself or give to a professional to paint as far as I'm aware ALL engine enamels need to heat cured and remain soft until then.

That means making it the very last job before installing and even then handling carefully to avoid fingerprints and knocks.

I decided last time I would in future leave it until I had the motor hanging from the back bolt and before fitting the down tubes at the front so I wouldn't have to handle it after painting.
 
You certainly would not want to paint it before giving it to someone to reassemble.

I sanded one side of the fins as per original and left one painted and after looking at it for a few weeks decided I preferred them painted.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7149/6788430869_6d498f74d8_z.jpg)

A shame the exhaust paint doesn't perform as well.

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5105/5687363152_c418a94ef9_z.jpg)

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJSpringy on April 04, 2013, 03:02:19 AM
VHT SP124 gloss black  :good2:

run the engine to get it warm, not hot, mask, spray, wait half an hour or so, then run the motor to warm it up, don't ride it to try and dry the paint.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Steve_in_Florida on April 04, 2013, 03:52:59 AM

Nice engine, Noel. Good work.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on April 04, 2013, 07:42:04 AM

VHT SP124 gloss black  :good2:

run the engine to get it warm, not hot, mask, spray, wait half an hour or so, then run the motor to warm it up, don't ride it to try and dry the paint.

That's true, don't ride it to dry it but you do need to ride it to cure it, for at least an hour, a couple would be better or oven bake it at 200F which is impractical and not necessary.

The first of the last two motors I painted I rode straight out the door for my first ride after a rebuild into the rain, which never stopped all day. The front of that engine still looks like crap today.
The second one I let sit in the bench for a couple of months and all the dust settled on the horizontal surfaces, and that's still there to this day.

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on April 05, 2013, 12:06:22 AM
Excellent advice from you all as usual.

I have bought the paint already, it's the POR15 proper stuff and it needs to be cured just as everyone has said but I was planning on painting the head and bores and then baking them in the oven to set it so that I could reassemble without fear of sticky fingerprints.

But I'm thinking i can give the head and bores to a paint shop along with the paint i bought, they can spray it on (I can't spray, no gear, paint is in a tin) and then bake it in the booth to set. No sticky finger issues..

Once that's done then I can get the motor put back together...

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on April 05, 2013, 06:43:35 AM
Excellent advice from you all as usual.

I have bought the paint already, it's the POR15 proper stuff and it needs to be cured just as everyone has said but I was planning on painting the head and bores and then baking them in the oven to set it so that I could reassemble without fear of sticky fingerprints.

But I'm thinking i can give the head and bores to a paint shop along with the paint i bought, they can spray it on (I can't spray, no gear, paint is in a tin) and then bake it in the booth to set. No sticky finger issues..

Once that's done then I can get the motor put back together...

James

What are you doing about the cases?

I still reckon all that transporting, handling and assembling is begging for some paint damage before it makes it back into the bike. I say this from experience.

Also, any auto paint shop will put loose paint in a spray can for you.

The product Dave (FJ springy) mentioned, VHT SP124 is also the proper stuff and comes in a spray can for $19 with enough paint for about 3 motors and you can always touch it up if need be.

If time is an issue, unless your professional painter lives directly over the road from you it would still be many times faster to paint yourself than delivering and then picking up from the painter.

Once clean this REALLY is a 10 minute job, 30 mins if you are fussy about the masking.

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on April 24, 2013, 02:20:35 AM
Okay so we're getting back up to speed with the rebuild now...

I walked next door to the dodgy panel and paint shop at work, and Stan the Russian was more than happy to sort out painting the barrels, head and valve cover for me with the paint I previously bought. So hopefully pick them up tomorrow.

I gave up trying to clean up the kickplates as the clear coat had peeled off them in places, so I had attempted sanding, buffing, and then resorted to a mild bead blast to totally clean them up. I then came to my senses and took them to a polisher and now they're almost - almost! - up to Simichrome standard, photos to come.

I tried a few mechanics about building the motor back up for me, and was pointed back out the door accompanied by bursts of hysterical laughter, which wasn't encouraging, but eventually someone gave me a name and I dropped in, a tiny, tiny unit in an industrial area, with enough room to roll a bike in and swing a spanner and not much else, the remaining room taken up by a HK ute under restoration (a man with commendable taste) and approximately a shitload and half of old bikes. He's agreed to take it on, piece of piss was his exact phrase, and he knew FJ's so that was a bonus.

So I'm just tidying up the last few little things before handing it all over, bagging and labelling all the random parts, replaced the starter motor brushes, did the alternator regulator and buffed up the sump on the wire brush wheel. It's all looking a million dollars now...

I'll get some pics together over the next few days, tomorrow is a day of rest, ANZAC Day here in NZ, day off from work and a chance to remember all those brave Kiwi's and Aussie's who gave their lives so many years ago..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: The General on April 24, 2013, 03:54:29 AM
tomorrow is a day of rest, ANZAC Day here in NZ, day off from work and a chance to remember all those brave Kiwi's and Aussie's who gave their lives so many years ago..

James
+1 For remembrance of the Kiwis and Aussies that fought and those that continue that fight for us. A special day to all our Anzac mates :drinks:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: movenon on April 24, 2013, 07:48:55 AM
tomorrow is a day of rest, ANZAC Day here in NZ, day off from work and a chance to remember all those brave Kiwi's and Aussie's who gave their lives so many years ago..

James
+1 For remembrance of the Kiwis and Aussies that fought and those that continue that fight for us. A special day to all our Anzac mates :drinks:


Also +1. Spent ANZAC day in 1969 in Brisbane marching there parade. A week later I was in Wellington.  :drinks: here's to all that served.
George


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on April 30, 2013, 10:51:25 PM
Here we are...

Shiny bits!

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_30_04_13_10_35_24_2.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_30_04_13_10_35_22_1.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_30_04_13_10_35_19_0.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/4/517_30_04_13_10_50_14.jpeg)


So now it's off to my friendly local engine guy to throw all RPM's new gear into it.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: fj11.5 on April 30, 2013, 11:29:22 PM
Very nice,, but where's the pics of the hk ute,  I had one for my first car,  second one copped a 4.2 v8 and monaro parts  :good2:,, oh,  if you see a lanky american wandering around aukland with a group of churchies,  its my landlord  :biggrin:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on June 21, 2013, 06:08:48 PM
Hi guys,

Okay so to cut a long story short I'm back to assembling the motor myself, after a 3 month hiatus.. (life gets complicated sometimes doesnt it?) Anyway, got in the garage this morning and went to get stuck into it. Tried to push on my new valve stem seals and ended up with this.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_21_06_13_5_38_20_0.jpeg)
So i said some nice words, and worked out you obviously need a special tool. What I did was, lubed up the valve guide with engine oil, and held the valve stem seal in the end of a socket, seating on the metal outer sheath. like this.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_21_06_13_6_03_23.jpeg)
I tapped it on gently and the damn thing still split.

Is there a procedure to do these properly at home with the contents of an average toolbox or do I need to buy the sleeves and drivers to put them in? I've had a look through the site but haven't found anything on procedures, just a lot of guys saying they had done it.

I've ordered 4 more from randy so they'l be here in a few weeks and I can carry on with the head. In the mean time I did all the easy stuff on the block, sump back on, clutch cover, all the little bits and pieces.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_21_06_13_5_38_23_1.jpeg)


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: racerrad8 on June 21, 2013, 07:21:02 PM
No special tools required per say. I use a 3/8" inch 1/4" drive socket, 9mm is too small and 10mm is a little too big.

The 9mm will damage the spring during the install and the 10mm can slide off of the shoulder and damage the spring/seal.

I use a 1/4" drive handle (http://www.sears.com/craftsman-6-in-spinner-handle-1-4-in-drive/p-00943393000P) like the one in the link.

I do not use oil, I use a touch of synthetic grease. I put a light coat on the tip of the guide and the rubber interior portion of the seal.

Never use a hammer to install, you only need to push the straight down and onto the guide and when you do it properly you can feel the slight "click" of the rubber latching onto the guide.

If you have any further question let me know via email. I will get the replacements headed out to you tomorrow.

If you tried installing with pliers, the housing will distort and the 8mm socket in the phot0 is much too small.

Randy - RPM



Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on June 21, 2013, 10:21:42 PM
No special tools required per say. I use a 3/8" inch 1/4" drive socket, 9mm is too small and 10mm is a little too big.



I do not use oil, I use a touch of synthetic grease. I put a light coat on the tip of the guide and the rubber interior portion of the seal.

Never use a hammer to install, you only need to push the straight down and onto the guide and when you do it properly you can feel the slight "click" of the rubber latching onto the guide.

If you have any further question let me know via email. I will get the replacements headed out to you tomorrow.

If you tried installing with pliers, the housing will distort and the 8mm socket in the phot0 is much too small.

Randy - RPM



Thanks Randy, I tried a light push but no joy so I tapped it down with the palm of my hand on the end of the 1/4 extension off the back of the socket - but as you said, it needs to be 3/8, which I'll have to get. No hammer involved or pliers involved to install, I used them to get it off again once I realised I'd screwed it up...  :good2: I will flick you an email though as I have a question on the rings.

Cheers,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: RichBaker on June 27, 2013, 11:20:09 PM
Are you using something to protect the seals from the keeper groove? Last time I did valve seals, they came with a plastic device that slid over the valve stem and covered the groove...


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on July 08, 2013, 01:59:14 AM
Are you using something to protect the seals from the keeper groove? Last time I did valve seals, they came with a plastic device that slid over the valve stem and covered the groove...


Hey Rich,
I fitted the seals with the valves out so no issues with that.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_08_07_13_1_49_35_0.jpeg)

Just not quite enough care in fitting them, but they're all in now, valves, new RPM valve springs all in too.. thanks to Randy for expediting those replacement seals across to me, but maybe he needs his glasses prescription checking, I needed 2 seals, asked for 4 and 6 turned up.  :good2: Cheers mate!!
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_08_07_13_1_49_40_2.jpeg)

Fitted the new rings too, next step is to drop the barrels on over the top, any tips for that? I was planning on rotating the crank so all 4 pistons are equal height off the deck, so all the rings engage at the same time or are I better off leaving 2 down 2 up so as to stagger it?

Cheers,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on July 08, 2013, 04:51:44 AM
Fitted the new rings too, next step is to drop the barrels on over the top, any tips for that? I was planning on rotating the crank so all 4 pistons are equal height off the deck, so all the rings engage at the same time or are I better off leaving 2 down 2 up so as to stagger it?

Cheers,

James

Two at a time will keep you busy enough.

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on August 03, 2013, 10:50:09 PM
Hi everyone,

So I got busy today as I home alone, and got the barrels on. Got some good tips on how to go about it by myself, mainly just to tilt the pistons as they engage the taper with the open ends of the ring captured first. As you then squeeze the rest of the ring into the taper the ends don't want to pop out.. Worked well..

I got the barrels on, had a minor panic when I thought for a second I'd forgotten to fit the dowels into the block first, but I was able to lift it back up a couple of mm and check. Big phew..  :i_am_so_happy:

Head went on too, and I dropped the buckets on the valves.

Got to read up the manual about what to do about shimming the valves now - I wrote down all my sizes before pulling everything down but as I re-lapped the valves that will change so I cant use those original measurements to just work out the new shim size. I think I might just put in what was there before as a baseline, and recheck and re-shim once I have the cams timed up.

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_03_08_13_10_36_13_0.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_03_08_13_10_36_16_1.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_03_08_13_10_36_18_2.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_03_08_13_10_36_20_3.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_03_08_13_10_36_23_4.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_03_08_13_10_36_25_5.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_03_08_13_10_36_27_6.jpeg)

progress!!!

I love it...!!!  :yahoo:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: baldy3853 on August 04, 2013, 03:58:08 AM
Hey James while you have the motor out put a couple of grease nipples in the front engine mounts, will make servicing of the engine mounts easier.  :good2: :biggrin:
Baldy


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on August 04, 2013, 07:27:12 PM
James, congrats on the assembly, nice to see it going back together.
I have been waiting, waiting...... for someone to ask, what's with the zebra stripes?

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJmonkey on August 04, 2013, 07:47:25 PM
James, congrats on the assembly, nice to see it going back together.
I have been waiting, waiting...... for someone to ask, what's with the zebra stripes?

Noel
The pattern seems be limited to sealing surfaces. Done with a sharpie pen or the like... Beyond that, I got nothing...


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on August 05, 2013, 02:09:51 AM
James, congrats on the assembly, nice to see it going back together.
I have been waiting, waiting...... for someone to ask, what's with the zebra stripes?

Noel

The marks are with a vivid, it was to show Stan the dodgy Russian painter where to mask  :good:

So we had a slow work day today, and this happened...

Fork brace, 1st operation
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_05_08_13_1_27_16_0.jpeg)

Second Op
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_05_08_13_1_27_19_1.jpeg)

And so on
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_05_08_13_1_27_21_2.jpeg)

Next side..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_05_08_13_1_27_23_3.jpeg)

Machinig outside
http://youtu.be/aV0vqfa04kE (http://youtu.be/aV0vqfa04kE)

Machining holes
http://youtu.be/l28NZJHwM38 (http://youtu.be/l28NZJHwM38)

Machining pockets
http://youtu.be/rcvWaMatfPU (http://youtu.be/rcvWaMatfPU)

Fits great, looks good. I originally got the CAD files from our good Monkey, cheers mate  but in the end I designed my own, which looks pretty similar to one of his designs. I'm going to engrave my FJ1200 logo on it too.
BTW, I made 2...  :good2:

More pics and vids to come I documented the whole thing.. Youtube vids still uploading, ditto pics.. I'll add the others in the morn, still download/uploading the fitted pics..
James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: X-Ray on August 05, 2013, 02:19:23 AM
Heh Heh, tried to see the vids and you are still uploading,  :drinks:     I'll go have a shower and come back for a look. Fork brace looks VERY nice.


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on August 05, 2013, 03:46:01 AM
Rest of the pics

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_05_08_13_3_43_17_0.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_05_08_13_3_43_19_1.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_05_08_13_3_43_22_2.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_05_08_13_3_43_25_3.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_05_08_13_3_43_27_4.jpeg)


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: FJscott on August 05, 2013, 08:08:20 AM
 Very cool toy, I want one. :good:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on August 05, 2013, 12:24:36 PM
Here's the first vid of the fork brace machining, currently uploading as of right now (6.22am Tue) should be online in the next hour or so. Tis ones a little longer and I had a wee programming fail at the end of it, no harm done though..
http://youtu.be/vx8UsI42c94 (http://youtu.be/vx8UsI42c94)

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on August 23, 2013, 11:29:10 PM
More progress today! Cams dialled in, both cams are spot on at tdc and I went through and correctly shimmer up the valves as they'd all changed from me relapping the valves so now the clearances are all smack on the middle tolerance.

I am getting sooo close to lifting the motor back in.. Trying to remember, am I best to fit the clutch slave now or is it best to put that on once its in the frame? Maybe next weekend I'll get the chance to put it in.. Christ its been long enough I've forgotten how to ride it..  :wacko2:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on August 24, 2013, 11:47:58 PM
 :good2: :drinks: :dance:

It's in!!!!!! Well, a little bit anyway...  :good2:

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_24_08_13_11_41_08_1.jpeg)

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_24_08_13_11_41_06_0.jpeg)

A little bit of wiggling and jacking and I managed to get that back mount lined up without too much hassle.. Could've done with another arm at one stage but I managed. Amazing how just that little step can make a job look much more manageable. Bit of an effort to ghet the motor off the bench onto the jack by myself but necessity is the mother of invention.. Oh, and I put the swing arm back on too..

Progress again..   :yahoo:

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on August 25, 2013, 03:46:44 AM
:good2: :drinks: :dance:

It's in!!!!!! Well, a little bit anyway...  :good2:

James


That's excellent James. Glad to see you didn't go overboard on disassembling the bike to remove the motor. You have also done what I have found to be the easiest way, the block under the centre stand and the floor jack.

Had you considered fitting these before you fit the frame down tubes?

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6499241225_2f13949e00_z.jpg)

Having your hand forced to re build the motor yourself (now it's done) will be much more satisfying in the end.

You are only a few hours away from riding, whoohoo!

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on August 26, 2013, 01:56:00 AM

Had you considered fitting these before you fit the frame down tubes?

([url]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6499241225_2f13949e00_z.jpg[/url])


Noel


I definitely did consider it, then forgot about it, then reminded myself again, then forgot again...

I need to bring a tap home from work and do it before I carry on, that would be smart..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on September 10, 2013, 06:28:27 PM
Morning all..

Who's been watching the racing? By racing I mean the America's Cup..  :dance2: Damn, that's a cool spectacle to see those cats powering up once they round the mark, 40+ knots in 18 knots of breeze.. I love it. I particularly love the fact little ol' us (NZ) are doing quite well, thank you.. :good:

Anyway, back in the garage..
I've realized that I spent a lot of time ensuring I got the motor back together correctly, but its been so,long since I pulled it out, nearly  a year now, that a lot of the details on how the restof it all fits back together have escaped me..  :scratch_one-s_head: So I spent a good few hours staring at bits remembering where and how they went.. Anyway, one part I did remember how to fit ws the oil cooler, however I noticed something funny, that the main top mounts on the oil cooler, that attach to the frame just above where the lower rails attach, don't line up anymore. It appears as if the frame has spread by about 5mm over the time its been sitting there in the garage with everything unbolted and de-stressed.

but apart from that I've had no time to do,much else, I start a new job on Wednesday so its been a busy few weeks sorting out all that. But hopefully back in the garage this weekend.

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on September 16, 2013, 02:10:05 AM
A little more progress again.. This is absolutely inching along but I'm giving it all the time I have, which is zero at the moment..

Sprocket cover back on, RPM spin oil filter fitted.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_16_09_13_1_56_55_1.jpeg)

Frame rails squeezed back into position and front engine mounts lubed back up and assembled. I can actually move the motor now by hand pushing on it in the frame, it was frozen solid before I pulled it all apart. Should kill off a little of the dreaded 3000rpm buzz.. I fitted the senders for my new oil temp and pressure gauges too. Going to mount a wee heat shield for them to reflect the header heat away.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/5/517_16_09_13_1_56_53_0.jpeg)

I think I'd better buy some paint and touch up the bottom of the crankcase - it really does look shit in the flash, not so bad in real normal light, but seems a shame to leave it now I've gone this far.

I still can't get my oil cooler top mount bolts to line up, I wonder if I've bashed the tab on the frame at some point when the motors been out.. It's still out of alignment by 5mm or more..

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on October 13, 2013, 02:28:47 AM
HOLY SHITBALLS!!  :wacko3:

It runs! And I actually got to go for a ride! Pics to come..

And it needs a little tweaking..
Rear brake still spongy, either lever not right or my master cyl is dead too. I bled it up  worries.
Oil temp gauge no go.
Batt not charging? Was flat after half hour ride, I've done Randys alternator upgrade..
Got a temporary stuck float on 1 carb when I pulled over to examine for leaks of any fluid, but it had cleared up by the time I got home.
Goddamn exhaust paint has cracked off already. Seriously...
Need to align the rear wheel better and recheck chain tension.

spent all day working on her and trying unsuccessfully to stream Bathurst on the laptop as its pay per view only over here..

More later, bed time now..

cheers all,

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: ribbert on October 13, 2013, 04:14:00 AM
Congratulations, it's about time!

Nothing feels as good as the engine you built yourself purring away under you, and just in time for Spring.

The tweaking? All minor stuff now it's running.

Good one!

Noel


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on October 18, 2013, 01:50:12 AM
Ok, so the FJ and I have been back on the road for a week now, and man, it feels weird to be honest.. Worked out that I've been off the bike for a year now. Uploading some pics I just took and I saw the chicken strips on my front tyre and I was like, wow, learner all over again..

The main issues I'm having are a bad miss until warm, like 1 cyinder completely dead until the bike is proper and warm, and the battery not seeming to charge up properly.
The miss is a legacy from my pre-tear down carb sync attempt, I have a Gunston Carb balancer which only works on 1 carb at a time and is pretty shit to be honest so I think I made the tune far worse by attempting to use it. The fix will be taking the bike to a guy who has a proper 4 way carb balancer and getting him to do it. That will happen this week sometime.
The battery issue, well I did the regulator fix when the motor was out so I hope I haven't crossed any wires, and the battery is brand new I  bought it as a started the tear down, but I actually think it's because I havent had the bike for a decent run yet, and the battery had sat for a year before I threw a quick pre start charge at it. So the fix so far has been to throw a decent charge at it and see how much run time that gets me.

The run in was pretty sweet, I got everything ready, pulled the plugs, removed the oil gallery plug screw in the head and cranked on the starter motor until oil came out the head gallery. It took a while.. a good minute and a half of cranking before the oil got there, but it did have to fill the cooler too. Then I threw the plugs in, set up a tank on the garage floor and went for a start.. 15 seconds of cranking and BOO-YAH!!! She's alive! 90 PSI of oil pressure straight away, no rattles or streams of oil, bit of random smoke from shit cooking off and a burning paint smell.
Threw the tank on, grabbed my gear, straight to the gas station for a big drink of 91 octane, only about 2 kms away, then onto the motorway, about 5 mins of run time to this point, into 5th at 60kph and WOT until I see 100kph, back off, drop to 60 again and repeat 5 or 6 times. This was the run in procedure suggested to me by a trusted source. It made sense when he explained it, that you want big gas pressure to blow the rings hard into the cylinder walls and seat them nicely, and that you only need to do a few times then just treat her nice for a few hundred kms, no massive revs, and no sitting at constant revs either, just glide up and down the rev range but don't baby it. Seems to be the answer so far. No smoke, no stumbles, rode for another 10 mins then pulled off the motorway to check for leaks. Fuel pissing out a float bowl, so give it a smack, straight back on the motorway and home a bit nervously hoping I'm not still pissing fuel all over my exhaust and back tyre.  By the time I got home the leak had stopped.
Pre start pic with Bathurst streaming on the new TV in the background (for you non-ANZACs, Bathurst is like a week long piss up and fist fight in the middle of nowhere in Australia on a large hill, and in the quiet patches they run a 1000km race)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/6/517_18_10_13_1_16_18_0.jpeg)

At work for the first time.. New job, new motor..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/6/517_18_10_13_1_16_21_1.jpeg)

Fork brace fitted. Gotta attach some clips to route the brake lines.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/6/517_18_10_13_1_16_23_2.jpeg)

You can see the travel on the forks - I've given it a massive panic stop to see where they compress too, no fairing interference issues for me..
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/6/517_18_10_13_1_16_25_3.jpeg)

So just a couple of issues to sort then we're away!! Summer is coming here in NZ,  :good2: :dance: :drinks:

Happy riding!!!

James


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tmkaos on November 26, 2013, 01:56:48 PM
On November 12th 2012 I started this post, and now finally a year and a bit later I'm calling it closed.  :i_am_so_happy:

I bit the bullet and took the bike to get the carbs synchronized and the jets taken back to factory. Sorry to all you folks who helped me with rejetting advice, but for whatever reason, factory is best for my bike. It was running way too rich, so even with pod filters, 4-1 exhaust and a mild port job, it didn't need richening up at all. Put the factory mains back in, needles back to middle groove and holy shit what a difference. The kookaloo is back, and it's better than ever.

Post rebuild cylinder pressures are dead on 150psi even across all 4, and now she's synchronized up she's smooth as silk and running like a dream.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone that chipped in with advise, helpful hints and support. I really do appreciate it, and we've got a great community here.

So summer is here in NZ, I've got a beautiful freshly tweaked FJ, bring it on...

Cheers, James  :good2:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: Pat Conlon on December 03, 2013, 10:16:34 PM
Well done James. Enjoy the fruits of your labor. :good2:


Title: Re: '92 140,000Km rebuild.
Post by: tderida on January 01, 2016, 06:57:40 AM
Good job James!
Inspirational and encouraging project.
Maybe it was a bit time ago but that kind of enthusiasm and effort should be appreciated.. :good2: