Bonneville Dreaming...

[fj1289]

Thought I'd start a Bonneville thread since the one in the for sale section got a little off topic. 

My goals are fairly modest for my first trip to the salt.  I think the suggestion to put together a run at a record for the 30 year FJ aniversary would be awesome.  Agree we have the technical knowledge here -- but think "we" (or at least me!) lack the salt time though... As I understand it, many, many first timers go home much more humble than when they arrived and with a much slower time slip than they had anticipated. 

I've read many descriptions trying to explain to a newby what it's like at Bonneville - racing on the moon, going 200 on a dirt road, etc.  to someone that hasnt been there yet, this is a great article on what the racing surface is like: http://saltflats.com/traction.html  - I don't know how much it may vary from run to run and day to day -- something to experience and learn from. 

The rookie program is a day long if I understand it right.  You have to work your way up to speed, gaining license levels as you go faster.  

The altitude also costs horsepower compared to sea level, but also decreases aero forces slightly as compared to sea level. 

For the SCTA, the class structure is interesting - based on "frame" type, engine type, engine size and fuel utilized. 
P is Production.  Production means externally identical to stock (but unlimited internal modifications) - stock exhaust, stock carbs/ throttle bodies, etc.  (only production engine allowed, only gas allowed - no nitrous oxide, no turbos, etc).
M is Modified from stock -- but with a twist > Modified = "Naked" bikes (like in the second photo at the beginning of the other thread.  I think Rollie Free may have misunderstood the "naked" concept slightly...!)
M PS is Modified Partial Streamlining -- i.e. fairings are used.  Fairings don't have to be stock or production items.  The general idea is the rider has to be visible from the top and side of the bike.
A is Special Construction -- essentially purpose built or too heavily modified to conform to M. By its very nature, an M class bike does not qualify to run in A class (not allowed to run "up" a class).  A also = Naked.  
APS is Special Construction Partial Streamlining.  Makes sense sort of.
Then there are the "odd balls" in my opinion!
S is Streamliner (fully (or even partially) enclosed bodywork.
SC is Sidecar - rule here is the bodywork must not impede rider exit. 
SCS is Sidecar Streamliner 

The next division is engine size --1350cc for most FJ's. 1650 is a bit much, and 1000 is too small. 

Now, for engine types
No designation means a normally aspirated overhead cam engine 
P is Pushrod
V is Vintage (they mean really old - FJ is not even close)
B is blown (turbo or supercharged -- NOT blown as in rods sticking out of the cases!).  

Finally is fuels
G is Gas - must buy from on site vendor and seal the tank. There are various blends of race gas available
F is Fuel - almost anything else goes that you're willing to put in the tank - to include Nitromethane!  Note - using Nitrous Oxide  puts you in the fuel category.  One of the few cases where you can race "up" a level is in Fuel - you can run gas in the fuel class.  

So, that gives a few options of what class to run an FJ in -- which happens to be smack dab in the middle of Hayabusa territory. 
Most FJs would be run in MPS-G 1350.  The record is 223.237!  
MPS-F 1350 is "only" 221.241
Hmm, pull the fairing off...M-G 1350 record is 200.750
M-F 1350 is 203.121
Let's think turbo...naked looks like this M-BG 1350 is 222.714
M-BF 1350 is 218.153
With the fairing on we are looking at MPS-BG 1350 253.297
MPS-BF 1350 247.314

No "easy" records here that's for sure!  Especially at Bonneville where it is a lot easier to "overpower" the salt as compared to asphalt.  Traction becomes the limiting factor - not horsepower (or so I've read...).  A good aero package helps make more speed speed before you get traction critical.  Which seems to be the big rub in my mind.  I definitely want to run the streetbike on the salt and see what it'll do. I've got what should be a "good" 1314 engine and should be able to add a couple stages of nitrous -- maybe putting down 180 HP at altitude?  Maybe work up to 200 HP?  Realistically thinking that may be capable of 180 MPH, but expect 160-170 MPH based on the learning curve.  

So, what to do the next year?  Of course I'd like to make a serious run at a record.  Best way to do that would probably be in the MPS classes using some of the fairings available from Airtech.   But, I'd really like to do it with something that some can still recognize as an FJ (even if extensively modified).  How about a sidecar?  SC-G 1350 record is 199.021
SC-F 1350 is 216.208.  Really getting sick of these #%<king Busas!   
Turbo sidecar?  SC-BG 1350 is 160.406.  That could be doable...
SC-BF 1350 is 142.580.  Hmmm...

Then again, the Streamliner S-BG 1350 record appears to be open....

And I don't see any SCS 1350 records...

[Firehawk068]

Just Do It!
I'll stop by and monitor your progress..........

[movenon]

I will go watch... Only 6 hours down the road. Temps are pretty hot there in Aug.. No shade.... Wendover has a couple of Casino's. 
George

[Dads_FJ]

That's what I was getting at to, just observing!  Just picked up a camper and want to put it to good use with the family. 

[movenon]

That's what I was getting at to, just observing!  Just picked up a camper and want to put it to good use with the family. 

Get a good generator for the a/c  .
George

[andyb]

Think you're going to find yourself running out of gear awful early.   Even 18/38 is going to run out awful quick, assuming that you've got the power to shove the brick through the air at speed.

[fj1289]

How about a FJ 30 Year Anniversary fjowners.com Bonneville Project?

With all the know how on here we should be able to shoot for the record.

Is this possible?

Jeff

Just Do It!
I'll stop by and monitor your progress..........

Will definitely run the street bike down the salt with a few mods.

This will be at the Speed Week event Aug 9-15'2014 -- and has to meet SCTA rules and tech.  

The question comes on the blown sidecar idea. Making a serious run at the sidecar record with a bike that is still recognizable as an FJ will take some serious work and assistance... Alan, you'd be doing a lot more than monitoring!  

Here's some thoughts on the project - would love to hear from others too.

Overall concept I see is a stretched and lowered FJ with a fabricated platform and wheel as required by SCTA to meet sidecar rules.  And would have to run a turbocharged engine (or supercharged, but really think turbo would be easier and cheaper in most cases).

Some of the parts I have:
FJ frames (a 90 and an 85 I think)
90 swing arm stretched 4 "
1314 engine (ported head, oversized valves, "street" cams, coil spring clutch conversion).  Planned to put this in the street bike this spring...
Stock 1200 engine (currently in the street bike)
Misc engine parts ... Probably enough stock stuff to put together an wntire engine, plus some goodies: set of XJR rods, set stock cylinders and a set of oversized sleeves, maybe 1250 and 1380 wiseco pistons (pretty sure the 1314s were stolen - and maybe one of the other sets - have to look)
Dyna 2000 ignition and coils
ThunderAce rims - front and rear (front is on street bike now until I get the PM Chicane repaired)
Beasley fiberglass drag bike body
90 Fairing - damaged on right side

Some big items that will be needed:
Front forks - could use any year FJ (won't have front brakes!!!)
Frame cut and welded to take front end -- OR -- find/fabricate triple clamps with 25 mm offset -- OR -- use 1st gen R1 forks with later R1 triples with 25mm offset
FJ 17x3 front rim for the sidecar wheel
Rear shock and linkage -- OR -- run solid suspension/strut?
Modified tank - sloped to allow more laid down riding position
Custom subframe for lower seat position and for Beasley body
Modify Beasley body to suit
Modify FJ fairing for better coverage (possibly cut and section so front is slightly narrower and flares out slightly wider to rear to get rider completely behind the fairing) but not ruining the "FJ profile"
Turbo -- maybe repurpose a car turbo?
Turbo manifold -- Mr Turbo XS1100 manifold?  Fabricate manifold?  Modify sidewinder header to mount the turbo?
Plenum?  
Blow thru system?  Draw thru?

So, if "we" press with this as an fjowners project for 2014, what type of help and expertise is available?
Anyone smart on turbos?
Anyone able to weld aluminum to fab a plenum?
Are people willing to donate or loan parts needed?   Parts can be returned after the event.
Anyone able to locate or fabricate a turbo header?  
Anyone have a suitable car turbo?  Maybe a stock turbo removed to fit a larger one on your (or your friend's) Subaru for example...
Etc,
Etc,
Etc

[racerrad8]

George,

You put the picture of Chris' Bonneville dream on the wrong topic.



Look, the white salt flats ( no that is not snow), rigid forks for the side car, the side car itself, the fin on the front fender to keep it going straight at high speed, the rear fender pad so he can get laid out for better aerodynamics, the more tapered tank for a better tuck and the aerodynamic face covering. I believe if he removes the cork from the mask at over 200 it will help inflate the leathers, stretching them which make the leather smoother & faster. Heck even the headlight has been modified to keep the aerodynamic drag from the outer right by painting it black to absorb more heat thus reducing drag.

The highly modified FJ power plant with the exposed cylinder head for improved cooling...

Chris, what is the gun for...

shooting those busa's or to see if you are indeed, "faster than a speeding bullet"

Randy - RPM  

[Firehawk068]

The question comes on the blown sidecar idea. Making a serious run at the sidecar record with a bike that is still recognizable as an FJ will take some serious work and assistance... Alan, you'd be doing a lot more than monitoring!  

I could help with mechanical stuff, but you certainly wouldn't want me riding the sidecar! I weigh at least twice what you'd probably want for that position..........probably more 

I sold all my Subaru stuff some years ago, including my spare turbo I kept in the garage for years.............It was off my XT Turbo coupe 1.8. It was smallish, but might have worked for an FJ.......Darn!

I certainly could donate some spare wrenching ability from time to time......

[fj1289]

George,

You put the picture of Chris' Bonneville dream on the wrong topic.



Look, the white salt flats ( no that is not snow), rigid forks for the side car, the side car itself, the fin on the front fender to keep it going straight at high speed, the rear fender pad so he can get laid out for better aerodynamics, the more tapered tank for a better tuck and the aerodynamic face covering. I believe if he removes the cork from the mask at over 200 it will help inflate the leathers, stretching them which make the leather smoother & faster. Heck even the headlight has been modified to keep the aerodynamic drag from the outer right by painting it black to absorb more heat thus reducing drag.

The highly modified FJ power plant with the exposed cylinder head for improved cooling...

Chris, what is the gun for...

shooting those busa's or to see if you are indeed, "faster than a speeding bullet"

Randy - RPM  

Randy!  WTF!  You can't be exposing all the secret squirrel stuff like that!   Why do you think we've been stuck in Poland for an extra week?  This stuff isn't easy to find or smuggle out...