RPM Fuel Injection System

[oz.fj]

Hi Randy
Any updates on the fuel injection...

[Pat Conlon]

Darran, it would be best to e-mail Randy.

He checks in here only on occasion.

[ribbert]

Darran, it would be best to e-mail Randy.

He checks in here only on occasion.

So, did he actually follow through and abandon us over a few page 3 photos?(which I notice has predictably run its course and died) or is his sustained absence over the taunting and comments that were made?

I just realised he has posted for a while.

Noel

[Andells1200]

G'day oz.fj here is a system on ebay. I wonder if anybody has retrofitted from an XJR1300 before!

[Andells1200]

I might try that again 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-XJR1300-FUEL-INJECTION-CONVERSION-SUIT-FJ1100-AND-FJ1200-XJR1200-COMPLETE-/131395011326?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e97c0c2fe

[oldktmdude]

G'day oz.fj here is a system on ebay. I wonder if anybody has retrofitted from an XJR1300 before!

Don't quote me on this but I think I remember reading somewhere, that there is a problem with the throttle bodies fouling on the FJ frame.
                                                                                                                                                                                                Pete.

[ribbert]

What is it that appeals to you about FI on the FJ, what do you expect it to do that the carbs don't that warrants all the money and friggin' around to make it work?

Just curious.

Noel

[Arnie]

What is it that appeals to you about FI on the FJ, what do you expect it to do that the carbs don't that warrants all the money and friggin' around to make it work?

Just curious.

Noel

You just wouldn't understand.  
Fuel Injection is magic.  
Makes 3x more power, uses 15% less fuel, and the engine is always raring to go.  
And, nothing to wear out, or get dirty, or have leaky diaphragms.  
And so easy to tune.... All you need is a laptop and an eprom burner.  
Plus, the system tells you what is wrong
(if you can read the diagnostic codes and have the proper connector).  
And, when or if you ever need to troubleshoot the system,
you get to double think all the symptoms because the EMU is already
compensating for the spurious signals and parameters its getting.  
Oh yeah, you're also dealing with high pressure fuel lines and pumps.  
And being a digital system, it'll have a limited and fixed number of discrete
throttle positions so the difference between 2% throttle and 3% throttle may
give you a 10% difference in engine output. Can you say "touchy" ?

Give me a sorted set of carbs every day.

Arnie

[FJ1100mjk]

^^ This could be one of those rare occasions that you can compare (albeit loosely) an automotive application to a motorcycle's. I have a car with close to 130,000 miles on it, that is equipped with multi-port fuel injection that I purchased with 33,000 miles on it. Since I've owned it, I have never had to once service its fuel injection system. I can't say that about any of the carbs on any of the FJs that I have.

I know:

1. The car is a daily driver, so it doesn't sit idle for extended periods like the bikes.

2. The car was made in this century. Unlike the FJs.

3. Something(s) else I can't think of right now.

Anyways, it's an observation on my part. The carbs on an FJ are a fact of it, and I've been around carbureted bikes all of my life, so I am used to their care. However, lack of servicing needed on the car with fuel injection has been most welcome. 

[Flynt]

What is it that appeals to you about FI on the FJ...

My perspective comes from z cars of various configs over the years and current FJ with FCRs:

Case #1 - I had a 240z with the std 2x Hitachi SU setup that I converted to 3x DCOE Webers.  Throttle response was vastly improved to my taste and the accelerator pump + 3 fuel circuits allowed you to get it running like a fuel injected car (with significant dyno time), but only in a narrow temp and altitude range...  ended up needing a set of jets for winter and for summer (pilots and mains).  This car needed balancing and jet change 2x per year, but ran great and the increased power (about 15%) and throttle response were worth it for me.  If I took it above about 6,000 feet, it would get too rich and run like crap...  It also went from 20+mpg to 12-14mpg and my driving habits did't change much.

Case #2 - Our fellow FJ'er Dan has the 240 above, but now it has a 3 liter Rebello built 280z engine with tuned Hitachi SUs.  My 3 liter is the same engine but has TWM side draft throttle bodies (essentially the DCOE Webers with an injector and an air bypass) and the cars are virtually identical in power (we confirm this frequently  ).  I get the throttle response of the Webers combined with the closed-loop auto trim that compensates for temp and altitude, so now all I need to do is balance them once every couple of years.  I also get about 1.4x the mileage he gets with the SU setup...

Case #3 - Wizard has FCRs that are dyno tuned really nicely.  To my tastes the throttle response is (again) vastly improved (accelerator pumps) and the engine probably makes more power (don't have data here...  maybe Pat should bring his bike up once Randy gets the dyno), but I get about 30 mpg on average.  The get a bit rich(er) in the winter, but so far have run great in all temps and altitudes I've exposed them to.  They do run better at dyno-tuned conditions, but so far have required no rebalancing (good, cause it is a bitch to do it with these things) and I've been too lazy to mess with the "winter jets/summer jets" that it could probably use.  Runs like a hose and I'm delighted...  but

Case #4 - Wizard will get fuel injection when Randy wants it to.  I hope to replicate Case #2 (mostly the mpg improvement with no power loss) and that's why I want FI on the FJ...

Frank

[Pat Conlon]

Last I checked with Randy, the FI system is still up and running. He has solved the sensor issue.
He needs Dyno time to properly calibrate and build the maps, specifically the high rpm, high speed maps.
The thought of strapping his lap top on his bike and going 130mph down a runway to gather data, is not appealing to him.
He was looking at installing a dyno at his shop $$$ ...which would be way cool.

Frank, the stock BS36's really hold back my 1350 at anything above 7k.

[Flynt]

Frank, the stock BS36's really hold back my 1350 at anything above 7k.

Sorry to hear that...  your poor Kookaloo must need constant attention. 

Frank

[FJmonkey]

When I was at the RPM shop a few months ago Randy described the FI on the bone stock '86 to be a huge improvement in performance. The response time between twisting the wrist and Kookaloo was quick, it could lift the front with stock gearing. Considering the improved fuel economy and added performance, I am following this development as an option to punching out my engine. It seems like I could add HP and still have control in how I want to use it. Once he has a Dyno set up we can see numbers and speculate less on the black magic of FI.

[JPaganel]

And being a digital system, it'll have a limited and fixed number of discrete
throttle positions so the difference between 2% throttle and 3% throttle may
give you a 10% difference in engine output. Can you say "touchy" ?

Arnie

That's a new one on me. How do you figure this? Even with a throttle by wire, this wouldn't be the case, because increments will be small.  Throttle on FI does the same thing it does in carbs - opens the hole where the air comes in.

I have a car with close to 130,000 miles on it, that is equipped with multi-port fuel injection that I purchased with 33,000 miles on it. Since I've owned it, I have never had to once service its fuel injection system. I can't say that about any of the carbs on any of the FJs that I have.

This.

I have always had old cars. All but a couple were FI. I have had to service the fuel system on a couple of them, but this really is a very rare occasion. My current 1995 pickup hasn't needed any FI service in the four or five years I've owned it.  Whatever this "dealing" with high pressure hoses and pumps is supposed to be, it's really no big thing.

[fj1289]

What is it that appeals to you about FI on the FJ, what do you expect it to do that the carbs don't that warrants all the money and friggin' around to make it work?

Just curious.

Noel

For me, it was a logical progression when I had my FCRs stolen (along with all the other parts and tools that were in the trailer).   The stock carbs definately hold back a modified engine, I don't likes he street manners is the Mikuni RS carbs, and the correct set of FCRs were expensive and difficult to find.  About that time Marc Rittner was selling a lot of FJ related item to fund his 200 mph effort on his Aprilia -- so I ended up with the FI bits.  In the end it just seemed smarter to go down this road for me....

Chris