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running problems

Started by badams, July 24, 2015, 11:44:44 AM

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FJ_Hooligan

How do you have the plug wires routed? 

Which coils to which cylinders?
DavidR.

racerrad8

Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 28, 2015, 05:04:20 PM
When you say that your plugs are now "dry fouled" do you mean wet with gas?

I would guess he mean there is enough carbon build up that the spark is not jumping the gap and following the carbon to ground without a spark.

http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/techinfo/troubleshooting/03/index.html

I new set of spark plugs will fix that.

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM

Pat Conlon

Very good, thanks Randy!

Love this place
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Flynt

My 1984 FJ1100 (stock + 4-1 RPM exhaust + Unipods + 4 degrees of advance):

Mains 117.5 (max power)
Needles 1mm out (need another .5mm, still lean surge at WOT in the midrange)
Pilot/Air 42.5/160 (uniform low range,  best transition to midrange)
Floats .7mm lower (lower fuel level, to clean up low range fatness)

Your sizes just look way low to me.  I'm not sure why, but the 1100 motor appears to want fuel to run right.  I set this up with 3 runs through the Factory Pro method.

Frank
There's plenty of time for sleep in the grave...

ribbert

Quote from: racerrad8 on July 28, 2015, 07:45:09 PM

I would guess he mean there is enough carbon build up that the spark is not jumping the gap and following the carbon to ground without a spark.

http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/techinfo/troubleshooting/03/index.html

I new set of spark plugs will fix that.

Randy - RPM

If they're just dirty, clean them. Even cheap plugs should be good for 20,000 miles, iridium or platinum plugs more miles than you're ever likely to rack up .
If they have done significantly less than that you are throwing money in the bin if you replace them just because they're dirty.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

krusty

I'll tell you a little story about plugs. My next door neighbour had rebuilt a RM125 for his son. He was having trouble getting it to run and said that it was killing plugs. The thing was bogging down and cutting out after running for a short while on full throttle. He'd replaced about 8 or 9 plugs at about 15 bucks a hit before he called me over to have a look at the bike.
He was also having trouble getting it to idle and this was the first thing I looked at and found the air screw needed adjusting. Got it to idle ok with no hesitation when the throttle was "blipped". I checked the plug and he had replaced the expensive race (OEM) plug with and ordinary one, a NGK B9ES I think it was.
I asked if he had one of the 'dead' plugs and checked it for spark. Nothing. I then got him to kick the motor over while I looked down inside the plug and I could see a faint spark deep within. Fouled plug!
Then I asked him what oil he was using and he said the same as what was in his mower and chain saw and weed whacker. An aha moment. He had a shop manual and when I had a look at it it recommended a full synthetic race oil. I says there's your problem. I cleaned all his 'dead' plugs for him and he went got some of the correct oil and the engine now runs perfect.
Big lesson here? READ THE FRICKIN MANUAL.
And dirty plugs can be cleaned and re used. He now has a lifetime supply.

91 FJ1200
84 FJ1100 x 2
85 FJ1100
89 GL1500
76 CB750F1
72 CB350F
63 C92 x 2
59 C76
62 C100
63 C100
60 Colleda 250TA x 3
63 Suzuki MD50
77 DT125E
77 DT175E x 2
79 DT250F

FJmonkey

The glass is not half full, it was engineered with a 2X safety factor.

'86 Ambulance - Bent frame, cracked case, due for an overhaul
'89 Stormy Blue - Suits my Dark Side

ribbert

Quote from: krusty on July 29, 2015, 07:11:22 PM
I'll tell you a little story about plugs......


Prior to electronic ignition and fuel injection, cleaning and re gapping plugs was standard procedure (as per any manufacturers schedule) on intermediate services. Every workshop had a plug cleaning machine/tester. I imagine only long established garages would still have one these days.
I have still have an old one I use occasionally with old cars and small engine equipment.

I changed my last set of standard plugs after 40,000km and was disappointed it made not one iota of difference to starting or running.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

badams

Re-engaged the bike last night after walking away for a while.

The bike will not start now.

Went through the carbs again- good

voltage to the coils and IC unit- good

have a side stand bypass installed

primary and secondary coils resistance- good

pick up coils measures out at 163ish ohms. This is out of spec with both my repair manuals. I measured my parts bike pick up coils and measured the same.

Am I doing something wrong with measuring?

movenon

Life isn't about having the best, but about making the best of what you have...

1990 FJ 1200

Pat Conlon

Re: Pick up coils....Both Clymer and Haynes manuals are wrong.
I went through this last year: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=13448.0
The Genuine Yamaha Service Manual (GYSM) is what you should use which specifies 149-183 ohms at 68*F

Good news: Your pick up coils are fine.

As George says above^^ check your run/stop switch. The power to your ignition box runs through this switch.
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

FJmonkey

Quote from: badams on August 19, 2015, 10:14:34 AM

The bike will not start now.


Does it turn over but not start? Or won't turn over?
The glass is not half full, it was engineered with a 2X safety factor.

'86 Ambulance - Bent frame, cracked case, due for an overhaul
'89 Stormy Blue - Suits my Dark Side

FJ1100mjk

Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 19, 2015, 04:28:07 PM
As George says above^^ check your run/stop switch. The power to your ignition box runs through this switch.

He cleaned/checked the kill switch on 07/25, see page one of two. And he's stated that voltage to the IC is "good".
Platinum Zircon-encrusted Gold Member

Iron Balls #00002175
www.ironballs.com


movenon

Quote from: FJ1100mjk on August 19, 2015, 05:31:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 19, 2015, 04:28:07 PM
As George says above^^ check your run/stop switch. The power to your ignition box runs through this switch.

He cleaned/checked the kill switch on 07/25, see page one of two. And he's stated that voltage to the IC is "good".

I was just making sure it wasn't bumped in the "Stop" position. Stranger things have happened. 

Back to Marks question  "Does it turn over but not start? Or won't turn over?"

As a note, "Capn Ron" had a no start problem once and when he used a timing light (remember those) on number 1 plug wire and checking the firing at the timing rotor and found it out of time.  He had to replace the TCI/DCI unit.  Also a good way to see if you are getting any voltage to the plug.  Ron can elaborate, I am going from memory of he post.

George

Life isn't about having the best, but about making the best of what you have...

1990 FJ 1200

Capn Ron

Quote from: movenon on August 19, 2015, 06:32:49 PM

As a note, "Capn Ron" had a no start problem once and when he used a timing light (remember those) on number 1 plug wire and checking the firing at the timing rotor and found it out of time.  He had to replace the TCI/DCI unit.  Also a good way to see if you are getting any voltage to the plug.  Ron can elaborate, I am going from memory of he post.

George

Yeah, you got that recollection right, George.  Like the OP, I systematically went through each and every system trying to sort out the problem.  I learned a lot in the process and even added the coil relay mod because I thought the spark looked weak.  Ultimately, it turned out to be a failing ignitor and some superhero (okay, it was Randy) mailed one across the country for me to use for the rest of my trip.

That all being said, my symptoms were different.  When it did start, the bike would run like a top!  When it didn't start...well, that was really it.  It would crank, but not ever run.  On some random attempt, it'd fire right up and run perfectly until I shut it down 150 miles later for fuel.  The timing light helped me identify that on the non-start occasions, the ignitor was choosing to start the timing at 180* off.

I read through this thread and the only thing I could come up with that hasn't already been covered is spark plugs.  Hold on, hold on...before this is dismissed right away (as the cleaning of the plugs has been discussed)...I had an odd issue with another Yamaha engine.  Had a Yamaha SX230 jet boat with twin marinized R1 engines.  Ran just great!  Good lord that thing was fast!  As I was getting up to speed on the YamahaJetBoaters forum, I kept seeing this recurring response to just about ANY engine related issues.  The collective would jump in and bark, "CHANGE the spark plugs!"  Most of the seasoned forum members even kept a spare set of 8 on board.  Huh?  I mean, what can go wrong with a spark plug?  About 6 months later, i was buzzing across Lake Piru and my starboard engine started cutting out...this manifested it self with sputtering, lurching and a hard pull to the right.  I limped it back to shore and home.  I changed the spark plugs and problem SOLVED!  Apparently there's a fine wire inside the Irridium plugs that breaks...sometimes the wire will touch...sometimes there's a gap.  With essentially a second gap in the plug, there isn't much left over for the intended spark gap.  I asked my brother if the R1 forum talked about this at all being as we were using the same engine.  Nope.  He'd never heard of such a thing.

With as much effort, frustration and down-time already involved with this problem, plugs can be changed out cheaply and easily and that can be eliminated along with the other systems already checked off the list.  If there's a spare ignitor lying around that you could even just temporarily swap in, that could be eliminated as well.

Best of luck...these can be VERY frustrating!
Cap'n Ron. . .


There are two types of people in the world...Those who put people into categories...and those who don't.