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Electronic cruise control?

Started by great white, August 06, 2015, 09:50:35 AM

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movenon

Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal.  I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George

makes sense. The Venture also has self cancelling. I need to get it apart to verify if the reed switch/speed sensor outputs the same signal. If it does, it's almost a plug it in and go scenario...

On the self cancelling system there is a distance component of cancelling the switch. The distance is about 490 feet ? (150 meters ?) at slow speed but if above a certain speed the time component will kick in at 10 seconds to cancel. The switch has something to do with the controlling of those factors.
George
Life isn't about having the best, but about making the best of what you have...

1990 FJ 1200

TexasDave

Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:46:15 PM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal.  I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George

makes sense. The Venture also has self cancelling. I need to get it apart to verify if the reed switch/speed sensor outputs the same signal. If it does, it's almost a plug it in and go scenario...

On the self cancelling system there is a distance component of cancelling the switch it think.
George
The reed switch is cycled by a magnet in the speedometer. It signals the cancelling system after a number of revolutions thus the distance.  Dave
A pistol is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have one you will never need one again.

movenon

Quote from: TexasDave on August 06, 2015, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:46:15 PM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal.  I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George

makes sense. The Venture also has self cancelling. I need to get it apart to verify if the reed switch/speed sensor outputs the same signal. If it does, it's almost a plug it in and go scenario...


On the self cancelling system there is a distance component of cancelling the switch it think.
George
The reed switch is cycled by a magnet in the speedometer. It signals the cancelling system after a number of revolutions thus the distance.  Dave

Thanks Dave  :good2:.
George
Life isn't about having the best, but about making the best of what you have...

1990 FJ 1200

great white

Quote from: TexasDave on August 06, 2015, 08:52:23 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:46:15 PM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 08:30:01 PM
Quote from: movenon on August 06, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
On the read switch, I think it is tied to the self cancelling turn signal system. Somewhere in the service manual it explains the theory of the self cancelling turn signal.  I am out of town and away from my manual at the moment.
George

makes sense. The Venture also has self cancelling. I need to get it apart to verify if the reed switch/speed sensor outputs the same signal. If it does, it's almost a plug it in and go scenario...


On the self cancelling system there is a distance component of cancelling the switch it think.
George
The reed switch is cycled by a magnet in the speedometer. It signals the cancelling system after a number of revolutions thus the distance.  Dave
Makes sense.

Perhaps it might be the same "sensor" or maybe the Venture is a "dual purpose" sensor, although i doubt that as a speed sensor is usually just a magnet and gear ring.

If they are different, maybe its swappable from Venture cluster to FJ. They sure look to be the same footprint on the back of the guages...

Pat Conlon

The Venture also had self canceling turn signals, so it makes sense that it would be similar.
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Flynt

Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 09:03:43 PM
aa speed sensor is usually just a magnet and gear ring.

The speedo is a magnetically coupled instrument...  having a reed switch in the housing would give you a speed signal for cruise.  No chains or gears required.

Frank
There's plenty of time for sleep in the grave...

great white

Quote from: Flynt on August 06, 2015, 10:08:08 PM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 09:03:43 PM
aa speed sensor is usually just a magnet and gear ring.

The speedo is a magnetically coupled instrument...  having a reed switch in the housing would give you a speed signal for cruise.  No chains or gears required.

Frank
Yup, perhaps i just wasn't  descriptive enough in my response.

Most speed sensors consist of a ring with gaps on it and a magnetic sensor that reacts to the teeth/ gap change in the magnetic field  as they pass. There is no physical coupling or contact.

That's modern sensors, the fj/Venture is probably similar, bit a bit more primitive.

A Reed switch would actually be the opposite construction of modern speed sensors where the magnet would be rotating and the Reed switch would be performing the function of the toothed ring. A modern sensor, in theory, should be more reliable as there would be no moving parts. Withna reed switch, the little metal piece inside isnflopping backa nd forth in response to the magneic feild. But my Venture is  30 odd years old and still cancelling turns signals fine so....

I've calibrated a couple motorcycle speedos before, but they were even older than the fj/venture ones.I'll see what I see once I get the clusters apart.

Im just hoping the reed switch signal is compatible with the VentureCruise "brain". But with Yamaha being pretty much a  " parts bin builder" I'm betting its compatible, if not the same. They're both two wire parts and even the wire colors are the same.

I think maybe we're saying the same thing, just in different ways.

:)

great white

AHA!

I have discovered why the two handlebar switch assemblies look so similar.

Apparently some countries received models that the light could be turned on/off and just tail and meter lights:



Maybe South America or Europe? Pretty sure this sis all NA got:



They even used the Venture style LH switch assembly to incorporate a "flash to pass" option. They used the same housing and what would be the "PTT" (push to talk) was labeled the "pass" switch. You can see it here:



Yup, same as my venture switch, labelled differently and without the venture choke lever.

Ah yammy, such a  parts bin company.

Luckily, it makes is super easy to swap parts too!

:)

great white

Did a little bit of work on it today. Mainly, just did the handlebar switch and wiring.

First thing I did though was run up to the Bay of Fundy to a little place I know for a nice hearty breakfast by the water:





Belly full and fast rid back down the mountain to the valley. I tore the bike apart.

I would like to say it was just drop the venture throttle housing on, but it wasn't quite that simple. Seems there were a few connector changes between 85 and 89. The venture throttle was not a plug in deal.

I blew both housings apart. The basic castings had the same part numbers, and the switches were same same. But i had to strip the FJ switches and wiring and transfer them over to the venture housing in order to use the venture cruise switches.

Then I had to pull all the pins out of the FJ connector and pull the sleeve off the wiring harness.

With that all done, I had to splice (soldered and heat shrink-ed) the power feed for the cruise to the keyed power wire for the "on/off" switch. It is done the same way on the venture, so I'm not re-inventing the wheel here.

Then it was try to get all that loose wiring back in to the OEM FJ wire sleeve. I ended up using a long length of 20 thou safety wire to pull the wires back and forth through the sleeve.

Finally, it was throttle cables and bolt it back on to the bar.

The finished product looks pretty simple, even if it took me a couple hours to sort it:



While I was into the guts of it, I cleaned and lubricated all the switch contacts and pivots. Works like new.

I also cleaned the buttons and repainted the letters and indicators with white paint.

I had a look a the throttle arrangement. It's going to be a bit of a problem.

The junction box isn't the problem, it's the cables.

The stock FJ cables are too short at the the FJ coupler to work with the Venture cruise junction and the venture cables are far too long and don't have the right ends on the sheaths.

So I'm kind stumped. I think I can use the stock FJ cable sheaths, as they line up nicely with the Venture cruise box. I can probably pick up a knackered old set cheaply somewhere. I may end up having to make my own cable innards though.

I haven't cast lead in quite a while, but I may have to brush up on those skills.....

ribbert

There are places will make up new, near frictionless cables to your own specs for not much money.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

great white

Quote from: ribbert on August 08, 2015, 08:23:15 PM
There are places will make up new, near frictionless cables to your own specs for not much money.

Noel

I wish there was in Nova Scotia, but I know of none.

Shipping is killer from anywhere to here....

Arnie

Check your local HD dealer, especially if they've been in business for a while.
Harley's are frequently "customized" and need one-0rf custom cables.
If they can't do the job, ask them who can.

Arnie

great white

Quote from: Arnie on August 09, 2015, 02:15:59 AM
Check your local HD dealer, especially if they've been in business for a while.
Harley's are frequently "customized" and need one-0rf custom cables.
If they can't do the job, ask them who can.

Arnie


I'll give it a try, but they're all just resellers around here. Dealerships come and go as cusrom harelys are not a big selling item around these parts.

It's mostly just "buy a stock one, drop lots of chrome and straight pipes on it and ride around with your dentisist and lawyer friends dressed like a bad ass" crowd....

PaulG

Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 09:50:35 AM
I broke my right wrist a long time ago. My problem is I can't hold the throttle very long without my hand going numb....

If you are succesful with this mod, you could make a sideline out of doing this.  And I would be your first customer!  :good2:  I have a similar problem.  From my last big off in '97, the last thing to let go were my hands from my death grip as I did the 1 1/2 somersault with the 1/2 twist over the car (score: 8.7 - got screwed by the Russian judge as usual).  As a result I pulled all the ligaments and tendons from my fingertips to my elbows.  Since then numbness, pain, and grip level has been a constant issue.  The cramp busters help a bit but not enough for the long trips.

I would gladly ride the 1,500 km to Nova Scotia (via the US cuz upper NY, VT, & MA is wonderful biking country) to get this done.

Just a thought....  :pardon:
1992 FJ1200 ABS
YouTube Channel Paul G


great white

Quote from: PaulG on August 11, 2015, 09:56:53 AM
Quote from: great white on August 06, 2015, 09:50:35 AM
I broke my right wrist a long time ago. My problem is I can't hold the throttle very long without my hand going numb....

If you are succesful with this mod, you could make a sideline out of doing this.  And I would be your first customer!  :good2:  I have a similar problem.  From my last big off in '97, the last thing to let go were my hands from my death grip as I did the 1 1/2 somersault with the 1/2 twist over the car (score: 8.7 - got screwed by the Russian judge as usual).  As a result I pulled all the ligaments and tendons from my fingertips to my elbows.  Since then numbness, pain, and grip level has been a constant issue.  The cramp busters help a bit but not enough for the long trips.

I would gladly ride the 1,500 km to Nova Scotia (via the US cuz upper NY, VT, & MA is wonderful biking country) to get this done.

Just a thought....  :pardon:

Nah, I've got a full time job and there would be no money in this. Only way it would work is if a fella had a wrecking yard full of 83-91 Yamaha ventures.

Even then, you'd be lucky to do one or two a year.

I'm willing to bet most of the components are also either discontinued or priced ridiculously high. Good thing is they are usually simpe to fix (diaphragm here and vacuum pot there) and the electronics are mostly solid state (ie: very robust and very often, fixable when burned out). They're also usually low usage items even if the bike is old or high miles so they're in recent shape (unless the bike is left outside or neglected).

But, anyone could duplicate what I'm doing. It's actually fairly simple electronically. It's just reading diagrams and running wires.

Hardest part here is going to be making cables and that's not as hard as it sounds.

It's probably simpler to use the 86-93 Venture cruise and the vacuum pump and dump valve are one assembly vice the two pieces on the 83-85. You would also get accel/resume/decel instead of just SET on the 83-85.

I'm fine with just a SET selection on my fj. Does all I need and more.