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New fork springs? But that costs money!

Started by fudge12, August 19, 2016, 09:47:31 AM

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giantkiller

Yah I park at work, so when I'm coming down the main aisle I can see it. Makes me happy.
86 fj1350r
86 fj1380t turbo drag toy (soon)
87 fj1200 865 miles crashed for parts
89 fj1200 touring 2up
87 fzr1000 crashed
87 fzr750r Human Race teams world endurance champion
93 fzr600 Vance n hines ltd for sale
Custom chopper I built
Mini chopper I built for my daughter just like the big 1

fudge12

Trust me, I'm with you.  If the FJ was my only bike, I'd be pouring all of my bike budget into it.  However, having had newer bikes, I realize that no matter what you do to the suspension, the frame is still flexy.  No matter how much HP you make, it's not as smooth as a newer bike.  55lbs lighter than stock is still 30lbs heavier than a stock FZ1, and 50 lbs heavier than an FZ1 with an aftermarket exhaust, plus the FZ1 had 40K mile valve checks.  FJ12 has a wheelbase 15mm longer than a hyabusa, and 45mm longer than a first gen FZ1.  Progress is awesome.  My Versys has cartridge forks from the factory, and an R1 rear shock.  I know how good suspension feels.  My FZ1 was piped and jetted to 140rwhp, no mods to the engine.  I know how good it can get.  I don't, however, judge bikes purely by specs. I just don't see the value for me in spending that much money to make a bike that is still limited by it's 30year old frame.   I don't hold it against anyone who spends the money to improve their bike, if I was to put a dollar figure on my GL1000 that still doesn't run I'd cry.  Don't care, it makes me happy.  My MT-16 will probably never run well if at all, but it still makes me giggle every time I sit on it. But having had as many bikes as I have recently, I'd rather enjoy the FJ for what it is and trade it for something else in a year or two.  If I wanted absolute performance I'd have picked up an R1 or a Ducati at some point.  Not my thing.  I've found that 100hp is about what I can reasonably use on the street, so that's my upper limit now.  At the dyno pull I took the FJ to, the bike immediately prior to me made 220+HP.  More than double what the FJ did.  Didn't mean he enjoyed his bike more than I enjoy mine, or that his was any more useful or faster on the street.
As it is, I have a lot of bikes, so the bike money has to be spread across all of them.  Zero dollars for a suspension improvement seems like money well spent, and if someone else can use the info then I feel like I've contributed some.  Yes I look at the FJ12 when I walk away from it.  I do the same to the Versys and the Blast.  Heck, I got the blast specifically because I'd be quite cross if someone dropped the FJ, so it was easier for me to get a throwaway bike instead.  But I still love it for what it is, not what I could make it.
1987 FJ1200
2008 Versys
2002 VFR800
2002 Buell Blast
1986 Honda CM400C
~Dnepr MT-16
1975 Honda GL1000
The best you've ridden is the best you know.
I'm like Netflix, but with bikes.

Bill_Rockoff

I think we probably agree more than we disagree. I too love the bikes for what they are.  (In my scenario, the role of "Buell Blast" would be filled by "another 250 Ninja." I just like those things.) 

My mind may be changed by a ride on an FZ1. But for the time being, I feel like I would prefer the FJ with its current upgraded suspension and brakes, and with an eventual engine rebuild. I liked it stock, I like it even more this way, and I'd like it even more with a powerplant that is smoother and more powerful.  For years, all my FJ friends would bring FZ1s  and FJRs to rallies and say "this is what the FJ would be if they still built it today - sport-toury, smoother, water-cooled and fuel-injected, with good suspension and better tires."  It's not rational, I just like it.

Similarly, I'm keeping the 998 for the time being. (Although it could use the forks set up, and the rear shock either set up or replaced, by someone who knows what they're doing.) It's theoretically great in some ways (although I embarrassed it at Barber Motorsports Park last month) but I don't like it because it's particularly great. Shoot, with me on the 998 and Andrew on the FJ, I can't keep up with Andrew on the FJ. (The only way I could even tell "he is too far ahead of me for me to see" rather than "he has run off the mountainside" is because I could still smell the smoke from all the oil the FJ's engine burns.)  I just like it because it makes me feel particularly great.

Eventually, I could see restoring the FJ cosmetically like I did with my '91 Miata back in 2002. (That was "my $14,000 oil change." I started off changing the oil on my Miata with 212,000 miles on it, wound up pulling the engine, wound up taking it so far apart that three of us lifted it, before putting it back together better than new. I could have kept a ratty '91 Miata and gotten a $14,000 used Boxster to supplement it, but instead I spent the money making the Miata I always wanted. There's a pattern here.)  Maybe after the rebuild. For the time being, the 998 is because "I could spend $5,500 on an FJ motor, or I could spend $5,500 on Ducati Dave's 998 and have two bikes." But we'll see how the career thing works out in the next few years, because I sure would like both.

And if I keep the 998, I sure won't shy away from a Ducati part that costs $x just because it's a larger percentage of a 998's value than a Panigale's value.
Reg Pridmore yelled at me once


fudge12

Totally in agreement.  I spent a good chunk of the value of my Yukon recently to rebuild the transfer case, because the yukon is worth more to me than the trade-in value plus the cost of the tcase rebuild.  They don't make the 8.1L anymore.  I bring up the FZ1 only because I had one, so I have the direct comparison. A buddy of mine had the bandit 12, which is probably a closer comparison to the FJ12.  I didn't like it.  I think a big difference for me is that I consider every bike temporary.  If something captures my heart (GL1K and MT-16) they stay.  Everything else is an experience to enjoy, then remember fondly or otherwise (I hated my Bandit 600) as I experience something else.  The FJ is everything I thought it would be, 30 years ago.  The FZ1 was amazing, and probably the second best bike I've owned (V-strom 650 was the best for me) and is by necessity the basis of comparison for it's predecessor.  It just had more horsepower than I could comfortably use on the street.  So it went away, and was replaced by the Vstrom 650.  Life is too short for me to keep riding the same bike.
1987 FJ1200
2008 Versys
2002 VFR800
2002 Buell Blast
1986 Honda CM400C
~Dnepr MT-16
1975 Honda GL1000
The best you've ridden is the best you know.
I'm like Netflix, but with bikes.

giantkiller

My problem is letting them go. That's why I have 10 now.   :dash2:
86 fj1350r
86 fj1380t turbo drag toy (soon)
87 fj1200 865 miles crashed for parts
89 fj1200 touring 2up
87 fzr1000 crashed
87 fzr750r Human Race teams world endurance champion
93 fzr600 Vance n hines ltd for sale
Custom chopper I built
Mini chopper I built for my daughter just like the big 1

fudge12

That's not a problem for me. I figure I can only justify having insurance and registration on three at a time, so that's my limit for running bikes. If something else catches my fancy, one of the three have to go. Also it's only because of the FJ that the number is three. It's normally two, but I wanted the FJ enough to modify the rule.
1987 FJ1200
2008 Versys
2002 VFR800
2002 Buell Blast
1986 Honda CM400C
~Dnepr MT-16
1975 Honda GL1000
The best you've ridden is the best you know.
I'm like Netflix, but with bikes.

fudge12

So I went ahead and installed the new fork seals today. Fairly simple, yank the forks, disassemble, reassemble, reinstall. Did a bit of cleanup on the fork tubes with 800g sandpaper to fit rid of the roughness that caused the seal failure in the first place.  Also cut about 3/4" off my spring extension tubes for less preload, and when I refilled I set the height at 6.25" instead of 6" so it should be a bit softer. Challenges were that my brand new bottle of 10w fork oil was only 3/4 full (it did have two cap seals though) so I filled the rest with some 10-30 to thicken it up slightly. While I had the front end apart I got rid of the anti-dive brake hoses and bled the brakes.  Challenge there is that the brakes seem to drag an awful lot, leading me to believe a rebuild kit is in order. So what costs more, a rebuild kit or a set of the much-ballyhooed 'blue-dot' calipers?  Also when rolling my wheel and looking at it I seem to perhaps have a bit of a flat spot on the rim. Anyone did the 17" upgrade and want to sell their old one?  Usual for old bikes, nickel and dime.
1987 FJ1200
2008 Versys
2002 VFR800
2002 Buell Blast
1986 Honda CM400C
~Dnepr MT-16
1975 Honda GL1000
The best you've ridden is the best you know.
I'm like Netflix, but with bikes.

fudge12

Answered my own question. eBay blue dots were $50, rebuild kit was $24. Plus apparently the calipers only work on newer fork legs, so rebuild kit ordered.
1987 FJ1200
2008 Versys
2002 VFR800
2002 Buell Blast
1986 Honda CM400C
~Dnepr MT-16
1975 Honda GL1000
The best you've ridden is the best you know.
I'm like Netflix, but with bikes.

Shane4371

Today I installed a aftermarket dog bone and a two brothers slipon on a 2016 CBR 1000 200 miles on the bike.I test drove it after the install and I'll take my 86 fj over it any day.I've riding a lot of the new cruisers super sports.I'm not impressed with new technology

4everFJ

Quote from: Shane4371 on October 13, 2016, 12:04:24 AM
Today I installed a aftermarket dog bone and a two brothers slipon on a 2016 CBR 1000 200 miles on the bike.I test drove it after the install and I'll take my 86 fj over it any day.I've riding a lot of the new cruisers super sports.I'm not impressed with new technology

Yeah, love makes you blind...  :lol:

Although we try not to consider hard facts when it comes to our beloved FJ's, it is a fact that a modern sports/tourer bike rides/handles/brakes MUCH better than our dinosaurs  :biggrin:
1985 - Yamaha FJ1100 36Y
1978 - Yamaha SR500
1983 - Kawasaki GPZ550 (sold)
1977 - Kawasaki Z400 (sold)

Shane4371

I don't know what the complaining is about the fj suspension. I adj ust mine for a passenger.and for myself.and im very pleased with handling.I run radial tires andc0/30 weight oil in my forks other then that its great.I take 25 mph curves AT 55 and don't blink.

ribbert

Quote from: Shane4371 on October 13, 2016, 06:44:52 AM
I don't know what the complaining is about the fj suspension. I adj ust mine for a passenger.and for myself.and im very pleased with handling.I run radial tires andc0/30 weight oil in my forks other then that its great.I take 25 mph curves AT 55 and don't blink.

Yeah, it's easy to get carried away with mods being the norm here, folks tend to forget a bog standard FJ is still a very capable and rideable machine. The hardest and fastest miles I ever put on my bike were when it was completely standard,, including track days.

IMO
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

giantkiller

I rode my brothers fjr and it's butter smooth. But actually I didn't like it. I felt disconnected, from the road, from the speed. That it got to extremely fast. No wonder they call them a Super Sonic couch. Didn't like e at all.
86 fj1350r
86 fj1380t turbo drag toy (soon)
87 fj1200 865 miles crashed for parts
89 fj1200 touring 2up
87 fzr1000 crashed
87 fzr750r Human Race teams world endurance champion
93 fzr600 Vance n hines ltd for sale
Custom chopper I built
Mini chopper I built for my daughter just like the big 1

giantkiller

Quote from: fudge12 on August 20, 2016, 05:29:30 PM
Trust me, I'm with you.  If the FJ was my only bike, I'd be pouring all of my bike budget into it.  However, having had newer bikes, I realize that no matter what you do to the suspension, the frame is still flexy.  No matter how much HP you make, it's not as smooth as a newer bike.  55lbs lighter than stock is still 30lbs heavier than a stock FZ1, and 50 lbs heavier than an FZ1 with an aftermarket exhaust, plus the FZ1 had 40K mile valve checks.  FJ12 has a wheelbase 15mm longer than a hyabusa, and 45mm longer than a first gen FZ1.  Progress is awesome.  My Versys has cartridge forks from the factory, and an R1 rear shock.  I know how good suspension feels.  My FZ1 was piped and jetted to 140rwhp, no mods to the engine.  I know how good it can get.  I don't, however, judge bikes purely by specs. I just don't see the value for me in spending that much money to make a bike that is still limited by it's 30year old frame.   I don't hold it against anyone who spends the money to improve their bike, if I was to put a dollar figure on my GL1000 that still doesn't run I'd cry.  Don't care, it makes me happy.  My MT-16 will probably never run well if at all, but it still makes me giggle every time I sit on it. But having had as many bikes as I have recently, I'd rather enjoy the FJ for what it is and trade it for something else in a year or two.  If I wanted absolute performance I'd have picked up an R1 or a Ducati at some point.  Not my thing.  I've found that 100hp is about what I can reasonably use on the street, so that's my upper limit now.  At the dyno pull I took the FJ to, the bike immediately prior to me made 220+HP.  More than double what the FJ did.  Didn't mean he enjoyed his bike more than I enjoy mine, or that his was any more useful or faster on the street.
As it is, I have a lot of bikes, so the bike money has to be spread across all of them.  Zero dollars for a suspension improvement seems like money well spent, and if someone else can use the info then I feel like I've contributed some.  Yes I look at the FJ12 when I walk away from it.  I do the same to the Versys and the Blast.  Heck, I got the blast specifically because I'd be quite cross if someone dropped the FJ, so it was easier for me to get a throwaway bike instead.  But I still love it for what it is, not what I could make it.


I was wondering about your saying the Fj weighing more than  fz1. I just looked it up stock 86 Fj 571(mine is 55lbs lighter 516), fz1 509 .,Hayabusa 586. All wet of course. Horsepower I'm way down 163vrs busa 194? Torque same 114/114.

I know that the new stuff is way better. Than my 30 year old bike is. And better than I can make mine. As well they should be. But as crazy as I've been. Throwing money at it. I'm at about $7800. A new busa $14,999?. Insurance less than $200. Licence $19 once and forever. Ability to work on it myself. Priceless.

I guess I like the Fj because I can change it. Mess with it. And afford to mess around changing it. If I had done as much to a busa(as an example) to improve it as much as I have the Fj. I would probably be around $25-30,000.
And yes thank you for showing us You can make improvements without spending money. I love learning from others projects.
86 fj1350r
86 fj1380t turbo drag toy (soon)
87 fj1200 865 miles crashed for parts
89 fj1200 touring 2up
87 fzr1000 crashed
87 fzr750r Human Race teams world endurance champion
93 fzr600 Vance n hines ltd for sale
Custom chopper I built
Mini chopper I built for my daughter just like the big 1

fudge12

Keep in mind, the same things you did to the FJ would make the FZ weigh correspondingly less.  I only bring that bike up because I had one, and it's still by far one of my favorite bikes.  New?  I bought a new bike in '89, and not since.  Heck, I only gave $1 per cc for the fudge!  That said, i was out on the Versys the other day and noticed that I have 50K miles on it, compared to 11K on the FJ and 7K on the blast, and those bikes came with most of the miles.  Clear favorite.  In a quandary now though, I'm about to go on a 4 day trip with my youngest son, Back of the Dragon in southern virginia.  Do I take the versys and him take the blast, or do I take the FJ and put him on the versys?

Sorry, new puppy had to go out.  Anyway, I love the FJ, but it's now at 11K miles and I'm pretty sure it hasn't had it's valves adjusted yet so that's a factor.  My front tire is 5 years old, which is a factor.  The boy hasn't ridden anything other than the blast in a long time, and before that put a couple hundred miles on a VFR700.  Decisions, decisions...

I do have to say though that for the past month or so, every time a bike was pulled out of the barn for a ride, it's been the FJ.  I've polished it up to near new (exaggeration, but not much) and added a bunch of reflective stickers all over it (color matched to black and red, so from 2' away from the bike they're invisible but it looks like a tron bike in headlights.) Definitely haven't rubbed the versys with polish in a year or two.
1987 FJ1200
2008 Versys
2002 VFR800
2002 Buell Blast
1986 Honda CM400C
~Dnepr MT-16
1975 Honda GL1000
The best you've ridden is the best you know.
I'm like Netflix, but with bikes.