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What a trip

Started by PaulG, February 07, 2018, 10:56:44 AM

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Pat Conlon

Dean, wow, you do cover some miles. I completely understand why an EV is not right for you.
If I only had 1 car to rely on, an EV would not be it (not yet) perhaps a hybrid?
Some kind of 50mpg gutless wonder....naaaa
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Millietant

Yeah, 40k-50k Miles per year is not unusual, when I was working full time it was generally around 50k miles per year.

In business, the majority of people I've worked with have been 30k miles-plus per year drivers and when you think that's in a country with a population density of around 10 times that of the USA, you can understand that sometimes it's slow going (especially on major routes with our trucks being physically restricted to 56 mph max speeds). So adding in long "refuelling/recharging" times as a double disaster.

My employer won an infrastructure services contract a few years back and committed, at the clients request, to try using battery electric vans for our mobile inspectors. This was in a limited area, but because of the daily mileage, 24hr use and long charging times, we needed twice as many vans as would need with diesel engined vans, and our inspectors had to make extra trips back to the depots to swap vehicles. Those vans were an operational and financial disaster - it's all very well electricity being cheap, but when your vehicles are having to spend 6-8 hours of the day stationary (when they're supposed to be in use pretty much around the clock), and more time in unproductive return journeys, the cost of the extra vehicles and waste of inspectors time (meaning we needed more staff as well as more vans !) made the decision to go back to diesel an absolute no-brainier for the client.

On your point regarding a gutless wonder doing 50mpg though - you need to come over here and try my Volvo V70 diesel station wagon - 240bhp and 500Nm of torque mean it's not that gutless and over its 174,000 miles so far, it's averaged 44.8mpg (that's UK gallons though).

From a performance and economy perspective, the US fascination with big capacity, gasoline and silly automatic gearboxes (that seem to downshift ever time there's a 1% gradient in the road) seems to be robbing drivers of fuel economy and relaxing torquey engines  :sarcastic:

But, then again a good electric car with a decent range (450-500 miles minimum) and fast charging (10 mins from 10% - to 100%) would be my ultimate family car - fabulous torque, quiet and smooth.
Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - complete runner 2024 resto project
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.

Pat Conlon

Quote from: Millietant on November 19, 2019, 04:59:21 PM
.....But, then again a good electric car with a decent range (450-500 miles minimum) and fast charging (10 mins from 10% - to 100%) would be my ultimate family car - fabulous torque, quiet and smooth.

Battery energy density is getting better and costs are going down, so the EV range will soon be there


Your requested charging rate: 10-100% in 10 minutes? Yikes!
That's a hard one, especially with the new solid state batteries.
Pumping that much energy into a battery in that short of time...without an active cooling system....
Boggles my mind.......
How about 10-80% in 30 minutes?  That last 20% to get to 100% full charge takes the longest time and generates the most heat.

Currently the best you're going to do is a special DC 400kW charge rate which at 800 volts DC pumps in 500 amps into your battery pack. Stressful as hell.
This gives you a range of 23 miles (37km) per minute of charging, so a 10 minute charge will give you only 230 miles. Is that enough to get you home?

Things will get better....
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Millietant

30 minutes to recharge is no good, unless you can do it at a very "convenient" location (i.e. at one of your destinations, where you PLAN on being stationary for 30 mins anyway) - otherwise it just eats up your day, standing around waiting.

Sitting on a gas pump for 30 minutes would cause untold misery in fuel stations (unless there were a lot more pumps than there are right now). But,  I can't see that, at electric charging points unless they go mad with digging holes and laying cables so that there at least 3 times as many charging points as there currently are gas pumps, at each filling station, journey times won't be again heavily impacted.

The minute to minute practicalities of moving everyone over the battery electric vehicles are the things no one who's promoting them wants to talk about - all of that new infrastructure costs big $ and someone's going to have to pay for it - and you can bet it won't be the electric car makers  :biggrin:

All I'm wanting is for that industry to sort out a viable solution for the masses, and make it affordable, before they convince governments to just outright ban ICE powered vehicles.

It seems like almost 10 years ago, the first Nissan Leaf's were the "future" with the promise of dramatic improvements in the near future to range, and yet over 10 years of dramatic improvements, they've managed to get the range up from about 80 miles to less than 150 miles - that's not dramatic progress in my book, that's very slow progress. Let's hope the pace of change picks up soon  :biggrin:
Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - complete runner 2024 resto project
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.

Pat Conlon

Agreed, the devil's in the details.

500 amps at 800 volts DC freaks me the hell out...can you imagine what the electrical utility is thinking?

Hmmm, ok we have a commercial customer who wants to put in 12 EV charge stations with each station needing 500 amps of service capacity.....that's just one customer, there are 6 more standing in line behind him. How do you plan and design your grid for that?

Holy crap.
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Millietant

Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 19, 2019, 06:37:34 PM
Agreed, the devil's in the details.

500 amps at 800 volts DC freaks me the hell out...can you imagine what the electrical utility is thinking?

Hmmm, ok we have a commercial customer who wants to put in 12 EV charge stations with each station needing 500 amps of service capacity.....that's just one customer, there are 6 more standing in line behind him. How do you plan and design your grid for that?

Holy crap.

Yep, you've got it Pat - and we have Political Parties now putting in their 2019 Election Manifesto's that they're going to effectively ban ICE powered vehicles from our roads by 2030 !!!!!!

How the hell they think we're going to survive, let alone be competitive in the global markets with that type of policy aim is utterly beyond me - they're living in cloud cuckoo land on the promises of the EV manufacturers that "everything will be fine"  :sarcastic: :sarcastic:

But then again, maybe I'm just being a simpleton and luddite
Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - complete runner 2024 resto project
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.

Pat Conlon

You sure about that Dean?
I've heard that they plan on stopping the sale of new ICE vehicles in 2030.
Different than an outright ban.
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Sparky84

Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 19, 2019, 06:37:34 PMHow do you plan and design your grid for that?

Holy crap.
Do it Now preferably.

Same with blocks of housing units, no one has thought these things through.
The supply into even recent ones won't have capacity, let alone the grid.
Who pays for you to charge it at work, extra costs for the business?
1984 FJ1100
1979 Kawasaki Z1300
1972 Honda CB750/4 K2

Pat Conlon

Quote from: Sparky84 on November 19, 2019, 09:29:36 PM
...Who pays for you to charge it at work, extra costs for the business?
Some businesses are proud to offer free EV Charging to their employees, but that is the exception, not the rule. It's good PR for them and perhaps a recruiting tool.
The most commonly used commercial public EV chargers are level 2 chargers are 240volt single phase and they take credit cards.
While electricity costs vary, the average cost of electricity in California is about 15¢ per kilowatt hour (kWh). At this price point, charging a Nissan Leaf's 40kWh battery with a 150–mile range would cost about 4¢ per mile (or about $6 to fully charge). With this 30amp 240volt charger (7kW) will take 6 hours to fully charge. Plenty of time to plug in on arrival and be fully charged at the end of your work shift.
If you charge your Leaf at home at night durning the off peak rates, your cost will be only $3 for that 150 mile range. Meaning, if you have to use a public charger it's gonna cost you double from what you can charge it up at home.
Still $6 per 150 miles is less than 1/2 the cost of a 40mpg ICE when fuel is $4 per gallon. ($15 for 150 miles)
Off peak home charging @ $3 per 150 miles is even a better deal.
....Only if the boss lady remembers to plug in the bloody cord.

The level 3 chargers are 480 volt 3 phase and the only company to use those chargers (that I know) is Tesla on their Supercharger stations. I do not know the price for charging at a Tesla station.
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Sparky84

Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 19, 2019, 10:02:44 PM
The most commonly used commercial public EV chargers are level 2 chargers are 240volt single phase and they take credit cards.
While electricity costs vary, the average cost of electricity in California is about 15¢ per kilowatt hour (kWh). At this price point, charging a Nissan Leaf's 40kWh battery with a 150–mile range would cost about 4¢ per mile (or about $6 to fully charge). With this 30amp 240volt charger (7kW) will take 6 hours to fully charge. Plenty of time to plug in on arrival and be fully charged at the end of your work shift.
Must be good to live in the Lucky country, my cost for electricity is 31c (aud) per kWh, off peak is 13c.
So still probably cheaper than fuel but good bye to holidays on the road.

1984 FJ1100
1979 Kawasaki Z1300
1972 Honda CB750/4 K2

Pat Conlon

Electric rates vary here in Calif with the highest rates in the Investor Owned Utilities (IOU) and the lowest rates are in the traditional publicly owned utilities.
The electrical rates in California's IOU's are the highest in the nation.
That's ok, pain is a great motivation to invest in PV solar and/or batteries.

They want to shut my power off when the wind blows? Watch this...


1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Sparky84

Quote from: Pat Conlon on November 19, 2019, 11:37:48 PM
traditional public utilities.

What are those?  :lol:
Our Government sold those to the highest bidder (Chinese) and then expect them to adhere to govt rulings on what they should be doing and how much they should charge  :lol:
They are even shutting power stations down so they then have a supply demand situation and can charge more.
1984 FJ1100
1979 Kawasaki Z1300
1972 Honda CB750/4 K2

Pat Conlon

China makes their own rules. Screw them, turn the tables and buy their cheap ass imported Chinese PV panels and put them on your roof. I bet you could get them for around 50c AUD per watt.
Stop paying your hard earned money for your government's betrayal.
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Motofun

Me?  I love me some ICE!
Love it in my scotch.
Love it on the border!
And love it in my vehicles!   :lol:
'69 Honda Trail 90
'75 Honda CB400F
'85 Yamaha RZ350
'85 Yamaha FJ1100
'89 Yamaha FJ1200
'09 Yamaha 125 Zuma
'09 Kawasaki KZ110 (grand kids)
'13 Suzuki GSXR 750 (track)
'14 Yamaha FZ-09
'18 Suzuki GSXR 1000R (track)
'23 Yamaha Tenere 7
SOLD: CBX,RZ500,Ninja 650,CB400F,V45 Sabre,CB700SC,R1

Pat Conlon

1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3