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slipping clutch on 84 fj1100

Started by T Legg, July 30, 2018, 01:41:22 AM

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Pat Conlon

Yeppers, finding leakage on GFI problems are a bitch. Might as well run a new circuit and be done with it. :dash2:
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Sparky84

I work in the commercial/industrial area and before RCD's up to 40 lights could be on a circuit, then they upgrade to RCD's to be compliant then the problem starts. A small leakage on each fitting adds up to circuit tripping and then you have LED lights that on start up the harmonics trip the RCD.

Hours finding faults
:Facepalm:
1984 FJ1100
1979 Kawasaki Z1300
1972 Honda CB750/4 K2

ribbert

Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 30, 2018, 06:37:45 PM

......I hate intermittent electrical problems.

Cheers. Pat


Just be thankful it's not a canbus system.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

ribbert

Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 30, 2018, 03:43:57 PM

Also, if going to the coil spring conversion and using the green springs , I suggest the smaller piston (15mm) FJR clutch m/c.


Pat, doesn't using the smaller m/c to lighten the pull increase the engagement travel? (start sooner finish later)

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

ribbert

Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 30, 2018, 12:51:26 PM

Did you soak your new fiber plates before install? Dry fiber plates will slip.


Has anyone experienced first hand the effect of not soaking them?

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

ribbert

Quote from: T Legg on July 30, 2018, 01:41:22 AM

.....but i've never had a clutch slip like this.at about 7000 rpm it will slip and then reengage fully in a microsecond.if i really get on it it may slip two or three times between 7000 -9500 rpms


What you describe could be the chain jumping over the sprocket when it's making the most power. I have ridden bikes that have done that and it feels as you describe, just a thought and an easy one to check.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

Pat Conlon

Quote from: ribbert on July 31, 2018, 08:08:01 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on July 30, 2018, 03:43:57 PM

Also, if going to the coil spring conversion and using the green springs , I suggest the smaller piston (15mm) FJR clutch m/c.


Pat, doesn't using the smaller m/c to lighten the pull increase the engagement travel? (start sooner finish later)

Noel

Yep, smaller piston = lighter pull with longer travel. The clutch engagement point of the FJR m/c feels perfect to me.
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

T Legg

I got a chance to take out my 84 FJ today after adjusting the chain and bleeding the clutch at the slave cylinder(i didnt see any bubbles although it seems to me that if the clutch had air in the lines or a bad slave or master cylinder that it would apply less pressure to oppose the clutch spring and make the clutch more difficult to disengage rather than causing it to slip i ordering a rebuild kit anyway).The "event "that feels like a slipping clutch occurred in second third and fourth,most often in second and third if i accelerate all the way up to 9500 rpm in third about 110 or 115 on the speedometer then shift to fourth i can run it all the way up to 135 on the speedometer about 9500 rpm without it slipping and shift to fifth with no slipping .watched the tachometer and when it slips the tachometer needle rises very slightly but only two or three hundred rpm . if it was an intermittent electrical short would the tach needle drop during the moment of no power?my son says when it slips he often sees a small puff of smoke but it doesnt backfire like when you shut off the key to a running motor and the turn it back on. i hope maybe somebody recognizes these symptoms i'm going to take apart and fix my kill switch next if its part of the problem or not it should be fixed. by the way i notice that if i match my rpms in fifth gear using a chart that takes tire size gearing and rpm in to account my actual speed at a 135 speedometer is about 119 mph and i think that is correct do all fj speedometers have that much of an error?   
T Legg

oldktmdude

   This is sounding more and more like a gear engagement problem. From what you have told us, this typical of how 2nd gear behaves when there is an engagement problem, in your case it may have graduated to 3rd and forth gears as well. Clutch slip is way more evident in 4th and 5th gears. You are correct in what you are saying about air in the clutch system, there is no logical way for air to make the clutch slip. I posed this question to the forum recently, without any creditable evidence to the contrary.
   Regards, Pete.
1985 FJ1100 x2 (1 sold)
2009 TDM 900
1980 Kawasaki Z1R Mk11 (sold and still regretting it)
1979 Kawasaki Z650 (sold)
1985 Suzuki GSXR 400 x2 (next project)
2001 KTM 520 exc (sold)
2004 GasGas Ec300
1981 Honda CB 900 F (sold)
1989 Kawasaki GPX 600 Adventure

Pat Conlon

.....or....The puff of smoke is the flash off of unburied fuel from a microsecond of ignition interrupt.

Try the jumper. Ride it. See what happens. You already suspect that the circuit is dodgy.

Sorry I don't have access to my bike or shop manuals, so I can't tell you the color wire the 12v input wire.
If you download a free Owners Handbook for your '84 (see my signature line) there is a color coded wiring diagram in the back of the book.
Don't cut the oem wire. No need. Just carefully skin back the insulation and use an alligator clip on your jumper.

You are correct on air in the clutch hydraulics not being the cause of a clutch slip....

Cheers. Pat
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

T Legg

that doesn't sound like a good thing.I geuss i'll have to start studying up on transmission problems.if that is happening is it likely to end in a catastrophic failure or just get worse until i fix it? i just saw the next post before i finished my reply i will definitely check out the ignition problem before i start tearing apart the engine.i had that thought also with the puff of smoke but i expected the electrical interruption to cause the tach needle to drop without power maybe it happens to quickly to see thanks for your ideas everybody
T Legg

T Legg

after reading some of the slipping gear storys it all sounds very familiar.i am still going to fix the ignition switch first but it looks like its time to upgrade the transmission and fix whatever  else I find while i'm in there. thanks to all of you guys for pointing me in the right direction.
T Legg

oldktmdude

Quote from: T Legg on August 01, 2018, 02:46:48 AM
after reading some of the slipping gear storys it all sounds very familiar.i am still going to fix the ignition switch first but it looks like its time to upgrade the transmission and fix whatever  else I find while i'm in there. thanks to all of you guys for pointing me in the right direction.
I think that is a good plan of attack. Make sure your ignition is not causing your problem, easier than a trans overhaul. My doubting of an electrical fault stems from it not occurring in every gear. Hope it turns out to be something easy.
   Best of luck. Regards, Pete.
1985 FJ1100 x2 (1 sold)
2009 TDM 900
1980 Kawasaki Z1R Mk11 (sold and still regretting it)
1979 Kawasaki Z650 (sold)
1985 Suzuki GSXR 400 x2 (next project)
2001 KTM 520 exc (sold)
2004 GasGas Ec300
1981 Honda CB 900 F (sold)
1989 Kawasaki GPX 600 Adventure

ribbert

Quote from: T Legg on July 31, 2018, 09:36:57 PM

....the tachometer needle rises very slightly but only two or three hundred rpm . if it was an intermittent electrical short would the tach needle drop during the moment of no power?



i notice that if i match my rpms in fifth gear using a chart that takes tire size gearing and rpm in to account my actual speed at a 135 speedometer is about 119 mph and i think that is correct do all fj speedometers have that much of an error?   

If it is an electrical fault, the rise in the tacho is likely to be needle bounce from the brief cut in power, not a momentry actual rise in revs.

FJ speedos are not out that much. I don't think a chart factoring in all that info is going to be very accurate, stick a smart phone or GPS in your pocket next time, I think you'll find the indicated and actual are much closer.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

Hemi Bob

I have the same problem, my clutch was slipping bad. Hard to find neutral hard shifts
When riding two up a hill any thought of rolling into the throttle
Would cause slipping.   Felt like an automatic with a high stall converter. Any time I
Accelerated with any amount of throttle the engine would just rev waiting for the clutch to catch up and go.
When in gear with the clutch pulled in the bike would creep forward.
One morning after warming up the bike the clutch refused to work at all.
I ordered all new Yamaha fibers and steels and spring an 1989 master cylinder and from RPM
A new slave. So everything that when back in was brand new
Fallowed what everyone else has done removed the wire and the two cushion springs
Replaced with 7 wide and 1 narrow  fibers that had been soaking for a few days in new clean oil. 
Put everything back together all seemed fine, supper smooth shifts no problem finding neutral
Even when hot.
A few weeks later I started  having to rock the bike in first gear with the clutch engaged  to disengage the transmission . Then it would be fine for the rest of the day. But would happen again the next day.  Next it started slipping again under heavy load and not being quite as smooth to shift.
I'm planning on taking the clutch apart to see if everything looks ok.
I'm wondering if putting back the 2 dampening  springs and a narrow fiber would help the lock
up problem when the bike sits over night. I'm also thinking of putting the worn spring back in
along with the new one and see if it has more holding power but not as hard on my left hand.

Robert
1985 FJ1100  Original Owner
1986 FJ1200  X Drag Bike
1981 Suzuki GS 1100ex
1981 Suzuki GS 750ex