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Splitting the cases

Started by Old Rider, September 18, 2018, 06:53:31 AM

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Old Rider

While waiting for the new cylinder sleeves there is not so much happening so i started to clean up the gasket surfaces .
I used both gasket remover and carb cleaner and a plastic scraper but did not get it clean so i then used
1200 grit wetsand paper and a 100% flat piece and wrapped the paper on and lightly sanded off most of the gasket material and marks.

I have received a set of very little used pistons that looks good and measure bigger diameter than my old ones.
They also look smoother on the pistonskirt surface .I think there was some kind of coating that went away when i cleaned the old ones in MR muscle for too long.

with the new used pistons i got the piston to cylinder wall clearances in spec but just at the limit of 0.10mm .The old cylindersleeves is a little oval and have a little taper they are in spec but not sure if the engine had been a oilburner if i used the old sleeves with new pistonrings without boring them and installed bigger pistons.

Old Rider

So now the phase of inspection and repair is almost finished i will start to assemble the engine.
Today i have started to replace the starterclutch shaft inner bearing that is ebedded into the uppercrankcase.
The old was not in good shape and made bad noise and was not smooth when swirled .
I was unsure if i got the right bearing because when it arrived it had wrong partnumber on the box.
I had to heat up the area around the bearing to get it out.I  compared the old with the new bearing an they measured the same in all places.I hope that this bearing is same quality as the old.
I heated also before pressing the new bearing in .First i did not know if i had the bearing fully seated because there was a little edge sticking out and i forgot to take a close look at the old before i remowed it.
But when looking at the old bearing there is a dark ring on the outher side so i think the old must have been sticking out a little to

Old Rider

The sleeves arrived this evening  they look good,but i was a little surprised when i measured them i knew they shuld have a innerdiameter 76.20 mm but when measured they ranging from 76.05 to 76.25 some also had taper of 0.03mm not much but i tought that brand new sleeves had better precision on the bores ?.

Im a little dissapointed that the bore wasent bigger so i could just hone the bore to fit the pistons.I have to
leave the cylinders to a machine shop so they can bore them about 0.80mm. I have called 2 shops and it cost about
400 us dollars to bore the sleeves.

racerrad8

Quote from: Old Rider on February 18, 2019, 12:18:05 PM
...I have to leave the cylinders to a machine shop so they can bore them about 0.80mm. I have called 2 shops and it cost about 400 us dollars to bore the sleeves.

That isn't a bad price, $100.00 a hole: Press them in, bore them and then finish hone them.

Hopefully that included the decking the gasket surface. The flange on the sleeves is thicker than the recess in the cylinder block and will have to be machined.

Are you going to heat the cylinder and drop the sleeves back in?

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM

Old Rider

Quote from: racerrad8 on February 18, 2019, 12:54:05 PM
Quote from: Old Rider on February 18, 2019, 12:18:05 PM
...I have to leave the cylinders to a machine shop so they can bore them about 0.80mm. I have called 2 shops and it cost about 400 us dollars to bore the sleeves.

That isn't a bad price, $100.00 a hole: Press them in, bore them and then finish hone them.

Hopefully that included the decking the gasket surface. The flange on the sleeves is thicker than the recess in the cylinder block and will have to be machined.

Are you going to heat the cylinder and drop the sleeves back in?

Randy - RPM

I dont know what is normal price on boring so if you say its a okay price i guess it is. I first was thinking that i could hone that 0.80mm but guess that is impossible? I dont think the price include the decking. I got the sleeves very cheep  110 usd for 4 on ebay so that helps.

Are you going to heat the cylinder and drop the sleeves back in?
Yes but first i have to wait until the dragon is not home
Im planning on heating the cylinder and cooling the sleeves in the freezer then drop the sleeves in but have now heard that there is a risk of things cracking when doing that so i think i try to heat the cylinderblock and drop the sleeves in without freezing them.I got a 5 to 10 second worktime before the sleeves get locked and have to make rig so they dont creep out when locking up.

Old Rider

Today  the new sleeves got installed.First I put the sleeves in the freezer for about 1 hour not sure if its needed to freeze the sleeve but did it because wanted to  increase the chance that they dropped in easy when i took the hot cylinderblock out of owen, and you have to be fast because You only got 5-10 seconds to put all 4 sleeves in.If not working fast enough they will get locked in the block if it cools to much.
I put the cylinderblock in owen while owen was cold and set the temprature at 180 degree Celsius .Then after 45 minutes  moved the sleeves out of freezer and tok off  the plastic bags trying to work superfast it was quite fiddly to remowe the ziplock bags because i had my drivinggloves on  :biggrin:  then it was out with the hot cylinderblock placed it on the rigframe i made earlier so the sleeves can be dropped in . Then put the sleeves in which was easy as they just dropped right in with no pressure.
The sleeves has tendency to creap ut of the bore when cooling down so its needed to place it in a press or something hold them in place. I put the cylinderblock up side down and screwed it down into a old  benchplate with several screws.
After cooling i unscrewed the block an turned it over. The sleeves is sticking just a little bit out its called
protrusion .I did a quick measure with feelerblade and straight edge and it is about 0.10mm .Not sure if that has to be shaved down because this is a aircooled engine with dry sleeves mayby the gasket will absorb that? .I knew that it was going to be a little protrusion because i fitted the sleeves upsidedown into the bore earlier and also measured them.
Yesterday i did a optimistic test with one of the old sleeves too se how much material i could hone out with coarce stones. :biggrin:
that did not work out at all i could get out about 0.40mm but then the taper and out of round was waaaaayyyyyy offf  :shok:
Next now is a visit to the machinechop to get the sleeves bored about 0.80mm  and honed .

big r

I would take the pistons with you as well and get them to fit the pistons to the cylinders. That way you are guaranteed to have the proper clearances

ribbert

Quote from: big r on February 20, 2019, 11:26:03 AM
I would take the pistons with you as well and get them to fit the pistons to the cylinders. That way you are guaranteed to have the proper clearances


Definitely, the last FJ I had bored to brand new Wiseco pistons and one was smaller than the rest. A good machine shop wouldn't do it without the pistons anyway.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

ribbert

Quote from: Old Rider on February 20, 2019, 08:41:56 AM

Yesterday i did a optimistic test with one of the old sleeves too se how much material i could hone out with coarce stones. :biggrin:
that did not work out at all i could get out about 0.40mm but then the taper and out of round was waaaaayyyyyy offf  :shok:
Next now is a visit to the machinechop to get the sleeves bored about 0.80mm  and honed .

Get out of your mind the idea that honing stones are for anything other than honing. I don't even use them for removing the ridge at the top of cylinder, preferring the proper tool.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

Troyskie

I think you'd need to check the warp on the head as well. After heating and cooling without the sleeves the block is likely to warp a little. The machine shop can sort that along with the protrusion.
1984 FJ1100 Ms Effie brand new :)
1984 FJ1100 Pearlie, stock as.
1985 FJ1100 Mr Effie 647,000K and still running hard.
1985 FJ1200 'Yummy' takes a licking & keeps on ticking
After all is said and done, more is said than done :)
2013 Trumpy Tiger 800, let's do a lap of Oz

Old Rider

Quote from: big r on February 20, 2019, 11:26:03 AM
I would take the pistons with you as well and get them to fit the pistons to the cylinders. That way you are guaranteed to have the proper clearances

Big r  Today i drove off to the machineshop its a 90 minute drive thanks for reminding me about the pistons i could easyly have forgotten to take the pistons with me   :good:
When arrived at the machineshop they say that mayby they could not bore the sylinders and that they needed some days to figure out if it was possible to bore them. :unknown:
I took the sylinders with me and drove another 60 minutes to another shop the guy at that shop told me it was no problem boring and decking the cylinderblock. :drinks:

Old Rider

Quote from: ribbert on February 20, 2019, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: Old Rider on February 20, 2019, 08:41:56 AM

Yesterday i did a optimistic test with one of the old sleeves too se how much material i could hone out with coarce stones. :biggrin:
that did not work out at all i could get out about 0.40mm but then the taper and out of round was waaaaayyyyyy offf  :shok:
Next now is a visit to the machinechop to get the sleeves bored about 0.80mm  and honed .

Get out of your mind the idea that honing stones are for anything other than honing. I don't even use them for removing the ridge at the top of cylinder, preferring the proper tool.

Noel
Noel
That is exatly what the guy in machineshop told me today he told me that the tool i used was useless. :sarcastic:

Old Rider

Quote from: Troyskie on February 21, 2019, 12:07:42 AM
I think you'd need to check the warp on the head as well. After heating and cooling without the sleeves the block is likely to warp a little. The machine shop can sort that along with the protrusion.

Yes the guy in machineshop told me he always deck shaved the surface when new sleeves are mounted

Troyskie

1984 FJ1100 Ms Effie brand new :)
1984 FJ1100 Pearlie, stock as.
1985 FJ1100 Mr Effie 647,000K and still running hard.
1985 FJ1200 'Yummy' takes a licking & keeps on ticking
After all is said and done, more is said than done :)
2013 Trumpy Tiger 800, let's do a lap of Oz

Old Rider

Uppdate
The machineshop called me and told me it was going to cost more than the first deal... :bomb: the first deal was 350 for boring and 163 for decking He sayd that the new price is 600 to 680 USD it was because he had to bore and then hone the cylinders 2 operations.
I asked about just that when i delivered the cylinders and then he told me that he will bore and hone in one operation . Now he have to bore and hone in 2 operations . :dash1: :smile: