News:

This forum is run by RPM and donations from members.

It is the donations of the members that help offset the operating cost of the forum. The secondary benefit of being a contributing member is the ability to save big during RPM Holiday sales. For more information please check out this link: Membership has its privileges 

Thank you for your support of the all mighty FJ.

Main Menu

Splitting the cases

Started by Old Rider, September 18, 2018, 06:53:31 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Old Rider

second oil change 2000 kilometers
Update the engine has now passed 2000km it runs great and have good power (much better than before) and use about 0.6 deciliter 98octane on 10 kilometers driving.
on this oil change it was a little less metalshavings on the drainplug magnet but mayby more than i should be??.
I decided to change the oil from semisynthetic yamalube 10w-40  to full synthetic yamalube 15w-50 but that did not work well.When i took a ride afterwards the engine got really hot much hotter than before.I could feel the heat flowing out while riding and also the bike was surging and i felt like the engine was going to seize up.
when engine was stopped it made a hissing noise smelt burned paint and made many pinging noises when coling down.
the next day i bought new oil yamalube mineral 20w-50 .When i took a little 5 minutes ride just to make the engine a little hot to drain the oil the engine again got superhot !.I had to wait with draining the oil.
Now after i filled her with the 20w-50 oil the engine runs cool again and i can lay may hand on the clutchcover
for some seconds without gettin burned like when using the full synthetic oil .
at youtube yamalube says that older bikes can use this oil ??
i know many have full synthetic oil in the fj but on mine the fullsynt yamalube did not work.

Motofun

You may be over thinking the oil issue.  While friction is a contributor it's much less than richness or air temp or speed (ie cooling).  I've never worried about the oil I use, just make sure it's reasonably fresh and of appropriate viscosity and you should be good to go.  I don't know what to make of the particulates on your magnet.  Looks like a lot.
'69 Honda Trail 90
'75 Honda CB400F
'85 Yamaha RZ350
'85 Yamaha FJ1100
'89 Yamaha FJ1200
'09 Yamaha 125 Zuma
'09 Kawasaki KZ110 (grand kids)
'13 Suzuki GSXR 750 (track)
'14 Yamaha FZ-09
'18 Suzuki GSXR 1000R (track)
'23 Yamaha Tenere 7
SOLD: CBX,RZ500,Ninja 650,CB400F,V45 Sabre,CB700SC,R1

Sparky84

Quote from: Old Rider on June 21, 2019, 03:06:01 PM


Now after i filled her with the 20w-50 oil the engine runs cool again and i can lay may hand on the clutchcover
for some seconds without gettin burned like when using the full synthetic oil .

Man, I wouldn't have thought there would be that much difference between those oils.
There is a fair bit of metal on that drain plug, what's the go there?
1984 FJ1100
1979 Kawasaki Z1300
1972 Honda CB750/4 K2

Old Rider

I don't know why the engine got so hot with the yamalube 15w-50 full synthetic.I looked at the yamalube video on
youtube and since the lady there say that older yamaha motorcycles could use that oil i gave it a try.
The fully synthetic also have ester added it works like a magnet and stick to every metalpart and create a
protecting coating don't know if that is true but sounds great.
The man at the yamaha service shop says that he had rebuilt several motorcycle engines many older types and he
would not use that oil if it was his bike and says that 10w-40 mineral or semisynt
was the best for a FJ.I told him about the youtube commercial and i wanted to try the full synthetic.
The next day when i came back i told him he was right and that my engine got superheated :blush:
One thing i dont understand is that he says that fully synthetic oil is much thinner than mineral.I also taught that
so i did a test i used 2 clear plastic cups and drilled 3 micro small holes i the bottom of the cups.
then i pored same amount of the mineral 20w-50 and 15w-50 fully synthetic in the cups.
first test was room temperature on the oils and the synthetic drained out a little faster than the mineral.
then i heated the oil to 100 degree Celsius and did the same test.Now the oils flow much faster but surprisingly
the fully synthetic drained a little slower than the mineral. so that shows that the full synthetic is a little
thicker that the mineral when hot!! I filmed both test with my camera .I mayby upload the test to youtube.
I don't like the metal particles on the drainplug but it is less than first oilchange so hoping it is OK.
One thing i did wrong is that i waited waaay to long with the first oilchange at 800kilometers.
link to yamalube on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlNw4wPezG4

Old Rider

So here is another update of how its going with the bike hope its not to boring
Bike has now been driven 3400 kilometers and i have done the third oilchange. I was not hoping to see metaldust on
the drainplug this time , but it was some this time also .It is less than it was on second oilchange.I guess it normal when
almost everything is new inside engine and i have also replaced exhaustcamshaft since second oilchange.
In the oil filtercase i found some particles they was non magnetic and none metallick it looks like black rubber or
plasticflakes and also some grey flakes.Mayby its from the chainsliders or mayby its flaking from pistonrings ???
I I'm not so satisfied with the engine rebuild that i was hoping fore.Because the engine now has started to make a
ticking noise again i have adjusted the valves tighter to mayby make it more quiet but did not help much.

The engine has god compression does not smoke and is not burning oil and  using  normal amount of fuel.It has very god power too.
so i don't know what the ticking can bee .I'm thinking mayby its the oilpump that is not able to keep up the
oilpressure when engine gets real hot .The ticking only shows up when engine is hot and is more loud riding downhill
with throttle closed
the engine also make a noise like a machinegun mayby its a ignition knock ??
her are link to video of the oilchange https://youtu.be/wpoBrKBL898
also a video of the engine noise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjbtLkKWkF4

Old Rider

Yeah i forgot to mention... take a look on the video at the headerpipes that i carefully painted with 2 different hi temp paints first a barbeque paint 1200 degreee celsius and on top of that another black gloss hi temp paint. I also tested the paint with a heatgun blowing inside the headers for 15 minutes and i hold up to the heat, but once the header was mounted on the FJ the paint could not stand up to
the beast :biggrin:

Old Rider

Today i did change the oil for the forth time at 4000 kilometers .I had planned to wait longer since i did a oilchange at 3400 kilometers but then i found that it is gasoline in the oil because of a
stuck carburetorfloat.More about that in this tread :http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18788.0
The drainplug has a little less particles on the magnet and the oilfilterhousing also got less particles this time.

Old Rider

well her is a update  on my engine rebuild last year  The ticking sound did almost go away after i changed to a thicker oil 20w-50 mineral and adjusted  the valves on the tight side ,but when the weather  started to get very cold  in the autumn i noticed that when starting up in the mornings i could  smell burnt oil and it smoked for about 5-10 seconds after start up. I was thinking maybe a valve stemseal had blown or something, but after i investigated it later it was not the case.
I used a cheap borescope to look into exhaust ports and everything looked good there then when looking down the plughole i could see the intake valves looked a little wet.
when winter came i decided to swap out the old cylinder head for another one  i had overhauled and ported / polished   for more power.
When i took the  cylhead off to investigate i could See that all eight  intakevalves had a  oily wet layer on the backside .All of the exhaust valves was dry on backside.
It did not seem to have leaked down from valve-stemseals .And it would be strange if all the valve-stemseals on the inntake valves had started leaking at same the time and none of the exhaustvalve stemseals leaking .so the theory to why it started smoking at startup  Is that  i used too thick oil 20w-50 mineral in the wery cold weather combined with always have the oil level topped up to max marking was making the oil find its way thru the airbox and thru the carbs and then clogged up on the
backside of the intake valves then drip a drop down on pistons when bike was parked and some of the intake valves is in the open position.The funny thing is i did not need to do this job .all i needed was to switch back
to 10w-40 oil and it would be fine  ,but i did not know that before i investigated further
I replaced the head this winter with another who was given a total overhaul  with a full valvejob ported and polished . The bike now runs very good the ticking sound is gone and feels more powerful than ever.( i suspect the old head had a little crack in it making the ticking sound )
Earlier i found some grey and black particles in the oilfilter that i did not understand what was i taught it was rtw silicone or from the new camchain sliders, but after i replased the cylhead i could see
that the 2 cylinderstuds on the right side of engine where the oil flows  was shiny metal with no paint on them .I had painted them with a grey zinkbased heat resistant primer and then a coat of black heatresistant enginepaint.That is what the grey and black  particles in the oil filtercase was!  I don't think the  soft paintflakes has done any harm too the engine since it runs good and don't use any oil.
Conclusion:
Don't use too thick oil when cold weather 20w-50 mineral  don't overfill / have the oil level at max  
Don't paint the 2 cylstuds at right side of engine.

Old Rider

yesterday i synchronized the carbs with a tool called syncpro carbtuner. i think RPM sells them. I got mine almost for free because the fluid inside
had vaporized or gotten sucked into engine.
I replased the fluid with blue foodcoloring and a little water .It worked very well but it was a little difficult to fill exact same amount of
fluid in the cambers so that the vacum rods pull exact same vacum.Only half a drop make it uneven on the bars.
Be aware that if you not careful and make sure all 4 screws are screwed all the way anticlockwise before starting engine the fluid will be sucked out and into engine.
Also be careful when blipping the throttle when adjusting to go slow on the return or the fluid can suck into engine.
You also have to calibrate the tool to the main carburetor before starting to calibrate all 4 carbs but its very easy and fast
My carbs was surprisingly very uneven when i started to calibrate  i tough they was okay since i benchsynked them with a small drillbit when they was
overhauled  and the bike did run good. it was easy to adjust and getting them pulling the same vacum.
Bike runs much smoother now and sounds very quiet vs before the sync Also accelerate faster.So i recommend this tool.
Only thing im a little usure of now is if i have to tune the fuel mixture screws again ,but i will have a look at the sparkplugs after some riding to see if it runs rich or lean

FJ1200W

Quote from: Old Rider on May 23, 2020, 12:50:04 PM
yesterday i synchronized the carbs with a tool called syncpro carbtuner. i think RPM sells them. I got mine almost for free because the fluid inside
had vaporized or gotten sucked into engine.
I replased the fluid with blue foodcoloring and a little water .It worked very well but it was a little difficult to fill exact same amount of
fluid in the cambers so that the vacum rods pull exact same vacum.Only half a drop make it uneven on the bars.
Be aware that if you not careful and make sure all 4 screws are screwed all the way anticlockwise before starting engine the fluid will be sucked out and into engine.
Also be careful when blipping the throttle when adjusting to go slow on the return or the fluid can suck into engine.
You also have to calibrate the tool to the main carburetor before starting to calibrate all 4 carbs but its very easy and fast
My carbs was surprisingly very uneven when i started to calibrate  i tough they was okay since i benchsynked them with a small drillbit when they was
overhauled  and the bike did run good. it was easy to adjust and getting them pulling the same vacum.
Bike runs much smoother now and sounds very quiet vs before the sync Also accelerate faster.So i recommend this tool.
Only thing im a little usure of now is if i have to tune the fuel mixture screws again ,but i will have a look at the sparkplugs after some riding to see if it runs rich or lean

I've been using a tool from the UK that uses precision stainless steel pistons with clear cylinders. Morgan CarbTune or something like that.

No mess, no worries.

I'm guilty of causing a bit or more of mercury to go through an engine or three "back in the day". 

If you're not aware, always do the carb synch last. If you do a valve adjustment, re-synch.

It's pretty easy on these bikes, and as you found, it really helps overall smoothness and performance.

2 1/2 turns is all I've ever used on the air screws. So many variables. Seems work well in our conditions.

If you fiddle with them, re-synch. I might be spot on, might not be.

Have a great weekend!
Steve
Columbia, Missouri
USA

Old Rider



I've been using a tool from the UK that uses precision stainless steel pistons with clear cylinders. Morgan CarbTune or something like that.

No mess, no worries.

I'm guilty of causing a bit or more of mercury to go through an engine or three "back in the day".[/font]

 Yes i know about the quicksilver they are better quality and easier to use from what i have read. The one im using came in a quicksilver version before. I guess
they had to switch to non quicksilver because of the toxic silver.

If you're not aware, always do the carb synch last. If you do a valve adjustment, re-synch.
 It's pretty easy on these bikes, and as you found, it really helps overall smoothness and performance.
2 1/2 turns is all I've ever used on the air screws. So many variables. Seems work well in our conditions.
If you fiddle with them, re-synch. I might be spot on, might not be.


If you are right it is good news because i have done many small 1/8 of turns adjustments on my mixturescrews the last month to get it to run clean as possible with no soting carbonbuildup on top of the pistons and valves .And no backfiring of popping exhaust.The adjustmets is quite different on the 4 carbs i dont have the exact numbers here now but its like 3and a half on one carb  and mayby 1and a quart on a onother carb ets ets

Have a great weekend!
Thanks great weekendt to you to and your motorswap tread is very interesting to read i bet that engine will run as a hypersonic  beast :good2:
[/quote]

Old Rider

Time for a little update on how its going with the engine the engine has now rolled 11400km since i replaced the cylhead
This winter i overhauled the carburetors and replaced diaphragm which works great .Now I'm trying to fine tune the carbs by adjusting the mixture screws.
While the carbs was off i set the mixturescrews using the fingernail method made by Randy at RPM and Pat .This will give a true startpoint and all carbs are
set the same.I call it point zero from there you can adjust the screws in or out after reading the plugs.
I had a little popping in exhaust and a little surging at steady throttle so i bought a new set of plugs and ride them for a week to find out
who is rich and need to be adjusted in and who is lean needing adjustment out.The screws often need very little adjustments i use to think that
when a screw is turned 1 turn it is 60 minutes some times a screw needs only 3 minutes turning to get the plug right.
I'm not a expert on tuning ,but just replicating things i read heard and experienced with tuning sparkplugs.
Cylinder NR 1 had a tendency running lean so the mixturescrew on that one is now at over 5 turns out (over 2 out from point zero) the other
cylinders are only a few minutes in or out from poit zero see pic.
I think there is a airleak at the chokeplunger on carb 1 i have tested with spraying startfluid around the carb and inntake rubber, but cant find
any leak.Last year before i replaced the diaphragms cyl 1 was also over 5 turns out before i got the plug right so maybe the NR1 carb is
just worn more than the others.But i will try to replace the chokeplunger on that one easy to do because don't need to separate the carbs.
Here are a pick of what plugs look like after riding a week that was 14th july after adjusted them the popping has now gone and no surging
at steady throttle. I will take a look in a month to see how the plugs are then .The main thing to aim for is getting the bottomring on the
plug covered with a light layer of sot all way around and on the white porcelain the sot is supposed to go up to a little over midway from
inside the plug.When riding you can really feel how quick and powerful the engine gets when the mixture is right.Engine should respond
immediately when giving throttle no hesitation or burpy sound.

Pat Conlon

Re: Plug color:
Remember: if your bike has the vacuum advance module (closed throttle advance) you need to disconnect this advance to get an accurate color reading on your plugs.

With the vacuum advance connected your plugs will look white. This is a false reading. When the throttle plates close the vacuum increases and and the vacuum advance unit bumps the ignition timing to over 50*.
This is an emissions control feature and is done to flash off any unburned fuel in the cylinder chambers.
This is what turns your plugs white....(it also keeps them clean)
FYI Here is the timing curve with the vacuum advance (upper curve) vs the normal running timing curve (lower curve)


Your bike will run just fine with the vacuum timing advance disconnected. Be sure to plug the vacuum port at the intake manifold.

You can only get an accurate plug read with this vacuum advance function disconnected.

Cheers. Pat
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Old Rider

Thanks for informing about that Pat ,but my european bike does not have the vacuum advance.  Another problem reading the sparkplugs now is the unleeded ethanol mixed fuel they sell
nowadays . The plugs get almost no color or use a very long time to get colored

balky1

All FJs had it. It is a hose going to the CDI (may be already disconnected).


FJ 1100, 1985, sold
FJR 1300, 2009