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FJ engine mount frame to use a conventional engine stand, anyone seen one?

Started by Pat Conlon, September 25, 2020, 10:24:20 AM

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fj1289

Finished for now

Before remounting the case half I supported my full body weight on the ends of the mounts (dip bar style) with the mount "right side up"  so the supports were in tension vice compression (the weak way).  I was very happy with how sturdy it was.  

Also cut the single piece of all-thread - WAY too much time spinning nuts on and off to get the engine case mounted or unmounted.  Much easier and faster this way.  








fj1289

For anyone looking to duplicate this - I would use the same 1" square tube for the "arms" and "supports".  I just used the c-channel on those because I had it on hand already from another project. 

Hopefully in the next few days I'll get the 1314 cases out of the race bike frame again and give it a go on this engine stand adapter.   I prefer to pull the head and cylinder in the frame - along with the clutch, starter, and generator.  Makes getting it in and out of the frame a breeze and lighter to pick up too.   But, I'm thinking I'll go ahead and build up the full engine on the stand since timing the cams is a lot easier for me - better access for the dial gauge since I haven't found a good way to mount that in the frame yet ( always ends up at a bad angle and the pointer wants to bind up or slip off the bucket). 

May remove the entire adapter and the yoke? spindle? From the engine stand and bolt it to the engine.  Then just pick up the whole thing and slide it into place in the engine stand.  Probably sounds easier than it will be in reality.

Pat Conlon

That's the beauty of using the upper engine mounts....it's easy to get the frame on when the engine is sitting on the ground. I like your idea of bolting the frame on, then with your engine hoist lifting everything up to slide the spindle into the yoke on the engine stand.
It might be awkward to get the spindle exactly horizontal to slide into the yoke, so if the frame and spindle are at a slight angle you can lift the stand to match the angle. (famous last words)

Thanks again Chris, good job
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Old Rider

Nice work ! i I guess this can be used on other vintage bike engines i have some garage door rails that looks like the C-channels you have used maybe i try to make a copy of yours if you haven't patented it yet

racerrad8

Quote from: Brook on September 26, 2020, 01:27:51 PM
..... Randy, back in the day, when building a motor for the street (racing) or the roundy rounds. The mechanics in my area/group would not build a racing motor, on a motor stand. Because, of the off-set weight. They would say, that the torque  measurements would not be the same, at both ends of the motor (the motor would stretch, on a motor stand)
Do you agree??
Would that apply, to motorcycle motors, also??   

Brook, I have never heard such a theory. I struggle with that as the loads on the engine when running are much greater than the weight of the engine hanging on a engine stand. I do recall touring the Hendrick engine shop back in the late 90's and they were using engine stands. Maybe things have changed, thought provoking.

Chris, While the concern of the crankshaft weight should be up there, you also need to seriously consider the additions weight of the rods, pistons, cylinder block, cylinder head and camshafts also hanging out there. Be careful, I would hate see that race engine damaged trying that apparatus you have assembled. Leaving it with a safety support of the engine hoist just in case.

Now, how are you going to work on everything in the clutch area? Bearing retainer, oil pump, shift shaft, clutch basket and clutch? That cross bar appears to be right in the way.

Sorry guys, I am still struggling with why...? :scratch_one-s_head:

With the upper case upside down, the head studs provide a nice angel to ret the crankshaft. Then , that same angle helps when dropping on the lower case half. In fact, it allows you to keep the trans in place better than trying to hang it upside down. Once the lower case bolts are torqued, you roll the engine over onto the flat surface. That then allows the assembly of the rest of the engine on a nice sturdy base.

Chris, be careful, very very careful.

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM

fj1289

Randy - warning well received.  This may not work out at all - will have to see about access to the bearing retainer, etc.  I figured the clutch stuff I'd do in the bike like I usually do.

For me, part of the reason why - I built my workbench with specific storage requirements in mind.  In reality, it's about 12-18" too tall for doing the engine work on.  Maybe that should be my next focus ...

racerrad8

Quote from: fj1289 on October 04, 2020, 09:40:48 AM
For me, part of the reason why - I built my workbench with specific storage requirements in mind.  In reality, it's about 12-18" too tall for doing the engine work on.  Maybe that should be my next focus ...

Maybe its time for one of these, I used this one to finish up a top end repairs on the engine in the car.

I have four of them and use them for engine builds. It has the stainless top with an oil drain hole. It has plenty of storage below for when I break and engine down everything stays in one place. It has the face tool hanger at one end as well. Plus it rolls for easy storage out of the way.

Let me know if that might be a better option for you.

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM

ribbert

Chris, while I like your design, albeit in need of the beefing up you mentioned, that is an entirely separate matter to the need for it and I agree with Randy....

Quote from: racerrad8 on October 04, 2020, 09:07:31 AM

Sorry guys, I am still struggling with why...? :scratch_one-s_head:

Randy - RPM

I have literally done hundreds of motor bike engines and I've always owned engine stands but never once have I wished I could mount a bike motor on one, particularly 4 cyl engines, their weight and shape keeps them stable on a flat surface.
Also, engine stands are generally not height adjustable and I reckon you'll find the working height a bit low.

What I do find essential are these, engine lift and leveller and a proper floor jack.








Randy's set up is great but maybe overkill for home use. I use a small dedicated work bench with a solid timber top, additional bracing, tray at the back and I put locking wheels on it, works a treat. Everything in my workshop that can't be lifted easily is on wheels, even motors on the floor sit on piano trolleys.



Trivia, the engine on the right made 10 - 17 HP off the showroom floor when new, depending on the year/model

Noel



"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"


RPM - Robert

Quote from: Brook on October 11, 2020, 09:41:39 PM
... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXlFfyM7J1s

  8:35

Those struts are because that is an engine run stand. It would be interesting to see an engine stand in a engine shop like Ferrari or Hendricks.

But looking at this video, Ferrari mounts their engines to a single side during assembly. Then it appears they go to a front mount.

That water jacket area would seem weaker than the bell housing flange to me especially on a single side mount.
https://youtu.be/eEzWtCvQgEM?t=44