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why is my gear change clunking

Started by jono, August 30, 2021, 02:09:54 AM

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Old Rider

Quote from: jono on September 07, 2021, 01:41:17 AM
well i did as you  suggested Old Rider and after a couple of hours i went back and took the cover off the reservoir  and the fluid was all murky with who knows what, so anyway i left the lever  taped half closed and tilted slightly so the reservoir was raised higher than normal for the night and this morning reassembled every thing and went for a 35km ride and it still clunked but I think not as badly so im going to get some fluid which Ive just about run out of and thoroughly flush out the whole system again ,I thought I had "but obviously not  good enough" then ill do the same trick again, i presume that taping the lever open and leaving it over night allows any air in the system to rise to the top, am i right in taking the reservoir cap off when I do this ???

jono
You don't need to take the cover off .But if you have you should check that the little return relief hole in the bottom of of the reservoir is not clogged you can use a
little drillbit or a guitar string or similar.When pressing the lever slowly and a little in there should rise small airbubbles from that hole when bleeding the clutch.See picture
If the fluid is murky now it may come from wear on the black rubber seals in the slave or master cylinder or air /moisture seaping into system.
The reason i said the bike should be tilted a little to the right is that i found that it is difficult to bleed out all air from the slave cylinder if  placed on side stand tilted to the left.
My theory is that air gets trapped in top of the slave when the slave is  tilted to the left or level.So to be sure the air gets out i tilt it to the right but that is just my theory.
Another thing to check is the clutchbasket and the plates for wear.
If it was my bike i would first try another brand brakefluid .

red

Jono,

Do NOT leave the reservoir cap open to air.  Some brake fluids absorb water from the air, which is why there is a covering diaphragm inside the reservoir over the fluid, not just a gasket around the rim.
Speedbleeders.com can make it an easier, one-guy job. 
You can get banjo bolts for the hydraulic lines that have bleed screws installed in them, making it much easer to get air out of the hoses.  Put one at the clutch master cylinder, and maybe one on the front brake master cylinder would be good, too.  RPM has them.  Never re-use the hydraulic washers when changing out the banjo bolts; use new hydraulic washers.
Cheers,
Red

P.S. Life is too short, and health is too valuable, to ride on cheap parade-duty tires.

mike g

i've put a bleed bolt in the banjo at the cylinder end to help this

jono

well once again thanks to all you guys for your input. Ive just flushed the whole system and" Ive used  Mobil dot 4 fluid because every thing is shut in Auckland because of lock down and i had to get it from the gas station and that's all I could get "  it is shifting way better so it obviously was the clutch line contaminated with crap and it had  air in it ,Ive left the lever taped open with the reservoir cap on this time  but i think Ive found the problem already  and also i am learning to ride this machine as well so that is probably part of the problem as well. Tomorrow I'm going to add a EBC clutch spring to the original one that's in the bike  not so much because of slipping because at this stage of dialing the bike in it doesn't slip at all but the clutch lever is very easy to pull in and I'm thinking if its a bit harder to pull it will teach me to shift more uniformly which could in turn also make for a smoother gear change

jono
1991 fj1200

krusty

When all is good put Arthur's Pass on the ride list.
91 FJ1200
84 FJ1100 x 2
85 FJ1100
89 GL1500
76 CB750F1
72 CB350F
63 C92 x 2
59 C76
62 C100
63 C100
60 Colleda 250TA x 3
63 Suzuki MD50
77 DT125E
77 DT175E x 2
79 DT250F

jono

did that a couple times on my FZ750 back in the day  :smile:
1991 fj1200

jono

well i've got it sorted the clunk is now a  loudish snick after flushing and bleeding the fluid which was a great improvement I went into the clutch to have a look and after reading the file section about clutch improvment I already had a new EBC spring lying around and I read randys' post were he suggested they could be good with a OEM spring so I did just that I also took out the wire ring and first spung plate and spacer and replaced it with a standard fibre plate from my spare motor that I measured  and  was in spec !!! what a difference it feels totally different .
I glad I read the file section. Now to work out the    
"Relay for more power to your coils." file

jono
1991 fj1200

red

Quote from: jono on September 11, 2021, 01:06:51 AMI glad I read the file section. Now to work out the "Relay for more power to your coils." file
jono
Jono,

Any relay is nothing but an Off-On switch.  A flasher relay for turn signals has a timing circuit, but it's still mainly a switch.  For any regular relay, you flip the switch not with a finger, but with an electromagnet positioned to do that job.  When you send power to the relay coil (electromagnet), that strong little magnet flips the switch.  Now relay coils draw very little power, but the switch they flip can switch On heavy loads, such as headlights, loud horns, or in this case, the ignition coils.  Instead of feeding the coils with skinny wires and a lightweight harness switch, the skinny wires only feed the low-power relay coil.  You run heavy wiring directly from the battery to the relay switch contacts.  The relay then switches that full battery power into the the ignition coils.  You get a stronger spark (maybe much stronger) because the coils are getting direct battery power.  When the ignition is Off, the relay switches Off the battery power to the coils, so everything acts completely normal.  You just get some improvement in mileage and performance.  Most riders report better performance, and smoother power.

One big advantage to using a relay is the cost.  Common automotive relays (which is what you want there) only cost a few bucks.  Replacements are another advantage.  You can replace a bad relay (switch) like changing a light bulb - pull out the old relay, plug in the new relay.  If any OEM switch goes bad in the bike, it will cost a lot.  Replacement will usually be a pain, and that's if you can even buy a new switch for an old bike.  The draw of a relay coil is so small, your OEM switches (powering relay-coils for maybe the horn or headlights) may outlast the bike.

For the new ignition-coil relay, the wiring that once fed power to the ignition coils will be used to power the relay-coil instead.
.
Cheers,
Red

P.S. Life is too short, and health is too valuable, to ride on cheap parade-duty tires.

jono

thanks Red I'm checking  out what i need  now, at the moment we are all on covid lock down so i take my bike for  a 35 km spin every day in the countryside and I swear every day it goes out of tune and the carbs are well tuned so it must be spark ,the other day it fouled no 3 plug so i put hotter plugs in and its running like shit again the spark is weak and from what you say and other posts the relay mod is a good place to start one problem i have with this bike is i don't know the true mileage it could be anywhere from close to 100000 km to 200000 km the sump was spotless when i took it off and had a look, and the clutch looks like its had a new spring and the plates were real good like maybe they have been replaced ,it doesn't smoke that i known of just a bit when its cold ,so hopefully its not oil that's fouling the plugs just my tuning which im getting better at ,this forum has got all the right info on the relay installation so it should pretty straight forward

jono
1991 fj1200

T Legg

You say it seems to go out of tune every time you take it out for a ride. Does it run well at first then crappy or does it just run poorly all the time ? Is it at all rpm's or in a certain range ?
   If it's all the time and you think the carbs are ok you should check and if necessary adjust your valves then do a compression test. And you could also make sure the intake boots are not old and cracked or have bad o-rings .
     If it's intermittently running poorly it could be electrical. Worn or dirty contacts on the kill switch or ignition switch can cause low voltage at the coils . You can measure the voltage of the primary side of the coils while it is running to see if it's low. The relay mod would eliminate these switches as a source of low voltage to the coils but if everything is right it should still run well without the relay mod. You can also check your spark plugs wires and boots especially if everything else seems ok and only one spark plug is black and fouled .
T Legg

jono

it seems to be the idle circuit that's all over the place its got new carb manifolds and o rings but old air box rubbers that are still good and supple i assembled the whole air box system with rubber grease and i'm wondering if its washed away and leaned out the idle circuit but twice now its started running on three so I'm going to pull the carbs today and check the o rings and seal the whole inlet system with permetex that way i will know its not leaking ,maybe its leaning out and when i compensate with the mixture idle screw i'm fouling the plug ???when its running properly it runs very well i will check the coils and plug leads again .Ive done the shims there all on the loose end of the spec so its not them its certainly a good way to spend lock down and i get to test ride it every day as well

jono
1991 fj1200