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Paint woes - looking for alternatives

Started by pict, September 01, 2021, 10:50:18 AM

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pict

Hi,

I'm moving on to addressing some paint issues on the Red/White 86 FJ1200.

Firstly I have to repaint or touch up the frame rails, rear brake lever, gear lever etc in silver. My preferred option is to use VHT Argent Silver Wheel paint. However this is not available in Canada (checked with Dupli-Color) so the only option is mail order. Including shipping to Canada ($89) this comes to $107.69 excluding the certain duty/brokerage charges from FedEx/UPS.

Secondly I have to repaint the bellypan, and also repaint 2 Givi panniers and a topbox to match the rest of the bike. My preferred option would be matched paint from ColorRite. I figure these quantities should do it:

2 x 11oz aerosols of Silky White
1 x 11oz aerosol of 1100-1 Base
1 x 11oz aerosol of Stormy Red
1 x 11oz aerosol of 1500 Base

Regarding clear coat, I was going to use Dupli-Color 1K Top Coat rather than the ColorRite offering.

FedEx shipping is $106.59 for this cart for a grand total of $306.34, again excluding duty and brokerage fees.

I can't really justify this expense and am looking for alternatives. Usually I would have stuff like this shipped to North Dakota and drive over the border and get it myself, but the land border remains closed to Canadians for another 3 weeks minimum and I'm hoping to get the paint on before the climate turns martian.

So looking for suggestions please to try and get the costs down. I am wondering the following:

(1) Dupli-Color Perfect Match colours seem readily available (though not sure if the full range is on offer). The closest I have come to finding matches is Cardinal Red (21,EP,SQ,E4,EA), though this looks like a flat colour and doesn't appear to have the sparkles in the original. Not sure about the White, perhaps Hyundai Powder White Pearl (N2) or White Pearl (070). No clue about the best silver option. Are there close match options I am missing in this paint range?

(2) I have plenty tins of grey/white/black primer and am wondering if I really need the ColorRite base paints to get reasonably close on the final colour? Anyone know what colours the Base 1500 (for the red) and 1100-1 (for the white) are roughly?

(3) I plan to delineate the boundary between the red and white with strips cut from bluish black signage vinyl before clear coating. Anybody know what vinyl is a good match for the original (e.g. the bluish black stripe on the tank).

Any suggestions most welcome.

Cheers,
John
1986 FJ1200 1TX

red

John,

Can't help with original colors, but you might consider the new vinyl wraps.  As long as both sides of the bike sport the same colors, it's a match (even if not the original colors).  Changing a side panel to black or metallic, or wrapping a belly pan to white, can look better than new paint.  Prime and sand surfaces as you would for paint, sure, but nothing more.  There are many YouTube videos on the best ways to vinyl-wrap, even for the more complex shapes.

As a side note, some of the newer paints can be really hazardous to your health.  Unfortunately, the warning labels look fairly standard in their wording, so you could end up with some serious health problems unless you take enough precautions.  For some paints, the needed protective gear is beyond mandatory; it is practically vital.  Word to the wise.
Cheers,
Red

P.S. Life is too short, and health is too valuable, to ride on cheap parade-duty tires.

RPM - Robert

Wrapped both cars for around $500, $250 per car. Non fluorescent colors are even cheaper. Vinyl is cheaper than paint, and fairly easy to do.

pict

Quote from: RPM - Robert on September 01, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Wrapped both cars for around $500, $250 per car. Non fluorescent colors are even cheaper. Vinyl is cheaper than paint, and fairly easy to do.

I looked into vinyl wrap but found matching the red was difficult and couldn't source a pearl finish. The quote I got for install on three luggage cases was $300 CAD and I had forgotten to mention the bellypan. I'd revisit the vinyl option if I could get a lead on specific vinyls that match and include a pearlescent finish close to the originals, and that I could acquire in reasonable quantities and install myself. All the colour swatches the local wrap business had were flat colours and they would have to special order a whole roll.
1986 FJ1200 1TX

pict

One option I didn't cover was to have the paint mixed here, but the local shop was having as much difficulty as I finding the mixing recipe for Stormy Red (00GE), Silky White (00GE), and Ford Argent Silver. Anybody have leads on the recipes for any of these? I could chance scanning the side panel paint, but I'd feel safer knowing the actual makeup if possible.
1986 FJ1200 1TX

Millietant

Quote from: pict on September 01, 2021, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: RPM - Robert on September 01, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Wrapped both cars for around $500, $250 per car. Non fluorescent colors are even cheaper. Vinyl is cheaper than paint, and fairly easy to do.

I looked into vinyl wrap but found matching the red was difficult and couldn't source a pearl finish. The quote I got for install on three luggage cases was $300 CAD and I had forgotten to mention the bellypan. I'd revisit the vinyl option if I could get a lead on specific vinyls that match and include a pearlescent finish close to the originals, and that I could acquire in reasonable quantities and install myself. All the colour swatches the local wrap business had were flat colours and they would have to special order a whole roll.

From 2012 to 2016 I ran one of the largest vehicle graphics businesses in the UK. We covered everything from kids strider bikes to the biggest trucks on our roads. Police bikes and BloodBikes were our stock in trade, but doing graphics to match OE bike paint schemes was no-no. You can't do it with coloured film "off the roll", you need to be a lot more inventive. We tried by digitally printing colours and patterns onto film and then using that on the bike (with UV resistant overlay film), but it never worked to our satisfaction. The colours were never "right".... Close, but not close enough.

It's relatively easy when you aren't matching original colours perfectly, either using cut vinyl, or digitally printed graphics, especially when you have a blank canvas, but for perfect OE quality graphics to replace painted-on originals, the time and effort needed mean it just isn't commercially viable.

Discrete items (belly pans, logos and stickers) are technically easy, but fiddly and too small volume for a major graphic business to keep stocks of, but there are quite a few individuals who provide a great service in such items to specific owners forums. I believe Jeff Shaw does some for FJ's and I've used guys over on FZ1 and Aprilia owners forums for specific graphics for those bikes.

Hope you find a solution though  :good2:
Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - complete runner 2024 resto project
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.

pict

Quote from: Millietant on September 01, 2021, 02:00:43 PM
Hope you find a solution though  :good2:

Thanks. Made some progress researching Ford Argent Silver which is often quoted as a good match for the frame paint. Seems there were various versions from the 50s to 70s, but it was often quoted in the car/truck forums that Ford code 1G is a close match (variously known as Silver, Argent, Silver Poly) and I did find a modern PPG code for that (PPG 2593). So got a tin made up this afternoon in a single shot acrylic formulation and sprayed the rear brake lever. Comparing the finished result with the original paint on the main frame bars it is close. I would say slightly shinier, slightly cooler in tone, but quite close indeed. The metal content is very fine so it looks somewhat in between a flat and a metallic like the original paint. Anyway quite happy with the match. Paint label attached in case anyone is stuck finding an alternative to VHT Argent Silver SP188 Wheel Paint.
1986 FJ1200 1TX

Millietant

I re-painted my whole frame in Hammerite Smooth Silver paint and the gave it 3 coats of Clear PU Heavy Dirty Lacquer.

No-one has ever spotted that its not original, but i think the finish is a better quality. I'd guess the issue for you is that you can't buy the paint over the counter there.
Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - complete runner 2024 resto project
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.

pict

Quote from: Millietant on September 01, 2021, 06:01:27 PM
I re-painted my whole frame in Hammerite Smooth Silver paint and the gave it 3 coats of Clear PU Heavy Dirty Lacquer.

No-one has ever spotted that its not original, but i think the finish is a better quality. I'd guess the issue for you is that you can't buy the paint over the counter there.

In the past the frame had been touched up using a silver paint with no lacquer and it was altogether too light and shiny and looked a bit crap. I'm much closer now, but more importantly the finish looks the part. I'm quite a fan of the Hammerite range having sprayed the chassis on a mid-seventies Westinghouse golf cart and it gave great looking fast drying results, so I imagine your frame turned out real nice.

Looking at the red on the bike, there is a noticeable difference if you look closely, between the red on the plastics, and the red on the tank. The tank is a bit darker but looking at the bike as a whole it doesn't jump out at you. I'm hoping a paint mix based on a scan will get me close enough as I know it doesn't have to be a super exact match to blend in.
1986 FJ1200 1TX

Hemi Bob

Hi John
I have heard some good things about https://rondex.ca/
the will match any paint colour part you send them.
Or bring to them.
Then put it in a rattle can or sell you any  amount you want.
Have no idea of cost. I was going to take a side cover to them here in Toronto
to match the white and red on my 86. I wanted to paint the white air scoops red to
match the fairing better.
Napa also will match any colour .
I had them put their paint machine on the hood of my truck a number of years ago 
and the matched was very good . They mixed it up and put it in a spray can and gave me a small can
with the extra for about $40   

Good luck
Bob

Robert
1985 FJ1100  Original Owner
1986 FJ1200  X Drag Bike
1981 Suzuki GS 1100ex
1981 Suzuki GS 750ex

fj1289

Quote from: RPM - Robert on September 01, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Wrapped both cars for around $500, $250 per car. Non fluorescent colors are even cheaper. Vinyl is cheaper than paint, and fairly easy to do.

Robert - are the colored sides different pieces of vinyl?

pict

Quote from: Hemi Bob on September 01, 2021, 08:13:25 PM
Hi John
I have heard some good things about https://rondex.ca/
the will match any paint colour part you send them.
Or bring to them.
Then put it in a rattle can or sell you any  amount you want.
Have no idea of cost. I was going to take a side cover to them here in Toronto
to match the white and red on my 86. I wanted to paint the white air scoops red to
match the fairing better.
Napa also will match any colour .
I had them put their paint machine on the hood of my truck a number of years ago 
and the matched was very good . They mixed it up and put it in a spray can and gave me a small can
with the extra for about $40   

Good luck
Bob



Thanks. Going to try the scanning match route on the side panel with a local supplier. I'm not sure how well it will cope with a tri-coat finish but I have a couple of PPG codes that are probably a close match to see if the results look sensible.
1986 FJ1200 1TX

Pat Conlon

It can be done....I had my local auto paint shop scan my Stormy Red and they matched the color really really well.
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

pict

Quote from: Pat Conlon on September 02, 2021, 01:42:21 PM
It can be done....I had my local auto paint shop scan my Stormy Red and they matched the color really really well.

Fingers crossed. Given the savings over the ColorRite route I can afford a test mix, and fine tune that if need be. Looking at the Stormy Red on the tank, and that on the side panels, the side panels are definitely lighter and a touch more saturated, but it doesn't jump out at you looking at the bike as a whole. I feel I have some leeway to getting it to look just fine. They are charging CAD$30 (USD$24) for a 10oz aerosol which I feel is pretty reasonable for a custom mix.

Getting a design together for the Givi cases that looks the part may be a challenge as there is significant moulding design on the side panniers that I don't think I can fight against without it looking stupid (they are Givi E360 Monokeys currently in metallic Burgundy). Probably play around with images in Photoshop first so I can get a feel for the complete look before I commit. The basic option might be to paint them entirely in Stormy Red with the central Givi badge replaced with a tuning fork logo, but would be nice to incorporate the bluish black accent pinstripe and some Silky White. Will look at that in a day or two when I have tidied up the levers and frame rails with the Ford Argent 1G.

By the way, I wired my petcock outlet the other day from the info linked to in your sig. Was never aware of that design shortcoming and it is a nasty one. Thanks for the heads up.
1986 FJ1200 1TX

RPM - Robert

Quote from: fj1289 on September 01, 2021, 09:28:40 PM
Quote from: RPM - Robert on September 01, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Wrapped both cars for around $500, $250 per car. Non fluorescent colors are even cheaper. Vinyl is cheaper than paint, and fairly easy to do.

Robert - are the colored sides different pieces of vinyl?
Yes, the orange and fluorescent yellow are their own vinyl as well as all the decals. Ryan had his Miata wrapped once with a sponsor that was paying for it. They wrapped the whole car in one piece and they printed all the graphics onto the vinyl. That was very expensive as I recall. We never saw the bill as the sponsor paid for it, but when we dropped the car off we had asked and they said something like what was being done was usually around the $3500 marker.