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General Category => FJ Project Writeups => Topic started by: Waiex191 on May 15, 2020, 09:34:14 PM



Title: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 15, 2020, 09:34:14 PM
Back in 1989 I graduated school and started my first job.  Between graduation and my start date, I rode a 1981 Suzuki GS650E from Connecticut to California and back.  Got to see a bunch of the country.  I intended to do some more long distance riding, plus with a paycheck I wanted to upgrade from my two '81 Suzukis.  I also had a GN400, which I still have and ride.  When I first sat on the FJ in the dealership, I knew I had the right bike.  I had also considered a Hawk NT650.  Very cool bike, but I could only afford one.  I bought it with 75 miles on the clock from the dealer.

Fast forward a few years - now I'm married with two kids in diapers.  I have a lot less time.  I had stopped riding the GN400 because I needed to adjust the valves.  Then the fuel pump or something died on the FJ, and I parked it - then never got around to fixing it until recently.  I did get the GN going again a couple of years ago.  My kids are out of diapers (thankfully) and my oldest just got a Magna 500 from a neighbor.  It's time to get back in.

First I started taking the bike apart.  Bodywork:
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15151)

Here the carbs have been pulled off.  Nice and easy with the perimeter frame.  
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15149)

Sitting since 2004 (the date I wrote on the last battery) was not good for the carbs.  Everything had turned to glue.  In trying to get the float pivots out, I managed to break a couple of pivot mounts.  Also I stripped an emulsion tube.  Not good.  Here is the first pivot I broke:
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15154)

At this point it was clear that I couldn't proceed with the carbs together.  And, once you are truly screwed, you have nothing to lose.  So I separated them.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15153)

To fix it, I drilled a couple of .040" holes and safety wired the broken piece back on.  
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15148)

(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15156)

Then I broke another one.  This pin was really stuck.  You can see I've bent the pin as well.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15152)

With the bent pin, I had to dremel off the other side so I could remove the float.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15157)

I safety wired this one back on too.  Curious what the peanut gallery thinks of this repair, or if there are any other ideas out there.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15146)

(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15147)

I mentioned I stripped an emulsion tube.  That sucker was really glued in place.  Try 2: I ground a screwdriver until it was an awesome fit.  Then I PB blastered up the jet.  Then it was time for heat.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15150)

Success!
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15155)

Using the torch and PB blaster I went after the damaged emulsion tube.  I got it out.  You can see how badly I buggered it up.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15158)

So now I've got another float and emulsion tube coming via ebay.  I'm looking for recommendations on carb rebuild kits.  As a minimum I think I want to replace the fuel transfer o-rings, the float seat o-ring, the float valves, bowl gaskets (which I'll probably make), and some of the other vent looking thing o-rings.  

More to come...


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 15, 2020, 09:47:44 PM
So during the middle of the activities of the prior post, I decided to see if the motor was seized or not.
https://youtu.be/mjeyf-bbH2M

Also did a check of my fuel pump.
https://youtu.be/Bfzu3ZcGYCw


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ1200W on May 15, 2020, 10:58:42 PM

To fix it, I drilled a couple of .040" holes and safety wired the broken piece back on.....


I might have a set of FJ1100 carburetor bodies I'd make you a deal on. Let me know if I should check.

Good luck!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Ted Schefelbein on May 16, 2020, 08:37:00 AM
Drilling .040 holes in anything is a DRAG! How many bits did you go through? The offer of a couple replacement bodies, above, seems like a good thing to me.

For the last few years, I’ve used the 1 gallon cans of Berryman dip type carb cleaner when attacking dirty equipment. If I have a seized part, a good soak in that stuff will do much to loosen it. Yes, it eats plastic and O rings, but, at that point, those things are going to need to be replaced, anyway.

Good luck getting you bike road worthy. Looks like a project that will keep you close to home for a bit.

Ted


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 16, 2020, 09:33:49 AM
Steve,
I might be interested in the carb bodies.  I may try my current repair first though.  What is the parts compatibility between the 1100 and 1200?  For my 37K-ish miles I've done nothing to the bike except oil & filter changes, valve adjustments, and tires.  I'm not well versed in what parts swap.

Ted, I broke two bits - both on the same hole.  It was late and I was tired.  Otherwise it wasn't too bad.  I used the drill press, high speed, and cleared the chips frequently.  Of course a drill that small doesn't clear itself at all.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on May 16, 2020, 11:21:00 AM
Just be aware how thoroughly the carbs have to be cleaned.  Takes most of us a couple false attempts before really getting them right. 

And, stating the obvious, I’d replace all the brass in them just to be sure - and helps get to all the passages that have to be thoroughly cleaned.

RPM (banner at top) will have everything you need - including the screw and o-ring replacement kit too.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 16, 2020, 12:13:23 PM
Just be aware how thoroughly the carbs have to be cleaned.  Takes most of us a couple false attempts before really getting them right. 

And, stating the obvious, I’d replace all the brass in them just to be sure - and helps get to all the passages that have to be thoroughly cleaned.

RPM (banner at top) will have everything you need - including the screw and o-ring replacement kit too.

I'm aware!  I had my 1981 GN400 carb apart 5 or 6 times before I finally found the last plugged up passage.  I'll check out RPM, thanks.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ1200W on May 16, 2020, 02:09:25 PM
Steve,
I might be interested in the carb bodies.  I may try my current repair first though.  What is the parts compatibility between the 1100 and 1200?  For my 37K-ish miles I've done nothing to the bike except oil & filter changes, valve adjustments, and tires.  I'm not well versed in what parts swap.

Here are some pictures. There are others here far more knowledgeable than I as to what will swap and what will not.

I'd sell the whole thing as it is or just the bodies you want.

Reasonable offers considered.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ1200W on May 16, 2020, 02:10:18 PM
One more pic

I have only used these for wall art. They came with some parts I bought.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 17, 2020, 11:07:08 PM
Thanks Steve, that looks like a great option if my fix is not good.

I figure that I'll probably have these carbs apart more than once.  I know I did on my GN400, but that is only one cylinder/carb.  So I thought I'd make some tooling for bowl gaskets.

Here I've drilled the big hole from the bowl protrusion (no idea what it is called or what it is for) and I am match drilling the 4 holes for the bowl screws.  The material is phenolic, maybe 1/2" thick or so.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15206)

Next I've screwed down  the tool through 3 pieces of gasket paper (forgot the 4th) into scrap plywood and am transferring holes.  
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15205)

Trimming around the outside of the tool.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15208)

Marking the inside cutout.  After making my first gasket I went back and located six 1/4" holes in the inside corners of the cutout.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15207)

Fit on the bowl:
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15210)

Fit on the carb body.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15209)

Also I found my original factory shop manual this morning.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on May 18, 2020, 04:39:43 AM

....... through 3 pieces of gasket paper....


Good stuff Bryan. Does the "paper" you're using have some thickness too it? I know everyone's terminology is different but what is generally referred to as gasket paper is thin (like paper). The bowls and carby body mating surfaces are not machined and as such, do not form a good seal, the gasket needs a bit of thickness to take up any irregularities.
Providing you don't tear them, they can be re-used almost indefinitely, they're not submerged nor under pressure but fuel has a very low viscosity.

Noel

 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 18, 2020, 07:21:51 AM
Noel,
I'm using Fel-Pro 3157.  It's about 1/32" thick, or about 0.8mm.
https://www.amazon.com/3157-Fel-Pro-3157-material-para-juntas/dp/B000CNISM2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=felpro%2B3157&qid=1589807650&sr=8-1&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/3157-Fel-Pro-3157-material-para-juntas/dp/B000CNISM2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=felpro%2B3157&qid=1589807650&sr=8-1&th=1)

Most of my old gaskets did not survive taking the bowls off after a 16 year nap.  And I can attest that they are rock-hard. 

When I did my GN400 carb (several times) I used Fel-Pro 3045.  That worked ok but it seemed to soak up some gas.  The 3157 is rubber fiber based and should be better in this application.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on May 18, 2020, 08:21:11 AM
Noel,
I'm using Fel-Pro 3157.  It's about 1/32" thick, or about 0.8mm.
https://www.amazon.com/3157-Fel-Pro-3157-material-para-juntas/dp/B000CNISM2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=felpro%2B3157&qid=1589807650&sr=8-1&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/3157-Fel-Pro-3157-material-para-juntas/dp/B000CNISM2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=felpro%2B3157&qid=1589807650&sr=8-1&th=1)

Most of my old gaskets did not survive taking the bowls off after a 16 year nap.  And I can attest that they are rock-hard. 

When I did my GN400 carb (several times) I used Fel-Pro 3045.  That worked ok but it seemed to soak up some gas.  The 3157 is rubber fiber based and should be better in this application.

Sounds like you're on top of it.

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 20, 2020, 11:17:56 AM
Here are the results of my rev-2 to the gasket template.  Instead of drawing the inside line using an old gasket, and then cutting it out, I've added six holes to define the perimeter of the inside of the gasket.  Then I can go back and use a ruler to cut it out easily.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15273)

I had delusions of reusing all my screws.  I did strip a couple of screws holding the diaphram covers on.  I dremeled a slot into them and got them off.  Rather than just get the RPM o-ring kit looks like I'll be getting the one with new screws.  
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15275)

First diaphram out.  Needle is a bit dirty.  Do I need to pull the needle to clean it any more?  
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15274)

Here they are all out.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15280)

Four stripped carbs.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15279)

Next I went to work on the brakes.  I noticed my fender mount holes are busted, probably from my awesome movers.  This bike has gone through two moves while dormant.  Anybody have a good fix?  I may try something with fiberglass.  My '98 Saturn has plastic body panels and I am also seeing brittle old plastic there.  I busted a lot of mount tabs and re-fabricated them in glass.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15278)

Brake shoes from the left side:
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15276)

Here is the right front brake.  Looks pretty nasty.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15277)

I realized what I was calling an emulsion tube is really just the pilot jet.  It seems the emulsion tube is pinned into place and I'm not sure how to remove it to clean it.  I'm going to search the forums but also welcome any links or other advice.  This carb is similar to the 36MM mikuni on my '81 GN400, but not exactly the same.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 20, 2020, 03:02:20 PM
The emulsion tube (aka jet nozzle, needle jet) is held in place by the main jet. The tube slides out thru the top (the bore of the vacuum slides)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 20, 2020, 03:12:02 PM
The emulsion tube (aka jet nozzle, needle jet) is held in place by the main jet. The tube slides out thru the top (the bore of the vacuum slides)

Thanks - that sounds easy!  I should check that on my GN as well.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 20, 2020, 10:56:49 PM
Our local EAA chapter has a lathe.  I turned down a piece of steel rod to about .01" smaller diameter than the emulsion tube.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15282)

Unfortunately I don't have access to the Bridgeport so I cut a slot with my 4.5" grinder. Crude but effective.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15283)

I've popped out all 4.  It was easy.  Thanks Pat!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 20, 2020, 11:52:46 PM
Glad it worked out. Be careful not to bugger the nub that fits the slot on the tube

Onward and upward... :good:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 21, 2020, 07:12:28 AM
Thanks Pat.  The slot cleared the nub nicely, so none of them were buggered.  I'll make another tool when it is time to put them back in.  I assume you want to send them home with something other than the main jet pulling them in?  Is there a shoulder that the tube hits on the way back in?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: JPaganel on May 21, 2020, 09:31:58 AM
Thanks Pat.  The slot cleared the nub nicely, so none of them were buggered.  I'll make another tool when it is time to put them back in.  I assume you want to send them home with something other than the main jet pulling them in?  Is there a shoulder that the tube hits on the way back in?

When you put them in, you should be able to push it in with your finger. They aren't pounded in, or anything. They can be difficult to get out because of dirt and varnish, but they should not be difficult to get in, unless something is wrong.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 21, 2020, 09:35:35 AM
Thanks Pat.  The slot cleared the nub nicely, so none of them were buggered.  I'll make another tool when it is time to put them back in.  I assume you want to send them home with something other than the main jet pulling them in?  Is there a shoulder that the tube hits on the way back in?

When you put them in, you should be able to push it in with your finger. They aren't pounded in, or anything. They can be difficult to get out because of dirt and varnish, but they should not be difficult to get in, unless something is wrong.

Yep ^^^


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 22, 2020, 08:04:46 AM
Thanks guys!  I got the emulsion tubes cleaned off and all the holes opened up.  The pilot jets were a challenge to get clear. Very small hole in those things. I tried soaking and blasting them. Managed not to launch any while using the air compressor - ever do that? I finally found some safety cable that was small enough to run through the hole. I had to snip the end and unwind the strands, and get a single strand. The .020 safety wire I had was too big.
I got the float seats also cleaned up nicely.  Took a small piece of scotch brite, rolled it up, put it in the seat, and spun it with a small screwdriver.  I now know what parts I need.  I'll be ordering from RPM today. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 23, 2020, 03:24:01 PM
Hey all,
I'm back looking for a little advice.  
Item 1: while cleaning out some carbon around the butterfly valve, I noticed that two of the needle valves stick into the bore a little, and two do not.  Is that normal?
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15298)

I've never had them out, and in fact still have the caps on.  Should I mess with them at all?
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15299)

There is the brass tube that sticks out of the carb bottom and seems to go up to the enrichening circuit.  On the bottom it sticks into a hole in the bowl.  It seems there is a tiny orifice there, a cavity underneath it, which is connected to the interior of the bowl.  I'm assuming the fuel slowly bleeds past the orifice to put a slug of fuel around that brass tube, for initial startup.  What is a good way to clear this?  I couldn't get my safety wire through it.  Nor could I blow it out with various solvents or compressed air.  The tube, the hole it goes into, and the passage to the bowl are all in line in this picture - from bottom to top.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15300)

I am thinking if there is no other good option, I could drill up from the bottom inline with the brass orifice plug, clean out the cavity, and then put a #4 screw or something small there.  I also wonder if that same problem exists in my GN400 Mikuni carb - I can't seem to get it to kick start when cold, I have to bump it.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: JPaganel on May 23, 2020, 09:12:48 PM
Reply with Quote
Item 1: while cleaning out some carbon around the butterfly valve, I noticed that two of the needle valves stick into the bore a little, and two do not.  Is that normal?

Those aren't needle valves. They are idle air screws.  Yes, I'm being pedantic, but if you search for info, you won't find what you are looking for.

Yes, they aren't necessarily set the same.  If you want to clean out those passages, get ready for the tiniest o-ring you ever saw. If you have a carb kit, they are likely included. If you do not, I would not pull them unless I had replacement o-rings on hand. Also, those screws can be stuck, and if you strip them, will be problematic.

Reply with Quote
There is the brass tube that sticks out of the carb bottom and seems to go up to the enrichening circuit.  On the bottom it sticks into a hole in the bowl.  It seems there is a tiny orifice there, a cavity underneath it, which is connected to the interior of the bowl.  I'm assuming the fuel slowly bleeds past the orifice to put a slug of fuel around that brass tube, for initial startup.  What is a good way to clear this?  I couldn't get my safety wire through it.  Nor could I blow it out with various solvents or compressed air.

Yes, that's the idle circuit. Yes, you need that clean, or you will have hard starts.

Because this hole is two holes meeting, you can't really shove a wire all the way through. And the wire does need to be tiny. I think I used a bristle out of a wire brush, or a strand out of a wire.  Otherwise, soak, and soak, and soak. Maybe boil, then soak.

Reply with Quote
I am thinking if there is no other good option, I could drill up from the bottom inline with the brass orifice plug, clean out the cavity, and then put a #4 screw or something small there. 

Never heard of anybody trying that. Wouldn't do it myself, unless I had spare bowls on hand.

Reply with Quote
I also wonder if that same problem exists in my GN400 Mikuni carb - I can't seem to get it to kick start when cold, I have to bump it.

Very possible. Tiny holes clog easy.



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 23, 2020, 11:42:24 PM
Pull those plugs out, carefully.
You have to get to the air/fuel idle mixture screws under the plugs for removal and proper cleaning.

The choke circuit fuel pickup at the bottom of the bowl is commonly plugged. That’s where all the sediment and varnish settles.  Soak, piano wire, compressed air or ultrasound are your options. Don’t drill.
*Be careful* if you spray your carb cleaner down that passage the spray will come out the bottom port on the bowl and...HIT YOU RIGHT IN YOUR FUCKING EYE... (don’t ask)

The tips of idle/fuel mixture screws poke down into the carb throat....as you see....some do, some don’t.
That’s the rub.
Unfortunately the threads cut in the carb body on these mixture screws are not precise. They can differentiate 1/8 to 1/4 turn between the 4 carbs.
IOW if you screw in these idle mixture screws “until lightly seated” then back these screws out 3 turns, you would think your idle mixture screws would all be the same....but you would be wrong. One carb may be slightly rich, one carb may be slightly lean. Yamaha factory techs never had to worry about these screw threads being imprecise because they set the idle mixture with a 4 channel gas analyzer. (That’s what the ports are for on the bottom of your header tubes) Setting an even mixture between the carbs was easy, just watch the gauges.

Back to setting your idle mixtures by hand.....Randy at RPM told me about the “Thumb Nail” method of idle mixture adjustment.
The key to getting equal air/fuel idle mixtures between all 4 carbs is to: Start the adjustment with all 4 needles in the exact same position.
You do this with your thumb nail.
When your carbs are off, screw IN the idle mixture screws until the tip pokes into the throat. Now take your thumb nail and feel the protruding tip, now with your other hand turn out the mixture screw until the point where your thumb nail slides off the tip of the mixture screw. *stop*
Do all 4 carbs like this....Now all 4 carbs will have the air/fuel mixture screw at the exact same starting position.

I have found about 1.0 to 1.5 turns OUT from this position is a good starting point for final tune.

To demonstrate my point about the uneven threads, after setting all 4 screws with your thumbnail, they are all even....now turn IN the screws and count the number of turns in until they are “lightly seated”.
I’ll bet you a jelly donut you will get slightly different counts between the carbs.

You can write down these differences in your log book, and/or mark them with a felt pen on the caps of the carbs.
From the thumbnail test point all carbs are even:
 If one carb’s mixture screw goes IN one full turn until lightly seated that carb is marked 0
If one carb’s mixture screw goes IN only 3/4 turn....that carb is marked -1/4
If one carb’s mixture screw goes IN 1 1/4 turns until lightly seated.....that carb is marked +1/4
This is just for future reference, down the road, in case you get the number of turns mixed up and have to go back to the starting point with all the needles at the “lightly seated” position, you have the needle position differences recorded.
 

While the carbs are off, use your thumbnail and set those air/fuel idle mixture screws exactly the same between all 4 carbs...as a starting point for fine idle mixture tuning.

Thank you Randy.

Pat



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Old Rider on May 24, 2020, 01:42:26 AM

The choke circuit fuel pickup at the bottom of the bowl is commonly plugged. That’s where all the sediment and varnish settles.  Soak, piano wire, compressed air or ultrasound are your options. Don’t drill.
*Be careful* if you spray your carb cleaner down that passage the spray will come out the bottom port on the bowl and...HIT YOU RIGHT IN YOUR FUCKING EYE... (don’t ask)

The tips of idle/fuel mixture screws poke down into the carb throat....as you see....some do, some don’t.
That’s the rub.
Unfortunately the threads cut in the carb body on these mixture screws are not precise. They can differentiate 1/8 to 1/4 turn between the 4 carbs.
IOW if you screw in these idle mixture screws “until lightly seated” then back these screws out 3 turns, you would think your idle mixture screws would all be the same....but you would be wrong. One carb may be slightly rich, one carb may be slightly lean. Yamaha factory techs never had to worry about these screw threads being imprecise because they set the idle mixture with a 4 channel gas analyzer. (That’s what the ports are for on the bottom of your header tubes) Setting an even mixture between the carbs was easy, just watch the gauges.

Back to setting your idle mixtures by hand.....Randy at RPM told me about the “Thumb Nail” method of idle mixture adjustment.
The key to getting equal air/fuel idle mixtures between all 4 carbs is to: Start the adjustment with all 4 needles in the exact same position.
You do this with your thumb nail.
When your carbs are off, screw IN the idle mixture screws until the tip pokes into the throat. Now take your thumb nail and feel the protruding tip, now with your other hand turn out the mixture screw until the point where your thumb nail slides off the tip of the mixture screw. *stop*
Do all 4 carbs like this....Now all 4 carbs will have the air/fuel mixture screw at the exact same starting position.

I have found about 1.0 to 1.5 turns OUT from this position is a good starting point for final tune.

To demonstrate my point about the uneven threads, after setting all 4 screws with your thumbnail, they are all even....now turn IN the screws and count the number of turns in until they are “lightly seated”.
I’ll bet you a jelly donut you will get slightly different counts between the carbs.

You can write down these differences in your log book, and/or mark them with a felt pen on the caps of the carbs.
From the thumbnail test point all carbs are even:
 If one carb’s mixture screw goes IN one full turn until lightly seated that carb is marked 0
If one carb’s mixture screw goes IN only 3/4 turn....that carb is marked -1/4
If one carb’s mixture screw goes IN 1 1/4 turns until lightly seated.....that carb is marked +1/4
This is just for future reference, down the road, in case you get the number of turns mixed up and have to go back to the starting point with all the needles at the “lightly seated” position, you have the needle position differences recorded.
 

While the carbs are off, use your thumbnail and set those air/fuel idle mixture screws exactly the same between all 4 carbs...as a starting point for fine idle mixture tuning.

Thank you Randy.

Pat



Thanks Pat for a very good and explaining post on the topic i have eperienced exactly what you are talking about on the mixturescrews has different depths of treading and will not be the same settings when finished tuning them.I use another method when setting them by looking down the plugholes and at the plugs
if it is soting on top of the pistons after some riding   then its to rich and if the engine starts popping then its too lean.This method has to be used on fresh
clean pistoncrowns and if it has sotted i use Q-tips thru the plughole to clean the little ring in center at top of the pistons and drive some more before i check it again.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 24, 2020, 09:29:55 PM
Thanks all for some very helpful replies.  Since my last post I've also discovered the carb files section, and there is a wealth of good information there.

I've had no luck clearing the passage in the bowl for the choke circuit.  However, I've bought woodcreekpete's 1990 carbs he had for sale.  Missing diaphragms, but mine are good.  Between my plogged bowls, broken float supports, and ruined float, his carb parts should make me whole again.  I've also got an order into RPM for o-rings, screws, and a couple other things.

So having learned about this passage in the bowl, and also the emulsion tube, I did take my GN carb apart again.  The bowl passage was clear.  Here is the GN emulsion tube next to a cleaned off FJ tube:
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15397)

Here it is after I cleaned it.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15398)

Still took me 4 good kicks to start, where I would expect one.  That could have been because the bowl was dry and fuel hadn't bled up into that chamber through the little orifice yet.  But, it ran like a new bike, if slightly slower than an FJ.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: JPaganel on May 25, 2020, 12:54:16 AM
That is some serious crustification.

Good on ya fixing it.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 02, 2020, 09:25:59 AM
My FJ project is getting closer to the front of the queue.  Had a few diversions as always. Got the GN running good, replaced some seals and swapped in the clutch from the parts bike. No more oil leaks and the clutch doesn't slip when cold anymore. Interestingly the disks were not worn that I could measure, but the springs were compressed below the spec value. Currently I'm fixing leaks in my hangar roof which is a lot of fun.  My parts have come from RPM and Pete's carbs are on the way from Canada. Here is a pic of the FJ patiently waiting. I took it from the scissor lift I borrowed.

I'm considering pulling off the heat shield to clean.  Any tips or pitfalls?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 04, 2020, 02:41:45 PM
I’d leave the shield attached to the brackets.  They are held on my rubber plugs that probably aren’t real pliable any more - good chance you’ll break them if you try to remove the shield from the brackets. 



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: RPM - Robert on June 04, 2020, 02:45:02 PM
I’d leave the shield attached to the brackets.  They are held on my rubber plugs that probably aren’t real pliable any more - good chance you’ll break them if you try to remove the shield from the brackets.  




Clean away, they are cheap to replace when they do break

Carb/Heat Shield Grommet/Retainer (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3A90480-08395)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 05, 2020, 07:46:31 AM
Thanks Robert!  Those will go on my list if the old ones don't survive.

I got my left caliper apart.  I was having a hard time getting the system bled, and decided to disassemble off the bike using compressed air.  That was exciting.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15501)

I cleaned up the pistons with maroon scotch brite.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15503)

Scraping gunk out of the grooves.  Then I polished them up with scotch brite.  
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15502)

Caliper side one ready to accept pistons:
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15497)

These pistons went in a lot easier than they came out.  Nothing like getting all the gunk out and a little fresh brake fluid.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15500)

Here it is back together, except....
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15499)

I went to find a torque spec for the bridge bolts - the 2 pairs of allens that clamp down on the o-ring between the caliper halves.  My old FSM said to never take them apart.  Hopefully I didn't precipitate the end of the world or anything.  Anybody have a torque spec I can use?
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15498)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 06, 2020, 07:42:47 PM
The left caliper was the good one.  Here is the right side after I popped it off the bike.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15529)

Brake pads out:
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15530)

I was having a hard time getting these pistons out.  Finally I clamped them down to a hunk of 1/4" steel, onto a piece of inner tube.  I also made a little seal for the air gun out of a piece of inner tube, and punched a hole in the middle.  The inner tube seals the transfer passages and also acts as a cushion when it pops out.  I used the banjo port on one side to introduce the compressed air.  On the other side I removed the bleeder and used that port.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15527)

The nice thing about this setup is that both pistons come down, and they only go far enough to bottom on the inner tube.  Generally I got a 1-2 pop as they shot out and were contained.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15531)

This got them far enough out that I could clean them off for traction, and twist/wiggle/pull them out.
(http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19343.0;attach=15528)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 08, 2020, 08:03:55 AM
Not a lot of time spent yesterday - but after the family went to bed I went over and cleaned out the grooves.  Caliper halves are all ready for seals.  I've bagged them to keep them clean.

The secret of a project is try and work on it every day - even if just for a little bit.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 08, 2020, 07:30:50 PM
“ The secret of a project is try and work on it every day - even if just for a little bit.

Spoken like a man building a plane!  Agreed!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 08, 2020, 07:48:38 PM
Amen!  Tonight I'm headed over to fix the garage step the wife broke today (with her car).  But while the glue dries...


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 08, 2020, 10:37:29 PM
My plan was to spend a half hour fixing the step, and 90 minutes working on the bike. Ended up backwards from the plan. Still got the right caliper together. Tomorrow I'll see if I can clean up the forks, mount and bleed the calipers.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on June 09, 2020, 11:52:55 AM
If you're planning on putting new seals in, you might want to check eBay for a used set of monoblocks.

You might score better calipers for less than the cost of OEM seals, which are about $100 for 2 calipers worth of seals


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 09, 2020, 01:00:42 PM
If you're planning on putting new seals in, you might want to check eBay for a used set of monoblocks.

You might score better calipers for less than the cost of OEM seals, which are about $100 for 2 calipers worth of seals


What are monoblocks?

I'm working on a budget, so for now I'm reusing the seals.  They cleaned up pretty good.  If they aren't working I'll spend the money, but I'd rather spend it on the airplane project.

I don't usually clean my motorcycles.  Mainly I ride and maintain them.  Or used to, as I've not been riding much since my kids were little.  But with everything apart, hard to resist.

Here is my fork before:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/104_09_06_20_1_41_41_2.jpeg)

Using my favorite solvent (WD40) I got them looking pretty good.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/104_09_06_20_1_41_41_3.jpeg)

Brake pads back in.  Yep, forgot the spring clip.  It's in there now.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/104_09_06_20_1_41_41_1.jpeg)

The calipers are mounted.  Tonight I'll attach the banjo fittings and see if I can bleed them.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/104_09_06_20_1_41_41_0.jpeg)

That gold paint on the calipers will never be the same.  

Also, on my bridge bolts, I torqued them to 20NM.  Seemed like a good value in absence of a spec in the FSM.  

I've been tracking my carbs that Pete mailed me from Ontario.  Looks like they have hit the states finally, so hope to see them soon.  Still have all the other hydraulics to address in the meantime.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 09, 2020, 01:23:41 PM
Here you go Bryan,

Monoblocks are the Yamaha "Blue Spot" caliper s from the FZ1, R1, YZF 1000 R Thunderace, R6 - from the late 1990's up to about 2005.

Here's an eBay search based on. 2001-2005 FZ1

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=fz1+brake+caliper+01+05&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=+fz1+brake+caliper (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=fz1+brake+caliper+01+05&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=+fz1+brake+caliper)

They work with a FJ master cylinder, but work better with a matching FZ1/Thunderace master cylinder.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 09, 2020, 02:18:32 PM
Thanks Dean!  An upgrade to consider someday.  I love my FJ - but the brakes suck especially compared to my buddies Honda and Kawasaki brakes back in the day.  So will those bolt onto my FJ forks?

Also for those who tuned into my last post and didn't see pictures - it was a glitch in the matrix.  They are back.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 09, 2020, 02:41:16 PM
Yes, they're a straight bolt-on to your '89. With the matching master cylinder (also cheap enough from eBay) and a set of braided hoses, your brakes will match anything from the early 2000's and are a couple of generations ahead of the original FJ  :good2:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ1200W on June 09, 2020, 04:21:32 PM
Yes, they're a straight bolt-on to your '89. With the matching master cylinder (also cheap enough from eBay) and a set of braided hoses, your brakes will match anything from the early 2000's and are a couple of generations ahead of the original FJ  :good2:

I appreciate all the information as well.

My brakes are working fine, but those calipers look so nice, I may have to try them sometime.



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 09, 2020, 04:33:37 PM
If my old calipers leak, time to upgrade. Glad I didn't buy seals.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 09, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
It was silly to not check this before, but my master cylinder seems to be seized.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 09, 2020, 07:43:19 PM
Piston and seal kits are not that expensive and are simple enough to fit (although I've only done my clutch and rear master cylinder ones that were leaking, not seized).....but then again, neither is that full FZ1 set up on eBay  :sarcastic: :sarcastic:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 09, 2020, 08:17:12 PM
I just bought the $75 master/calipers/hoses one on eBay. That piston is stuck.  It's a sign!  Thanks for that link and the education Dean and DavidR.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 09, 2020, 10:04:45 PM
Because I'm on hold for my new FZ1 brakes to arrive, I switched to working clutch hydraulics.  There was still fluid in the MC but it didn't look great.  I could see the piston was moving with the lever - a real plus.  I think I'll take it apart anyway.  I used shop air to pop out the piston.  It was all pretty gunky inside.  Cleaning time.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 10, 2020, 03:15:07 AM
And you get a nice adjustable spa not brake lever with it too  :good2: :good2:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on June 10, 2020, 01:31:35 PM
You might even be able to use those brakelines.  The calipers I bought were off an R1 or R6.  The lines were too short to work on the FJ.  But, I already had SS lines on it anyway.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 10, 2020, 02:10:20 PM
Even if not David, the flexible rubber FJ lines fit and can take up the slight change in banjo angle on the calipers.

I put them on my 2nd FJ with the original hoses initially, but when I put them on my main FJ, I used new braided stainless lines (replaced the old braided lines I had on, which had tacky blue/red connectors and banjo's) which make the angle adjustment really simple (loosen off, twist and re-tighten  :good:). I also kept the FJ brake splitter, but as Bryan has got the FZ1 unit he could also check to see if that fits too.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 10, 2020, 03:10:52 PM
I'll use one of those sets of brakelines if I can.  I would not mind fabricating a set.  I found this company:
https://shop.revivalcycles.com/motorcycle-parts/brake/

Not sure if that is the best source of parts or not.  Also I wonder why there is a splitter rather than having two lines off of the master.  Would that be better or worse?  Would be two less banjo fittings and no splitter.

Too bad I spent all that time working on my calipers.  Maybe I can ebay them off, but not sure they have a lot of value.  Ooh, I know.  I can fit them to my GN400. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 10, 2020, 09:00:58 PM
If I was to make my own brake lines, any reason I shouldn't get a double banjo bolt for the MC and run two lines, rather than use a splitter?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 10, 2020, 09:20:20 PM
I think that is a better arrangement.   Makes it easier to thoroughly bleed the system. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 11, 2020, 05:25:28 AM
If I was to make my own brake lines, any reason I shouldn't get a double banjo bolt for the MC and run two lines, rather than use a splitter?

No reason, many people do - I'm certain in extreme conditions, ie racing, the 2 line set-up is definitely better.

Personally, I just prefer to have as few things as possible cluttering up my handlebar area and like the idea of the splitter. The improvement gained by having 2 separate hoses is not something I think I would be able to detect, or feel, in normal road use - given how much better than original FJ my brakes already are (FZ1 m/cly, R1 calipers, braised hoses and 320mm discs).


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 11, 2020, 07:31:16 AM
My main thought of running two lines off the master is two less banjo fittings - at $20 each it is less money even considering the extra foot or two of line at $6/foot.  I can see it being easier to bleed also.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 11, 2020, 08:54:53 AM
Another way ito run two lines is the Suzuki method - one line from master to right brake caliper, double banjo, and short line over the fender to the left caliper.  Probably less line used and only 3 banjos - but probably more difficult to bleed. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 11, 2020, 09:29:17 AM
Another way is to run two lines is the Suzuki method - one line from master to right brake caliper, double banjo, and short line over the fender to the left caliper.  Probably less line used and only 3 banjos - but probably more difficult to bleed. 
Interesting.  I had thought of that, and considered posting it, but rejected it due to the high spot above the bleeders.  It is less line but the same amount of banjos - two for each line, two lines, so 4 banjos instead of 3.  Unless there are banjos with two line connections out there.

In conjunction with that crazy idea, I had also considered finding or making adapters for the calipers to iso bubble flares.  I could plumb the lower forks with hard line, and run a single stainless braided line from the MC to the lower forks.  I think I'm over that now.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 11, 2020, 09:52:16 AM
I should have been more clear and stated “banjo bolts” vice banjos.  Yes, same connectors and fasteners either way you run two lines between three points. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 11, 2020, 10:29:16 AM
So it looks like the Spiegler lines from RPM may be a little cheaper than DIY, assuming a 2-line setup.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=S-YA0146&cat=39 (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=S-YA0146&cat=39)

Has anybody used these with the blue spot monoblock calipers?  I guess when I get them I'll see if the banjo fittings are in the same spot or not.

Also the picture at RPM shows a 2-place banjo bolt, but the text says no banjo bolts.  Anybody know if that bolt is actually included or if that is just a serving suggestion?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: RPM - Robert on June 11, 2020, 11:45:00 AM
When you order them just let me know that they are for the blue spots. I have them change the bottom fitting to a straight instead of the angled that the stock lines take. Either way they fit fine but the straight keeps the line a bit tighter to the caliper and looks a bit better IMO The ends swivel to allow proper fitment.

The kits that are non stock and "require" a different banjo bolt. Such as the two line, Spiegler includes the double banjo, the lower two they do not. Stock setups they do not include them either.



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 11, 2020, 12:44:08 PM
It’s interesting, my USD front end came with a single braided line to its right caliper, which had a double banjo bolt, and a single line from the right caliper to the left caliper. I considered using it, but also thought about the “high spot” over the top of the mudguard when bleeding.

But, to be honest, I just like the symmetrical/stock look of the setup using the brake splitter a have never had any problems bleeding my FJ brakes in over 30 years.

Mind you, $20 per banjo seems expensive !!!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 11, 2020, 02:15:54 PM
The Spengler lines RPM sells have adjustable banjos - they can be rotated as needed.  

 :Facepalm:

Two more replies I didn’t see ...


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 12, 2020, 09:21:09 AM
 Thank you Robert for the comprehensive reply.  Glad to see my thread has generated some interest and I appreciate all the advice and comments.

One of the mods suggested I use the gallery rather than embed pictures directly.  I'll give that a try.  I'm going to break my post into two and just do one picture on this one.

Here is my clutch slave all back together.  Wait, what is that spring - whoops. At least this time it came apart a lot easier.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_9_04_26_2.jpeg)



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 12, 2020, 09:31:59 AM
Ok, my gallery picture worked.  

Before I chucked the slave back on, I cleaned up this area a little bit.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_9_04_25_0.jpeg)

The snap ring in the master was much harder to get than in my dead brake master.  Still, with some judicious plier grinding I was able to get it out.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_9_04_26_4.jpeg)

One thing I found hard about the disassembly - the metal ring in the dust boot had rusted to the snap ring and washer.  It was slightly damaged during removal.  Ultimately I did get everything cleaned up and ready to put back together.  I found the snap ring had yielded a little bit, so I used some pliers and tweaked it out.  I greased all the pivots.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_9_04_26_1.jpeg)

In keeping with the theme for forgotten springs, I found this in the bag of clutch cylinder parts after I had everything assembled.  I figured it must be a return spring like the brakes have.  I took it apart but couldn't see where it went.  I tried sneaking it between the lever and the master anyway and it only restricted travel.  I am thinking it is my lost idle adjust spring - I must have put it in a bag so as to not lose it, then put the bag aside.  
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_9_04_26_5.jpeg)

With that sorted I put everything back together.  I used a vacuum bleeder to pull most of the fluid through, and did a few cycles of pump/crack the bleeder.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_9_04_26_3.jpeg)

My clutch seems to work now.  And this concludes the first part of the rebirth that has not been too much of a disaster.  


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 12, 2020, 11:04:24 AM
Hi Bryan - do you have a Haynes Manual for your FJ - there are exploded diagrams of most parts so you could see if the spring was part of the set up.

I got my clutch m/cyl repair kit from UK FJOC and they included an info sheet explaining how to do it. Perhaps RPM have something similar ? It might be good to check.  :good:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 12, 2020, 11:17:34 AM
Dean,
I have a factory service manual I bought from the dealer back in '89.  It is actually an FJ1100 manual, and in the front of the book they have appended on the various FJ supplements for the different models.  The top supplement is for my 89 FJ1200.  There is nothing about the clutch until I get to the oldest 1100 stuff, and it does have a poor exploded parts diagram.  Says something about a spring, but I couldn't make it out.

I am pretty sure it is the tension spring for the idle speed adjust.  I misplaced it earlier in the project.  Apparently I had put it in a plastic sandwich bag.  I reuse the bags because I'm cheap, and it finally resurfaced.  I've put it in my carb parts pile.

Speaking of carbs, Pete's carbs have made it as far as JFK (the airport) according to Canada Post tracking, as of a couple of days ago. 

Should my clutch give me problems later I'll certainly buy some RPM rebuild kits.  That $100 slave cylinder seems like a bargain!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 12, 2020, 01:44:31 PM
Ha ha, sandwich bags and plastic take away food containers are my downfall too.

Good luck with the work, I got a clutch m/cyl replacement seal kit for £23 here, which I thought made it a done deal that I'd just replace, rather than just clean and repair.

I've never gone with the Yamaha Manual.....in the days when I got my Haynes manual, getting a pukka Yamaha one was more difficult than winning a Isle of Man TT race  :sarcastic: :sarcastic:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ1200W on June 12, 2020, 04:53:33 PM
Well done!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 12, 2020, 05:26:09 PM
Best way I’ve found for bleeding brakes (or any hydraulic system).  One of those “why didn’t I think of that?!”

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18653.msg188783#msg188783 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18653.msg188783#msg188783)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 12, 2020, 06:37:18 PM
I've got teflon tape on all my bleeders.  Between the vacuum pump and the teflon tape it's easy to get good results.

I didn't work on the FJ today but my kid got plates for his V30 Magna and a learner's permit for himself.  First ride on the road for him. I was on the mighty GN.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 12, 2020, 08:50:08 PM
That’s awesome!   :good:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 12, 2020, 10:16:34 PM
Thanks!  First time I've ridden with someone since - well before kids. 

Time to attack the rear brakes.  They sort of worked - I could spin the rear wheel, but when I pressed on the lever I couldn't.  Felt draggy though.  Here is the fluid I sucked out:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_10_11_02_0.jpeg)

Rear caliper off.  It had EBC pads, so they have been changed at some point.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_10_11_02_1.jpeg)

Using my trick to pop the piston:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_10_11_02_2.jpeg)

It worked on the outside piston, but the inside one is stuck fast.  I may try the torch tomorrow. 
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_06_20_10_11_03_3.jpeg)

I don't need awesome rear brakes.  I need them to work safely, not leak, and keep the bike from rolling at a stop when I take my hands off the bars.  In my opinion all the magic belongs up front.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 13, 2020, 03:15:13 AM
Bloody hell Bryan....first ride on the road.....just got learners permit.....and riding a V30 Magna !!!!!!!!!!!!!  Your rider licencing training laws are wayyyyy more relaxed than ours !

Our youngest had been riding MX and Enduro bikes, off road, for 12 years, since he was 4 (up to and including a Suzuki RMX 450), but before he could even take to the roads on his learners permit/licence, on a 33mph restricted moped, he had to go through and pass a days training at an approved school and a skills examination.

After a year riding that moped, he had to do more training (both arena and accompanied road riding) and pass 3 exams (1 theory, 2 riding) before he was allowed to ride a bike of maximum 33 bhp power on the roads. He was limited to that for a further 2 years before being allowed to ride any bike he could get insured on.

To get insurance as a learner on any unrestricted bike (I realise V30's aren't "that" powerful, but a 500cc V4 ain't that slow  :sarcastic:) is simply impossible here, as well as being illegal.

Don't know whether that makes you lucky over there, or unlucky ????


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 13, 2020, 07:30:25 AM
Dean,
Many people here get a big bike as their first bike. I think that's really bad. I had a coworker who was going through a divorce and bought a ZX11.  Horrible first bike.  

My kid spent a bunch of hours riding my GN400 around the hangars.  Good low speed skills practice but of course no traffic experience. I would not want him on a moped or similar on the roads here.  In the states I think being slower than traffic is dangerous.  People here are oblivious. Where I grew up in New England, the roads were a lot different. Slower speed limits, curves and such.  Great for a small bike even mixing it up with cars.  Here the roads are straight and speed limits are generally 45-55 mph.  Heck bicycles are dangerous here.  

We are not cruiser people.  The Magna would not have been our first choice, but a neighbor gave it to him. Had been sitting and needed some TLC.  Less than 400 lbs, plenty of ooomph to be faster than traffic, but not superbike fast.  

I am not worried about him being irresponsible with the power and acceleration he has.  I am worried about the paranoia and judgement that he has not gained from experience regarding other drivers and road conditions.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on June 13, 2020, 07:56:24 AM
Best way I’ve found for bleeding brakes (or any hydraulic system).  One of those “why didn’t I think of that?!”

[url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18653.msg188783#msg188783[/url] ([url]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=18653.msg188783#msg188783[/url])


I read that link. I'm not brave enough to comment on it, but it's worth adding some further info (that applies to any method) in the interest of a good job.

Don't shake the bottle. You might laugh at that, but people do, if only from habit.

If you drop the bottle on the ground, let it stand for 24 hours before using it.
 
Brake fluid, once opened has a shelf life of about 12mths, unused fluid does not need to be discarded at the time, as he suggested. There is no advantage to continue bleeding once the air is out just to use up the fluid.

He recommends Speed Bleeder sealant, so he's aware of them, why not just use Speed Bleeders?

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: T Legg on June 13, 2020, 08:12:25 AM
I agree that over here it is dangerous to have a bike that isn't fast enough to get out of the way of traffic if needed. My youngest son rode dirt bikes as a teenager. When he turned 18 he bought a v-65 magna for his first Street bike. He did take a motorcycle training course.He started out riding it very cautiously and worked on developing his riding skills. He had great respect torwards other drivers on the road and realized that his safety was completely his responsibility alone,that he couldn't expect cars to watch out for him.He is now almost thirty two and an excellent thoughtful rider.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 13, 2020, 10:34:16 AM
My son was scheduled to take the MSF course back in May.  It's been cancelled twice now. He is scheduled to take it 15 July, if it doesn't cancel. Unfortunately not having that class cost him $50 more for insurance. 

After we got back from our morning ride, we swapped bikes and did one more quick lap. The V30 is no FJ1200 but it does sing at 11,000 RPM!  I can't stand the cruiser seating and controls positions though.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ1200W on June 13, 2020, 10:52:06 AM
Dean,
Many people here get a big bike as their first bike.......

1978 I had my 1st street bike.

Up until then, I'd had a tiller powered minibike.

Also briefly ridden MiniTrails, CT70's.

A Steen (Hodaka based) 100 was my 1st experience with a clutch.

So, for my 1st street bike, no classes, no training, we found, for $500.00, a 1972 Kawasaki 500cc three cylinder two stroke triple.

I did wreck it in 1979, in the high school parking lot, while drag racing a RD350. I was losing and kept on the gas. Another kid was riding wheelies between the parked cars and came out in front of me, at speed. Broke his bike in half. I fixed mine best I could, kept on riding. We lived about 15 miles from school and I'd jump on the interstate and in the colder days, tailgate semi's to stay warm. Not really sure how I survived.

That model had points, three sets. It took a few tries, but eventually I learned you could buy a complete, assembled breaker plate assembly for less than the price of three sets of points.

Good times


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 13, 2020, 02:03:30 PM
My brakes and fuel pump came today. We put this same pump in my kid's Magna.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 13, 2020, 02:55:43 PM
Yes, things are a lot different here.....population density 10 times greater than the USA (and further muliples denser than Aus and Canada).......training is a lot more necessary to reduce the risk of "early rider mortality".

As soon as our youngest had completed his test on his 16th Birthday, I removed the restrictors, changed the ignition, carburettor and sprockets on his "moped", so that it could get past 60 mph on a hill and at least keep up with single carriageway traffic.

Our US family really get stressed by the traffic density, vehicle speed, and narrow lanes over here and also by our lack of "Stop" locations at junctions etc (we generally have "Give Way", without the need to actually stop). When my brother in law, at 21, decided to get a bike (a CBR 600) in 1993, my father-in-law sent him across to us in the UK so that he could go through training at a motorcycle riding school some friends of ours ran. He also came out riding with us on our favourite roads on my wife's VF750. To be brutally honest, despite having completed a course at home in NJ and having taken his motorcycle "test", he couldn't even pass the test to be allowed to ride a moped here when he had his first session at the riding school. 3 weeks later, he went home a much better, safer, rider. Training saves lives - and I'm glad your son has a sensible father to help him (and worry about him)  :good2:



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 13, 2020, 05:31:21 PM
I used my clamp setup with the steel plate and inner tube, plus a little heat. The stuck piston popped out.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_13_06_20_5_27_46_0.jpeg)

All apart. I'm cleaning these up. My kid is helping a friend customize a '78 CB750A and another couple of friends fix a pressure washer.  Lots going on at the hangar.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_13_06_20_5_27_46_1.jpeg)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 13, 2020, 10:35:08 PM
Here is the outside caliper half cleaned up, and the inside not cleaned up yet.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_13_06_20_10_27_25_0.jpeg)

Lots of grunge on the inside caliper half. This was the stuck one.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_13_06_20_10_27_26_1.jpeg)

This one didn't clean up great. Lots of pits.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_13_06_20_10_27_26_2.jpeg)

After I got it back together I topped off the fluid and vacuum bled it.  Rear brakes work well again.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_13_06_20_10_27_26_3.jpeg)

I think I'll reuse my stock lines for the monoblocks.  The FZ brake lines look like the same tech as the old FJ lines.  If I am going to go through the hassle of a fresh line install I'd prefer a two line Spiegler setup.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 14, 2020, 12:44:17 PM
Question for the group: I've been running DOT 3 in all my hydraulics since the beginning. I see my new Blue Spots require DOT 4. Are my old lines ok to use?  I figure I'll install the master first then bleed the system with my old calipers in place. Then I'd drain the system and install the new calipers. That would flush the lines to some extent.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ1200W on June 14, 2020, 01:40:53 PM
Question for the group: I've been running DOT 3 in all my hydraulics since the beginning. I see my new Blue Spots require DOT 4. Are my old lines ok to use?  I figure I'll install the master first then bleed the system with my old calipers in place. Then I'd drain the system and install the new calipers. That would flush the lines to some extent.

I think you'll be fine, as long as the hoses are in good shape.

I've seen DOT 3/4 that's labeled for both.

Good luck!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on June 14, 2020, 03:31:34 PM
Question for the group: I've been running DOT 3 in all my hydraulics since the beginning. I see my new Blue Spots require DOT 4. Are my old lines ok to use?  I figure I'll install the master first then bleed the system with my old calipers in place. Then I'd drain the system and install the new calipers. That would flush the lines to some extent.

I think you'll be fine, as long as the hoses are in good shape.

I've seen DOT 3/4 that's labeled for both.

Good luck!

I disagree.
Replace your 30 year old oem rubber brake lines. They are long overdue.
The lines may look fine on the outside, but inside not so much.
DOT 3 and 4 are compatible.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 14, 2020, 03:55:14 PM
I'm sat in the middle, sort of.....I agree with Pat that 30yr old brake lines "should" be replaced, just as a matter of course, but if you're on a limited budget, then I can understand sticking with the originals for a little while if they were performing OK before you did the caliper swap (but I realise you also might not have that knowledge/experience).

I don't think I could ever "advise" someone to re-use 30 year old rubber brake lines, but I can certainly understand why some people do, if they weren't experiencing problems beforehand.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: krusty on June 14, 2020, 07:56:26 PM
Not sure if anyone else has responded. That spring you have in your hand looks like the one that goes in the outer end of the clutch piston and around the pushrod from the lever.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 14, 2020, 08:27:59 PM
Not sure if anyone else has responded. That spring you have in your hand looks like the one that goes in the outer end of the clutch piston and around the pushrod from the lever.

Thanks!  I see it now.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 15, 2020, 09:47:11 AM
Question: to rebuild the blue dots, do you need a tool to remove the blue dot?  Is that how the pistons come out from the monoblock?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJmonkey on June 15, 2020, 09:53:01 AM
The blue/gold dots rebuild the same, no need to remove the the dot.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 15, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
The blue/gold dots rebuild the same, no need to remove the the dot.

Thanks for the reply.  So what tools are required to work on them?  I see they have tools to remove the dot, but what is the purpose then?  I also see tools that grab on the inside of the pistons, are those handy?  Or not required?



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJmonkey on June 15, 2020, 12:36:40 PM
I rebuilt my Blue dots just like OEM calipers. Removing the center dot allows you change the color if you like. It also means you need a new O-ring(s) to reassemble them.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on June 15, 2020, 01:00:22 PM
For monoblocks, I tie wrap one side of pistons in place and force the opposing pistons out.  I then remove the seals and reinstall the pistons, tie wrap them and blow the remaining side out.

As you probably already know, watch out for your fingers.

If you're going to reuse old lines, the FZ lines are probably 10 to 15 years newer (assuming they're from a Gen 1).  If they fit.

A note about the brakeline splitter.  Using it keeps all the line flex between the splitter and caliper. Running 2 lines to the master cylinder means you have to be aware of the line movement and be really careful that the lines don't rub on anything when the suspension moves.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 15, 2020, 01:32:40 PM
For monoblocks, I tie wrap one side of pistons in place and force the opposing pistons out.  I then remove the seals and reinstall the pistons, tie wrap them and blow the remaining side out.

I never thought to remove the seals - that was worth the price of admission!  Thanks for the technique explanation.

I guess the spots are there for manufacturing.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 15, 2020, 04:20:34 PM
For monoblocks, I tie wrap one side of pistons in place and force the opposing pistons out.  I then remove the seals and reinstall the pistons, tie wrap them and blow the remaining side out.

I never thought to remove the seals - that was worth the price of admission!  Thanks for the technique explanation.

I guess the spots are there for manufacturing.

Also as I recall hearing (have NOT done it myself) — the dots get screwed INTO the caliper to remove - they DO NOT screw out as you may expect.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ_Hooligan on June 15, 2020, 05:34:37 PM
You mean they install from the center of the caliper?  That makes a lot of sense.  No way they would ever fall out


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 15, 2020, 06:34:03 PM
Very tricky. Hydraulic pressure would try and force them tighter.  Seems like good engineering. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 17, 2020, 07:27:43 AM
The carbs I bought from woodcreekpete came today.  Looks good - I think I've got everything I need to finish this.  I hope it still runs.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_16_06_20_8_38_14_1.jpeg)

The stock brake lines would not go on the blue spots as they were bolted up to the splitter.  I can see that swapping left for right basically gives the lines a 90 degree rotation, and then they should work.  Since I had to take them out anyway, here is a comparison to the FJ lines.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_16_06_20_8_38_14_0.jpeg)

I guess technically I could have just popped out the double banjo on the bottom of the splitter and swapped it.  But I decided to swap.  Here are the FZ lines loosely bolted up.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_17_06_20_7_16_11.jpeg)

The other cool thing was the FZ splitter bolted up to my lower triple clamp.  The steel horn bracket - no go.  So I am making a replacement.  I found some alodined .050 7075-T6 in the scrap bin, transferred the holes from the splitter, and bent it 90 degrees with a generous radius.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_17_06_20_7_21_32_0.jpeg)

The angle comes out above the splitter.  The next piece bolts onto the first angle.  There is a funny rubber isolator on the horn.  Not sure if its purpose is mechanical or acoustic.  I copied the hole shape to use the isolator.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_16_06_20_10_50_51_0.jpeg)

Here is the horn bolted onto the bracket.  Now I have to mate the two pieces.  Would be nice to do it in one piece but then I think fasteners are hard to get to.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_16_06_20_10_50_51_1.jpeg)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: GhostMerc on June 17, 2020, 11:11:21 AM
Bloody hell Bryan....first ride on the road.....just got learners permit.....and riding a V30 Magna !!!!!!!!!!!!!  Your rider licencing training laws are wayyyyy more relaxed than ours !

Our youngest had been riding MX and Enduro bikes, off road, for 12 years, since he was 4 (up to and including a Suzuki RMX 450), but before he could even take to the roads on his learners permit/licence, on a 33mph restricted moped, he had to go through and pass a days training at an approved school and a skills examination.

After a year riding that moped, he had to do more training (both arena and accompanied road riding) and pass 3 exams (1 theory, 2 riding) before he was allowed to ride a bike of maximum 33 bhp power on the roads. He was limited to that for a further 2 years before being allowed to ride any bike he could get insured on.

To get insurance as a learner on any unrestricted bike (I realise V30's aren't "that" powerful, but a 500cc V4 ain't that slow  :sarcastic:) is simply impossible here, as well as being illegal.

Don't know whether that makes you lucky over there, or unlucky ????


Here in Michigan I believe you can get a moped license at 14.  Once you turn 18 you only need to take a written test to get a motorcycle permit which allows you to ride with somebody who has an endorsement (full motorcycle license).  Once you feel confident you can take a road test.  We do have several colleges that offer two day motorcycle classes.  If you pass the class you are certified to obtain your endorsement.


Last year I broke a brake line on my truck and had a terrible time getting the system bled.  I had a vacuum pump and tried the old school two person pump method.  Eventually I bought this one man brake bleeder and was able to get it.  I then tried it on my FJ and it worked like a charm.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/3256_17_06_20_11_07_16.jpeg)




Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 17, 2020, 12:19:26 PM
I've been using this one, or one like it for a bunch of years.
https://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-63391.html?_br_psugg_q=vaccum+bleeder (https://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-63391.html?_br_psugg_q=vaccum+bleeder)

A good alternate to teflon tape is ez turn:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php)

It's basically what you use on aircraft when you want to use teflon tape.  Teflon tape in fuel and oil systems is evil.  I used ez turn on my rear caliper bleeders and it worked great.  Typically I crack the bleeders and run vacuum until I'm pulling fluid into the can.  Then I pump up the master and crack the bleeder while pulling vacuum on it.  A few cycles and it is generally good, and minimal mess.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 18, 2020, 10:38:30 PM
Here is my horn bracket when I thought it was finished. It was 32g vs the stock bracket at 96g.  Wheelies here I come.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_18_06_20_9_23_39_0.jpeg)

Unfortunately I put the nutplates on top and was not able to start the bolts from the bottom. So, I drilled off the nutplates and put a set on the other piece.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_18_06_20_9_23_39_1.jpeg)

While I was under there I also took out some old radar detector wires. I'm too old for that foolishness. 

I did pop off the cover for the MC. One screw was bent and the fluid is yucky.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_18_06_20_10_26_08_0.jpeg)

All the banjo fittings are torqued and the bleeder threads are sealed. Next session I'll be bleeding them.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 19, 2020, 03:41:03 AM
Looking forward to hearing your views after trying the brakes vs the original set-up.  :good2:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 19, 2020, 06:21:14 AM
Looking forward to hearing your views after trying the brakes vs the original set-up.  :good2:
Me too!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 20, 2020, 03:08:23 PM
No pictures, but I got the FZ1 brakes bled.

Pro tip: works much better if you tighten the MC banjo.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 23, 2020, 10:23:48 PM
With the hydraulics more or less sorted, time to get to the carbs.  I bought woodcreekpete's 1990 carbs.  They were missing the diaphragms so the price was very reasonable.  I set up a clean spot and an old bath towel for the carb work area.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_23_06_20_9_05_59_0.jpeg)

These carbs were loosely put together so not really any drama to take them apart.  Plus they were pretty clean inside.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_23_06_20_9_05_59_1.jpeg)

I was a little gun shy about removing the float pivot pins since last time I broke two of the supports.  So, I made this nifty tool.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_23_06_20_9_05_59_2.jpeg)

You clamp it in the vise, line up the pin with the hole in the end of the tool, place your punch of choice (I used an old #40 drill bit), and give it a tap with a light hammer.  Both float supports are supported nicely, and this isn't even scary.  I was going to get fancier, and weld a tube on the extraction end, and thread the hole where the punch goes.  But then I came to my senses.  And with carbs in decent shape this is probably overkill.  That's ok, overkill is my nature.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_23_06_20_9_06_00_3.jpeg)

The carbs were pretty clean as I mentioned, but interestingly enough the air bleed jets (or whatever they are called) were a bit dirty.  The #1 was the worst.  I've never seen one of these jets dirty at all, in my FJ or other bikes with Mikunis.  Interesting.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_23_06_20_10_01_44_0.jpeg)

When I was done I covered it up with a classic aviation shirt from the rag pile.  The screwdrivers with the white tape are custom ground for the air bleed jet and the pilot jet.  
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_23_06_20_10_01_44_1.jpeg)

Next session I'll give the carb bodies a blast with carb cleaner and compressed air, just to make sure.  I think most of my brass is in better shape as I went crazy cleaning it.  I have 4 new float needles, the carb o-ring kit with screws from RPM, and of course the diaphragms from my old carbs.  Otherwise I'll evaluate, pick and choose the best parts and assemble.  I did verify the bowl passages for the starting circuit were not blocked.  



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on June 24, 2020, 03:36:24 AM

You clamp it in the vise, line up the pin with the hole in the end of the tool, place your punch of choice (I used an old #40 drill bit), and give it a tap with a light hammer.  Both float supports are supported nicely, and this isn't even scary.  I was going to get fancier, and weld a tube on the extraction end, and thread the hole where the punch goes.  But then I came to my senses.  And with carbs in decent shape this is probably overkill.  That's ok, overkill is my nature.
([url]http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_23_06_20_9_06_00_3.jpeg[/url])



Well done, nothing spoils your day like snapping off a float post.  Is the hammer in the photo the one you used?

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 24, 2020, 07:26:37 AM
Well done, nothing spoils your day like snapping off a float post.  Is the hammer in the photo the one you used?

Noel

It is, and thank you.  I used the side of the hammer head rather than the plastic or rubber ends.  It is pretty light.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 25, 2020, 03:04:13 PM
Question - what should I use to lubricate all the o-rings for the fuel system?  Left to my own devices I'd probably use WD40.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: krusty on June 25, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
Curious. Why would fuel system O rings need lubrication?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 25, 2020, 08:18:42 PM
Just to get them installed without damage.

Another question: for the idle air screws is it needle, spring, washer, o-ring or is the washer on the bottom?

Edit: I took apart a couple of my old carb idle air screws.  O-ring on bottom.

To get the plug out I drilled a #40 hole in the plug, screwed a #4 screw into it with a little WD-40 to lube the threads, and used the screw to push out the plug.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on June 25, 2020, 08:36:26 PM
Question - what should I use to lubricate all the o-rings for the fuel system?  Left to my own devices I'd probably use WD40.

I've never heard of anyone wanting to this but as Red pointed out yesterday, WD40 is 50% kero. The bulk of the remainder is some sort of Paraffin derived oil that is the water disbursing agent, it has no enduring lubricating qualities. It is a penetrant, not a lubricant. IMO.

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 25, 2020, 09:18:17 PM


Back to setting your idle mixtures by hand.....Randy at RPM told me about the “Thumb Nail” method of idle mixture adjustment.
The key to getting equal air/fuel idle mixtures between all 4 carbs is to: Start the adjustment with all 4 needles in the exact same position.
You do this with your thumb nail.
When your carbs are off, screw IN the idle mixture screws until the tip pokes into the throat. Now take your thumb nail and feel the protruding tip, now with your other hand turn out the mixture screw until the point where your thumb nail slides off the tip of the mixture screw. *stop*
Do all 4 carbs like this....Now all 4 carbs will have the air/fuel mixture screw at the exact same starting position.

I have found about 1.0 to 1.5 turns OUT from this position is a good starting point for final tune.

To demonstrate my point about the uneven threads, after setting all 4 screws with your thumbnail, they are all even....now turn IN the screws and count the number of turns in until they are “lightly seated”.
I’ll bet you a jelly donut you will get slightly different counts between the carbs.

You can write down these differences in your log book, and/or mark them with a felt pen on the caps of the carbs.
From the thumbnail test point all carbs are even:
 If one carb’s mixture screw goes IN one full turn until lightly seated that carb is marked 0
If one carb’s mixture screw goes IN only 3/4 turn....that carb is marked -1/4
If one carb’s mixture screw goes IN 1 1/4 turns until lightly seated.....that carb is marked +1/4
This is just for future reference, down the road, in case you get the number of turns mixed up and have to go back to the starting point with all the needles at the “lightly seated” position, you have the needle position differences recorded.
 

While the carbs are off, use your thumbnail and set those air/fuel idle mixture screws exactly the same between all 4 carbs...as a starting point for fine idle mixture tuning.

Thank you Randy.

Pat

Pat/Randy/anybody,
I've just set my idle air screws using this procedure.  Three of them went in 2 7/8 turns to lightly seated, and one was about 2 3/4 turns.  So after these are set, how do you do the final adjustment that is hinted at here?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 25, 2020, 09:24:41 PM
Question - what should I use to lubricate all the o-rings for the fuel system?  Left to my own devices I'd probably use WD40.

I've never heard of anyone wanting to this but as Red pointed out yesterday, WD40 is 50% kero. The bulk of the remainder is some sort of Paraffin derived oil that is the water disbursing agent, it has no enduring lubricating qualities. It is a penetrant, not a lubricant. IMO.

Noel

True, but I only need it to lubricate long enough to assemble. With a little WD-40 on the float valve body it slides into the bore nicely.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on June 25, 2020, 09:32:00 PM
Question - what should I use to lubricate all the o-rings for the fuel system?  Left to my own devices I'd probably use WD40.

I've never heard of anyone wanting to this but as Red pointed out yesterday, WD40 is 50% kero. The bulk of the remainder is some sort of Paraffin derived oil that is the water disbursing agent, it has no enduring lubricating qualities. It is a penetrant, not a lubricant. IMO.

Noel

True, but I only need it to lubricate long enough to assemble. With a little WD-40 on the float valve body it slides into the bore nicely.

Fair enough. If it did the job you wanted, that's all it had to do.

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 25, 2020, 10:50:04 PM
Here is my RPM o-ring and screw kit. So many parts I had to separate them out.  I also bought float needles and pivots from RPM.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_25_06_20_10_40_48_0.jpeg)

Today I installed the emulsion tube, main jet, pilot jet, air bleed jet, air bleed screw, float valve seat, and choke on all carbs.  I have set the float height on #1.  Whilst setting it, I found a #40 drill bit is the perfect diameter. 
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_25_06_20_10_40_49_1.jpeg)

After setting it I drove the real pin home and double checked.  It was good.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_25_06_20_10_40_49_2.jpeg)

One carb bottom is buttoned up.  Three to go.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 26, 2020, 08:11:22 AM
Noel,
I didn't want to dilute Mark's thread so I'm asking the question in my own.  Are those stock pipes?  Once you polish how much maintenance is needed to keep them looking good?

I gave up on exhaust coatings, not because of cost, but whatever I used failed at the top bend on the headers given enough miles.

Why don't you just polish them, for free. They look good, the finish lasts a surprisingly long time and it's easy to touch them up while fitted. You also mentioned painting the calipers, I don't think they're painted. Fred (and others) will know for sure.

This is what lurks beneath...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7486/15637542064_2b86b54c14_o.jpg)

After they had a bit of colour from use

Noel




Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: RPM - Robert on June 26, 2020, 08:58:29 AM
We use a dab of motor oil when installing the o-rings.



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on June 26, 2020, 09:08:13 AM
Noel,
I didn't want to dilute Mark's thread so I'm asking the question in my own.  Are those stock pipes?  Once you polish how much maintenance is needed to keep them looking good?



Yep, bog standard.....

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7415/13102780604_ed4116d6db_b.jpg)   

This shows the pipes as they came off the bike, wet rubbed (to get rid of the OEM coating) and polished.

I don't find them too bad to keep looking good. I have smaller tapered, cylindrical and ball shaped buffs for my drill that make polishing in place easy, the trick is to not let them get too bad. I probably take them off only every 70 or 80k and machine polish them.

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 26, 2020, 09:30:11 PM
I'm about to set my 4th float. All of them have measured about 20.6 mm before I adjusted anything.  Old floats, seats and new needles.  Seems odd I have to adjust them so much.  Am I just being paranoid?  I have read all the carb files and am checking with the carb bodies about 70 degrees, so the float is not pressing down on the spring.  Definitely not the first floats I've adjusted.  I'm using my calipers set for 22.3mm.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 26, 2020, 10:44:12 PM
First diaphragm going back in.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_26_06_20_10_30_00_0.jpeg)

First carb together.  You can see my nifty RPM allens on the diaphragm cover, holding on the bowl, and holding down the float valve seat.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_26_06_20_10_30_00_1.jpeg)

Whoops - wasn't keeping track of the front vs the back of the carb.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_26_06_20_10_30_00_2.jpeg)

Here are all 4 carbs together.  Next session it will be time to gang them.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_26_06_20_10_30_00_3.jpeg)

And in case you missed my post above, and have a helpful answer:
All of my floats have measured about 20.6 mm before I adjusted anything.  Old floats, seats and new needles.  Seems odd I have to adjust them so much.  Am I just being paranoid?  I have read all the carb files and am checking with the carb bodies about 70 degrees, so the float is not pressing down on the spring.  Definitely not the first floats I've adjusted.  I'm using my calipers set for 22.3mm.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 27, 2020, 06:07:42 PM
My carbs are now ganged together.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_27_06_20_6_03_54_0.jpeg)

I used a .030" piece of MIG wire as a feeler gauge to bench synch them.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_27_06_20_6_03_55_1.jpeg)

Now I really need to pop off that heat shield and clean. 

How critical is it to replace my manifold o-rings if I don't remove them?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on June 27, 2020, 11:05:23 PM
It would be a shame to have a partial vacuum leak from a dried out hardened O ring.
Those are the kind of things that drive you nuts when you are tuning your carbs.
You’ve come this far....pull those manifolds off, check them out.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 28, 2020, 01:50:33 PM
Thanks Pat, good advice.

My FJ project just got a major boost.  I was trying to pull off the GN400 exhaust pipe to track down an oil leak. Busted the bolts. This task has spiraled down to a broken ez-out in the head.

DOOM

I think my short path back to riding is to finish the FJ1200.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 28, 2020, 03:39:59 PM
OUCH!

I have a cheap set of Not so “ez outs”.  I keep the left twist drill bits that come with the set and throw away the ridiculously brittle bolt extractors.   Never had the left twist bits fail to remove the broken bolt or stud. 

Then again, maybe time to eBay a GN400 head and have it shipped to a shop for a valve job and porting .....


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 28, 2020, 04:11:03 PM
OUCH!

I have a cheap set of Not so “ez outs”.  I keep the left twist drill bits that come with the set and throw away the ridiculously brittle bolt extractors.   Never had the left twist bits fail to remove the broken bolt or stud.  

Then again, maybe time to eBay a GN400 head and have it shipped to a shop for a valve job and porting .....

I bought a GN parts bike for cheap years ago.  That head is my backup plan.

Working on the FJ. Heat shield is off and manifolds are coming off.  Pictures later.  Dean will be jealous how clean my top end is now.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 28, 2020, 05:33:52 PM
Heat shield off. I didn't break any of the rubber parts. 
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_28_06_20_5_29_11_0.jpeg)

With the shield off, I cleaned up. You can see it's much cleaner than Dean's from Rugby. *
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_28_06_20_5_29_11_1.jpeg)

Intake ports.  My new o-rings are installed.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_28_06_20_5_29_12_2.jpeg)

My checklist for completing the project.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_28_06_20_5_29_12_3.jpeg)





* This is a lie


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 28, 2020, 06:03:24 PM
Looks like a twin sister, Bryan     :good2:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on June 28, 2020, 07:09:26 PM
Good job....How do those rubber manifold boots look? Any deep cracks?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 28, 2020, 07:37:07 PM
Looks like a twin sister, Bryan     :good2:
You did read my footnote I hope!

Good job....How do those rubber manifold boots look? Any deep cracks?
They looked new ish to me. No cracks and the rubber was pliable.  Way nicer than my '81 GN400.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 29, 2020, 01:18:13 AM
Yes - Twins, but not identical twins  :sarcastic:

She's looking a lot better than she was. though  :good2:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on June 29, 2020, 08:59:11 AM
OUCH!

I have a cheap set of Not so “ez outs”.  I keep the left twist drill bits that come with the set and throw away the ridiculously brittle bolt extractors.   Never had the left twist bits fail to remove the broken bolt or stud. 

Then again, maybe time to eBay a GN400 head and have it shipped to a shop for a valve job and porting .....

Those spiral tapered extractors that seemed to find their way into everyone's tool box should be banned. The tapered shape puts all the load on one part, which is where it breaks. They work if the the broken bolt is no longer tight once the heads broken off but if the remainder of the bolt is stuck, DON'T use them.

I favour these (on the left) because of their uniform shape but increasingly find Torx bits (on the right) to be excellent and the hammer blows driving them in assists greatly in loosening the bolt:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50058478071_1ed84307d1_b.jpg)

Noel



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 29, 2020, 09:07:35 AM
Hadn’t thought of using a torx bit!  Will have to give that a try if the left twist drill bits don’t get it done first


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 29, 2020, 11:55:17 AM
Hoses on:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_29_06_20_11_53_10_0.jpeg)

Carbs installed and ready to go:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_29_06_20_11_53_10_1.jpeg)

A short video of the throttle & choke working:
https://youtu.be/JvKZ6gD0SAU (https://youtu.be/JvKZ6gD0SAU)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 29, 2020, 12:43:58 PM
Some spammer put a link in my comments and I couldn't figure out how to delete it, so I deleted the whole video.  It's now unlisted.
https://youtu.be/Dvm0MY04huc


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on June 29, 2020, 09:21:02 PM
I think I’m most impressed with the levitating screw drivers - nicely done!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 30, 2020, 11:53:15 AM
Levitating screwdrivers? 

Question for the group - if I successfully get the stock airbox reinstalled, who should I see to get my merit badge?  I've successfully navigated the plug in the breather hose challenge.  The inner carb boot fold challenge has got me beat at the moment.  Not much room to work there and I'm thinking of moving to special tool design #2.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on June 30, 2020, 12:40:17 PM
This is my "special tool" which makes getting the Carb rubbers on and in place pretty easy - very technical fabrication using specialist materials..........a metal coat hanger, a pair of pliers and a bench grinder (just to put a point on the business end, on the right in the photo).

It's about 18" long in total. The short right-angled end with the point is used to slide between the carb body and the rubber boot, then twist and lever the boot over the carb body. I was struggling with screwdrivers and levers and lots of grunting and pushing, and my youngest who was helping me just said...."dad, why not make a little tool out of a coat hanger instead of fiddling with screwdrivers".........sometimes a fresh mind sees the simple/obvious solution  :sarcastic:

(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6213_30_06_20_12_30_41.jpeg)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on June 30, 2020, 08:36:07 PM
First start!
https://youtu.be/ijs4bnqYksQ


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 01, 2020, 12:47:27 PM
A quick follow up on my first start video.  Sounded great, idled poorly.  Not sure how well my idle is set, and also I need to synch the carbs.  But, that was cool!

Before the start I drained out the old oil & inspected the filter.  I must have changed the oil the week I stopped riding it, back in 2004.  It looked pretty clean.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_01_07_20_12_19_47_0.jpeg)

I did get the carb rubbers on from the airbox, without tools.  I jammed a piece of wood between the frame and the airbox and magically they all slipped on.  I'd rather be lucky than good.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_01_07_20_12_19_47_1.jpeg)

A new air filter is on my list.  But for now I replaced the rotten foam with some weatherstripping I had handy.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_01_07_20_12_19_47_2.jpeg)

I poured a gallon or so of fuel into the tank and shook it around a bit, then drained it through the old filter.  Glad to report the petcock still seems fine.  When the bike was reasonably new, I developed a fuel leak on the left side, kind of at the corner of the knee pocket in the tank.  So back then I lined the tank with Kreem.  This time around, no rust or anything so the tank looks ok.  I put on new lines and a new filter.   
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_01_07_20_12_19_48_3.jpeg)

Question: from looking at the carb fitting, I figured it was all 1/4" fuel line so I bought a spool of it.  When I took out the old line from the petcock to the filter, it looked more like 5/16".  I got my 1/4" line on ok, but am I doing anything stupid using that smaller line?

Another question: the foam on the inside of my side panels is rotting.  Any recommendations or should I just use the green stuff I bought from JoAnn's (local fabric store) for my airplane seat?

Last night I added the FJ to my insurance policy.  Cost me an additional $14.63 over the GN400 policy I already have.  I guess I'm getting old.  Hope to get plates tomorrow, and maybe be riding by the weekend.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJmonkey on July 01, 2020, 01:17:05 PM
Fuel line for FJ's - Gravity feed 84 to 86 is 10mm ID (.393 inch) and fuel pump is 6mm ID (.236 ID).


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: RPM - Robert on July 01, 2020, 02:08:30 PM
6mm is correct except the inlet and outlets on the fuel filter are belled out to 8mm on the stock fuel lines for the fuel pump bikes. Should be fine and there is really no other option as the molded lines are NLA from Yamaha.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 01, 2020, 08:16:02 PM
Thanks Robert and FJMonkey.

My checklist:
1. Install battery box and other misc crap like that
2. Torque and lock the subframe bolts
3. Fix a pinched vent line under the airbox
4. Figure out where to route the fuel tank vent line and don't forget to install it
5. Solder fuel pump connector onto my holley fuel pump
6. Figure out/fabricate fuel pump mounting & plumbing
7. Fix front fender
8. Attach speedo cable
9. Install battery (I'm picking it up tomorrow)
A. Tighten up mirrors
B. Re-attach windshield as best as I can (missing some plastic screws and one plastic thing it screws into)

I'm headed to DVM tomorrow to get plates.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 02, 2020, 10:59:46 PM
I've gotten through a good bit of my list.  One bit of heartbreak - the vent line for the airbox wasn't routed properly, and was pinched between the airbox and the frame.  I had to take it back off again.  Life was bleak.  But then I made a copy of Dean's miracle tool, except I used welding rod as that was what I had.  I didn't think it would work as well as it did.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_02_07_20_10_42_14_0.jpeg)

I scraped off this yucky foam.  I also noticed one of the plastic heads that snaps into the rubber grommet is busted off.  Anybody have a good fix?
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_02_07_20_10_42_14_1.jpeg)

I'm putting a Holley Mighty-Mite fuel pump in place of the stock one.  We did this on my son's V30 Magna as well.  Here he is fabricating a couple of bushings for me to use as standoffs.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_02_07_20_10_42_14_2.jpeg)

Pump, plate, bushings, and bolts.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_02_07_20_10_42_14_3.jpeg)

Here is the Holley bolted into the stock fuel pump location.  Spacing between the Yamaha threaded holes is about 40mm.  Spacing for the Holley pump is 2.5".  Those 3 holes form two lines on a right angle.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_02_07_20_10_42_15_4.jpeg)

The only almost major task for tomorrow is to attach the fittings to the pump, and attach the lines to the fittings.  Then try it out of course.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on July 03, 2020, 12:40:48 AM
Oh ye of little faith Bryan  :sarcastic: :sarcastic: :sarcastic:  very glad it helped/worked !

But, I can't really take the credit, it'll have to be named "Ryan's miracle tool".....I can't take credit for my son's idea   :pardon:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 03, 2020, 09:56:45 PM
Dean, sorry I'm too late to edit my post. It will be Ryan's miracle tool henceforth.

I put fittings on my pump and actually hooked it all up. It works.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_03_07_20_9_49_51_0.jpeg)

Here is the bike after a brief couple of laps around the hangars.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_03_07_20_9_49_51_1.jpeg)

At low revs it runs horribly and sounds bad at idle. I can feel one cylinder is not firing and it cuts back in around 2500 RPM.  After 2500 it runs great and I had forgotten how much punch this bike has! 

Would be glad to hear some thoughts on the poor low speed performance. My initial thought is carb synch.  The spark plugs are the old ones as well. I set the idle air jets as per Pat's post earlier in my thread. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on July 03, 2020, 10:58:00 PM
Normally I’d say a dirty passage in the carb still.  But you’re cleaning seemed very thorough.  

Stuck float?  Any fuel coming from the overflows?

Or a bit of crud may have escaped from somewhere in the system and still clogged up one of the tiny idle passages.  Since is comes in at 2500 rpm or so, I’d say the rules out issues with the slide, needle and main jets.  

Maybe try draining that float bowl?  Don’t remember how accessible the drain is with the carbs in place



Another thought - I don’t remember what year carbs you swapped on.  If they were gravity feed carbs the float seats are larger and can be overpowered by the fuel pump pressure


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 03, 2020, 11:27:50 PM
Thanks for the reply. I think the carbs are pretty clean, and definitely no fuel leaking. The carb bodies are '90, same as my '89.  I did compare both float valve seats and they were the same, but I used Pete's because they were cleaner. Also before I installed the carbs I flipped them upside down and blew into the fuel line, and had a good seal.  For the first start was using a Briggs and Stratton tank with no fuel pump and it sounded about the same.  

Also, the bike starts well with choke when cold.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: krusty on July 04, 2020, 04:49:26 AM
Do you have a laser thermometer? Checking exhaust header temps could pinpoint which cylinder it could be.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 04, 2020, 06:57:29 AM
Great idea krusty.  I don't have one but I can check.

First ride video:
https://youtu.be/CeuR81odws0

Gives you an idea of how it runs poorly/well at low/high speed.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on July 04, 2020, 11:59:31 AM
Do you have a laser thermometer? Checking exhaust header temps could pinpoint which cylinder it could be.

If you’re quick - the ole spit on a finger will work too!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 04, 2020, 01:35:09 PM
...If you’re quick - the ole spit on a finger will work too!

^^^ Ouch (I’m a klutz) I dislike leaving a fingerprint on my polished SS header tubes..
 ....a squirt bottle works for me....


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 04, 2020, 01:55:36 PM
I borrowed an IR thermometer from a neighbor. Too hot out today for any more work.

The FZ1 brakes and lines are set up a bit different than the stock FJ. The line strain relief would not bolt up and grab the rubber grommet.  So, I hacked off the mount tab and used the reflector mount instead.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_04_07_20_1_45_03_0.jpeg)

Here it is bolted up. 
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_04_07_20_1_45_03_1.jpeg)

Seems pretty good.  I haven't actually fixed my fender tabs yet. That is for another day.  We did go out and ride a little bit. My son on his V30 was suitability impressed with the acceleration of the FJ.  I topped off the tank and the fuel gauge works.  Great to be riding it again and I'm eager to sort out this idle issue.

And the FZ1 brakes - they seem pretty awesome.  I haven't done any maximum effort braking yet but they are there immediately and seem to have a lot of power for very little effort.  The old brakes, at their best, always seemed to be spongy and there was a lot of initial dead space in the lever pull.  It was like there was air in the system, but I've done a lot of brakes so I don't think so.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 04, 2020, 02:47:05 PM
Bryan, the brake line holder bracket should go *under* the fender tabs. It acts as a spacer to prevent the plastic fender tabs from squeezing in against the fork mounts.
When folks diligently remove their 30 year old rubber lines (hint) a common mistake is to remove these line holders....and broken fender tabs result.
We advise folks who upgrade their brake lines (hint) and who remove the brake line holder, to put a 1/8” stack of washers under the fender tabs to compensate for the removal of the brake line holder bracket.

Another thing which will save your fender tabs is an RPM fork brace. Look at the holes on your oem aluminum fender strap....do they look oval to you? At one time they were round....
So yes, those spindly 41mm stanchion tubes do deflect.

Cheers

Pat


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 04, 2020, 03:56:53 PM
Thanks Pat.  My tabs were busted already, not sure if due to age or my horrible movers.  So are the holders important at all?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 04, 2020, 05:36:06 PM
If you want reflectors...yes, otherwise, no.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 05, 2020, 09:16:11 PM
I haven't done anything to the bike today but I'm making a carb synchronizer. Working fluid is some Dextron III I bought in high school and have been afraid to use because it's old.  The tops of the lines have restrictors. They are 1" long 1/4" OD fiberglass rods with a super small hole drilled down them. I'm not sure why they are not level. Either they lied to us in fluids or one of the restrictors has some blockage.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 06, 2020, 12:21:02 PM
My fluid columns evened up overnight. I am going to remake a couple of the restrictors as the exit hole was very near the edge.  I may go over and use the lathe and start with a spotting bit.

We just got back from a ride and at idle I used the IR thermometer on the pipes. Both 1 & 4 were about 180C. Numbers 2 and 3 were about 80C.  I'm slightly suspicious of the coil.  Any thoughts from the gang are welcome. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on July 07, 2020, 07:13:07 AM
My fluid columns evened up overnight. I am going to remake a couple of the restrictors as the exit hole was very near the edge. 

I think you're on the right track, the only reason I can think of for them not settling evenly and quickly is the restrictors are too small. Home made manometers are a bit of a black art, there appears to be no exact formula (excluding internet experts) for all the variables such as hose length, oil viscosity and restrictor size, all of which influence how accurate and how speedily it works. Then there's the ratio of fluid to air in the tubes, one being compressible and one not and ....... A bit of trial and error and you'll get near enough.

My own, which appears to be similar to yours and also uses auto fluid, has restrictors that are a short piece of solid plastic rod with a hole drilled through the centre. From memory, the hole is about 1-2 mm. Whatever it is, it could do with being a bit bigger or perhaps use a lower viscosity oil, it's a bit sluggish to register changes. Also, don't forget that if for any reason the oil reaches those restrictors, it will block them and manifold pressure is not enough to clear them. This is a good case for making the restrictors short, in fact as short as you can, it's the diameter that settles the pulsations, not the length (within reason). It's also a good reason to have the restrictors a reasonable height above the fluid, to allow for initial variance between the cylinders ( I think the forum has it's own term for that ) and not allowing the oil to reach them.

Another issue I have seen is hose kinking from engine heat, which gives misleading readings. To overcome this I fit a stiffer sheaths, a couple of inches long, over the hoses where they fit onto the carbs, to make sure they don't bend or collapse on themselves.

Once you've done this a few times it's a speedy affair, but if you're new to it and maybe take a while, it's not a bad idea to have a fan, the engine will get hot surprisingly quickly.

I know it is popular to just turn your tank around without disrupting the fuel lines (and providing fuel for the balance) but I like a quick fang around the block and then a recheck so I use an on board supply of about 500ml. If you have a fuel pump, you stick the hose through the top of the container, no need for a sealed outlet.

I used to have gauges but as it is only for my own bikes these days, it seems like an unnecessary expense for something used so rarely, the home made unit does a sterling job once you get it sorted.

Good luck with it all.

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 07, 2020, 08:10:07 AM
Noel,
I took my restrictors out and pushed my drill bit through the holes backwards.  I found some FOD in a couple of them.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_07_07_20_8_04_05_0.jpeg)

My columns are now even and I'm ready to give it a try.  Back in the day my dad had bought a set of carb stix with the mercury columns.  They eventually became mine.  Those were awesome, until one day they failed and there was mercury all over the floor of the garage.  I suspect that if my setup is close enough I'll get through it quickly, as this isn't my first time. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on July 07, 2020, 08:34:43 AM
Noel,
I took my restrictors out and pushed my drill bit through the holes backwards.  I found some FOD in a couple of them.


Yep, that'll do it. 

Glad you're on the trail.

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 09, 2020, 08:56:51 PM
So my #2 and #3 pilot jets were clogged.  I've done a test run with the airbox off.  It appears one slide is not sliding.
https://youtu.be/_rbLM2jMdls

I'm going to pop the top off #2 and see what it looks like.

It does seem to be idling better.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 09, 2020, 09:16:41 PM
Diaphragm looked good. I carefully reinstalled, turned the cover 90 degrees, and now #2 moves.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: fj1289 on July 09, 2020, 10:35:55 PM
Excellent! 

Just gives another example of someone that knows their way around these carbs still has to go in more than once to get everything as clean as it needs to be.  At two times time in - that’s better than average! 

 :drinks:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 10, 2020, 07:25:28 AM
Thanks fj1289!  I'm not going to declare it done until I ride it and it's good.  I was into my GN400 Mikuni 36mm carb about 6 times before I got it right.  I think a single carb 6 times is still less than a bank of 4 two times.  When I decided to get back to bikes that's why I started with the thumper.

Here is some documentation from the past few days.  I tried out my manometer.  I've nicknamed it the ATF ingestion and aeration equipment.  Here is one picture after using it.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_10_07_20_7_06_11_0.jpeg)

I got frustrated enough that I borrowed a buddy's set of gauges.  These are old and are from England, as is my buddy.  Gauge #4 is a bit wonky.  I set the carbs, then flipped the gauge order around by moving hoses and set them again.  Seems close-ish.  I'll probably try the ATF ingestion and aeration equipment again when I work my courage up.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_10_07_20_7_06_11_3.jpeg)

Because #2 and #3 were cold, I had a suspicion it was an ignition issue.  I decided to change the plugs.  The old ones were dirty but not horrible.  They look a little rich probably from using choke to compensate for the poor idle.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_10_07_20_7_06_11_2.jpeg)

With the new plugs in, I used the old plugs to check for spark.  First 1 & 2, then 3 & 4.  Seemed ok.
https://youtu.be/3BySyhAGNmQ (https://youtu.be/3BySyhAGNmQ)

When the #2 slide was not moving, I checked all 4 by hand and they seemed free.  #2 didn't seem to be making air sounds when I moved it though, but all the others did.  This is what it looked like when I took it out.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_10_07_20_7_06_11_1.jpeg)

Here is a run after seating the diaphragm.
https://youtu.be/l_p7nUxwmDY (https://youtu.be/l_p7nUxwmDY)

It seemed to be idling better, but still a little lean at idle.  Could be the missing airbox, could be it was a little cold, or maybe I have to adjust the idle air jets.  I'll put the airbox back on, using Ryan's miracle tool to set the rubbers, then see what I've got.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 10, 2020, 11:24:03 AM
Bryan, for emission reasons the USA FJ’s were factory jetted lean with the #37.5 pilot jets.
Those small jets seem to clog easily, especially on gravity flow FJ’s. Remember, you are dealing with a 35 year old tank without the benefit of a proper fuel filter.

Perhaps it’s time to spend $25 for some new #40 or #42.5  pilot jets?
The slightly larger openings seem to be more resistant to clogging.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3APilotjet (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3APilotjet)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 10, 2020, 11:56:28 AM
Bryan, for emission reasons the USA FJ’s were factory jetted lean with the #37.5 pilot jets.
Those small jets seem to clog easily, especially on gravity flow FJ’s. Remember, you are dealing with a 35 year old tank without the benefit of a proper fuel filter.

Perhaps it’s time to spend $25 for some new #40 or #42.5  pilot jets?
The slightly larger openings seem to be more resistant to clogging.
[url]http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3APilotjet[/url] ([url]http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3APilotjet[/url])

Thanks Pat!  I wish I knew that before.

What is improper about the OEM fuel filter?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 10, 2020, 12:22:41 PM
Oooops sorry, my mistake, I had your bike mixed up with an ‘85...
I see now you have an ‘89 fuel pumper with a “proper” fuel filter.

I was referring to the earlier FJ’s that don’t have the benefit of a fuel pump or a “proper” fuel filter. Those FJ’s are gravity flow and just have a sediment screen on the petcock. Marginally effective at best.
Your fuel pump/filter system is much better at stopping the crud from reaching your carbs and the pilot jets, which seem to the the first stop for the fuel tank crud.

Still....you have the small lean #37.5 pilots. Other than in the USA, I think all the other unrestricted FJ’s sold thru out the world, had richer #42.5 pilot jets.

Sorry for the cornfusion.....


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 12, 2020, 05:04:01 PM
I think we can close out this rebirth thread.  I put the airbox back on, balanced the carbs with the gauges first then my ATF manometer after.  I ended up turning out the bleed air jets a few turns and had to turn the idle down.  Whoever designed that idle adjustment is a sadist. I only got a few burns.  Here is it running after those adjustments:
https://youtu.be/UUODLvq7Szk (https://youtu.be/UUODLvq7Szk)

I put a petcock as a disconnect for my new fuel lines & pump.  The brass fittings really bite into the fuel line and are hard to remove.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_07_20_4_57_22_0.jpeg)

Rode it about 40 miles.  Smooth, powerful off the line, idles great. Runs like an FJ.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_12_07_20_4_57_23_1.jpeg)

Thanks to all for the help and encouragement, not to mention the parts from RPM and woodcreerkpete's carbs.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on July 12, 2020, 08:56:48 PM

.... Whoever designed that idle adjustment is a sadist. I only got a few burns. 


Glad to hear it's all sorted and running well. For future reference, if you crack the throttle slightly it will lift the idle adjusting screw off it's seat, making it easier to turn. As for the burnt hands, you get better at it with practice but a gloved hand is always the better option.

Now, ride and enjoy.

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 12, 2020, 09:55:26 PM
There are notches on the idle nut that fit a long shank flat blade screwdriver quite nicely.
Reaching in from the right side (throttle side)  push on the rear side of the nut = idle goes down, front side = idle goes up.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: T Legg on July 12, 2020, 10:27:33 PM
There are notches on the idle nut that fit a long shank flat blade screwdriver quite nicely.
Reaching in from the right side (throttle side)  push on the rear side of the nut = idle goes down, front side = idle goes up.

         I bet you eat pizza with a fork Pat   That's how I have to adjust the fuel screws on my rs carbs.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 13, 2020, 12:08:39 AM
 :rofl:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on July 13, 2020, 07:36:42 AM

...That's how I have to adjust the fuel screws on my rs carbs.


Travis, you know they make a low profile 90 degree 1/4" drive for that?

Motion Pro make one at $165. It costs that much because it's a "carby" tool.

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/232684095250_/Motion-Pro-Air-Fuel-Mixture-Carburetor-Tool-90.jpg)

The same thing can be bought as a general tool for a quarter of that or you can use what I do, a $7 / 90 degree 1/4" drive elbow (below).

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zEAAAOSw3bZcNshb/s-l225.jpg)

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: T Legg on July 13, 2020, 10:03:06 AM
Thanks Noel. I've heard rumours of their existence but I hadn't actually seen one. That tool would pay for itself.I'll check it out next time I get access to a real computer (most of our motorcycle shops have poor tool selections). I have made index marks on my fuel screws and carb body's to keep track of where they are set but it would be nice if the tool has a one to one turning ratio between the knob and the bit.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on July 14, 2020, 01:10:52 AM

.... I have made index marks on my fuel screws and carb body's to keep track of where they are set but it would be nice if the tool has a one to one turning ratio between the knob and the bit.


As you can see Travis, it is 1:1 and the handle body and turning section are made in such a way and marked so turns can be easily measured by both eye and feel...

(https://smhttp-ssl-52908.nexcesscdn.net/v2/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/m/o/motion-pro-08-0229-90-degree-hex-driver-3.jpg)


The handle has a detent ball which corresponds to the marked graduations. This can be removed, as shown below, for a continuous action if you wish to use it as a screw driver rather than an adjusting tool.

(https://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d82/N5XL/Sprint%20Stuff/IMG_1011-1.jpg)

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: racerrad8 on July 14, 2020, 06:21:55 AM
Travis, if you are looking for that tool, I can supply it. We used to stock it, but took ot out of stock because it wouldn't work for adjusting the idle knob of the FJ.

Let Robert know if you are interested.

Randy - RPM


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJ1200W on July 14, 2020, 07:02:00 AM
Travis, if you are looking for that tool, I can supply it. We used to stock it, but took it out of stock because it wouldn't work for adjusting the idle knob of the FJ.

Let Robert know if you are interested.

Randy - RPM

I'm not chuckling. OK fine I did a bit.

$74.99 should be about right -

https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0229 (https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0229)

50 inch pounds maximum - very light duty use.

I've not needed this for my FJ, but hey, tools are cools.

 :hi:

There is always the POS version

(https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_13031.jpg)

https://www.harborfreight.com/quick-release-hex-socket-extension-and-angled-bit-holder-96726.html (https://www.harborfreight.com/quick-release-hex-socket-extension-and-angled-bit-holder-96726.html)








Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on July 14, 2020, 08:29:51 AM

....50 inch pounds maximum - very light duty use...

...There is always the POS version


You're right FJ1200W, they are light duty, this particular tool is not a general purpose 90 deg drive but a purpose made carby adjusting tool

I have a number of the POS variations, the most recent one (as pictured in your post) only cost $7 on eBay and has proven to be surprisingly robust and does the job. They are fine for general use but if I had a bike with carbs that needed constant fiddling, I might actually consider one of these, they tick all the boxes for features one would want with such a tool.

As a tradesman I am special tool averse unless it's absolutely necessary, which is not often, but this is a well designed tool for a single yet specialised job, I like it.






Randy, it would be easy to make an adapter that would grab the FJ idle thumbscrew but it seems a bit superfluous when it's so easily reached by hand.

Noel


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: RPM - Robert on July 14, 2020, 08:50:44 AM
Noel the adapters that come with the MP tool fit the idle adjustment screw itself. However, the height of the tool itself hits the case right below the idle adjustment screw and will not fit in between to adjust.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: ribbert on July 14, 2020, 08:57:16 AM
Noel the adapters that come with the MP tool fit the idle adjustment screw itself. However, the height of the tool itself hits the case right below the idle adjustment screw and will not fit in between to adjust.

 :good2:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: RPM - Robert on July 14, 2020, 09:23:55 AM
Kind of a funny story as we had never used the tool and we had sold a dozen or so. We presumed they worked as no one said any different. We had a customer ride in to visit and saw I was putting one back on the shelf for our stock. He asked, "You know that thing doesn't work on these right?" I said, "No. I had never tried to use one I always use my hand." So he replied, "I got tired of burning my hand so I bought one of those but it didn't fit. I use it on other bikes but it doesn't work on the FJ." So I grabbed that one out of the packaging and sure as heck it did not fit in there.

Anyways, thread hijack over. back to your normally scheduled programming.



Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 14, 2020, 09:33:28 AM
Adjusting the FJ idle on a hot engine is unfortunately necessary.

I’ve been chastised by our Aussie forum expert that advising folks to use a flat blade screwdriver to turn the idle knob is bad advice.
He stated that people will bend the adjuster screw by using too much force.

I’ve been using a screwdriver for decades with no problem, I wonder how many of us also do this?

Yes, I’ve also done it by hand, wearing my gloves....


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Old Rider on July 14, 2020, 10:29:56 AM
Adjusting the FJ idle on a hot engine is unfortunately necessary.

I’ve been chastised by our Aussie forum expert that advising folks to use a flat blade screwdriver to turn the idle knob is bad advice.
He stated that people will bend the adjuster screw by using too much force.

I’ve been using a screwdriver for decades with no problem, I wonder how many of us also do this?

Yes, I’ve also done it by hand, wearing my gloves....

I do  but also used the one in the picture as i have it in the toolbox i carry in the fastback works great newer bent the screw  also use it on the hoseclamp on the petcock.Here is a smoking hot picture taken 3 minutes ago. :good:
And by the way i found adjusting those fuelscrews  is not easy i used 2 months with adjustments and plugreadings very often to get them in the right spot.
and i can say that its incredible how much more power also tourque the bike deliver   when the mixture is right on all 4 cylinders. next time i use a colortune or deliver it to a  workshop with the right electronic gas analyser instead


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: FJmonkey on July 14, 2020, 10:38:21 AM
Pat, I bent my adjusting screw using a screwdriver. Now I adjust by hand. Just not at a stop light while wearing armored gloves.  :blush:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 16, 2020, 08:27:54 PM
One of the axioms of my life is: the purpose of the hobby is to collect tools.  It's true for bikes, cars, airplanes, boats, whatever. But, I can't let my thread end with a huge tool discussion!

I've ridden 120 miles. I'm changing the oil and filter.  I put fresh oil in it before the start. I inspected and reused the old filter for the 120 miles.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_16_07_20_8_19_05_0.jpeg)

My front tire has seen better days.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_16_07_20_8_19_05_2.jpeg)

I couldn't find a new ME33 anywhere.  New Bridgestone Battlax BT-016 and a valve stem arriving tomorrow.  It's time I think.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_16_07_20_8_19_05_1.jpeg)

The bike runs awesome!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 17, 2020, 12:51:17 AM
Bryan, do you know how to read the date code on your tires?


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Motofun on July 17, 2020, 06:25:59 AM
Not to state the obvious but that tire is well past its useful life.  Park it until you get that POS replaced.  Of course you can always do a Burt Munroe and fill those cracks in with black shoe polish....... :good:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 17, 2020, 06:42:29 AM
Pat, I have no idea.  Would be interesting to know how old that Metzler is.

Motofun, my new tire should be here today.  I'll get it mounted and balanced this weekend.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 17, 2020, 07:43:22 AM
https://www.chapmoto.com/blog/2017/09/26/do-motorcycle-tires-expire-a-guide-to-tire-date-codes/ (https://www.chapmoto.com/blog/2017/09/26/do-motorcycle-tires-expire-a-guide-to-tire-date-codes/)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: GhostMerc on July 17, 2020, 10:58:24 AM
That old tire should be easy to read.  It's the last 3 or 4 digits of the DOT

Pre-2000:
WWY
405
40th week, 1995

Post-2000:
WWYY
4005
40th week, 2005


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 21, 2020, 02:22:11 PM
Is this my date code?  If so it is a 1993 tire.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_21_07_20_2_19_33_0.jpeg)

New tire ready to go on.  Was only $65 plus shipping and taxes.  It has a late 2018 date code, so I assume that is why the bargain price.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_21_07_20_2_19_33_1.jpeg)


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: GhostMerc on July 24, 2020, 06:31:56 AM
That's what that looks like.  Tire life is considered to be 10 years max, regardless of use. 


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on July 24, 2020, 03:46:44 PM
Front wheel off:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_24_07_20_3_41_18_0.jpeg)

My rim was dirty. I did clean it off some with WD40, a brush, carb cleaner, and some rags. Forgot to take the after picture.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_24_07_20_3_41_18_1.jpeg)

Goodbye ME33 Laser Comp K:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_24_07_20_3_41_18_2.jpeg)

A 2 second video of my balancer:
https://youtu.be/yW0HPtKd86M (https://youtu.be/yW0HPtKd86M)

We went for a ride and I put about 40 miles on it. Nothing like having a new tyre.  It's like getting power steering.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on July 24, 2020, 05:49:39 PM
Tire life is considered to be 10 years max, regardless of use. 

5 years max, if you store your bike on its tires on concrete.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on November 06, 2020, 08:01:30 PM
Bryan, for emission reasons the USA FJ’s were factory jetted lean with the #37.5 pilot jets.
Those small jets seem to clog easily, especially on gravity flow FJ’s. Remember, you are dealing with a 35 year old tank without the benefit of a proper fuel filter.

Perhaps it’s time to spend $25 for some new #40 or #42.5  pilot jets?
The slightly larger openings seem to be more resistant to clogging.
[url]http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3APilotjet[/url] ([url]http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3APilotjet[/url])


I had a clog at the end of Sunday's ride.  It was missing badly until 2500 when cold, and 2000 after it warmed up.  Fortunately on my ride today it cleared up.  If I ever go back into the carbs again I'll put the bigger pilot jets in.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 03, 2021, 12:25:09 PM
First the blue spots & new master:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/11/6694_17_06_20_7_16_11.jpeg)

Then the 2012 CBR250R mirrors:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/12/6694_01_05_21_7_46_36_0.jpeg)

And now I've gone and ordered an RPM oil filter adapter.  The slippery slope is getting me.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Pat Conlon on May 03, 2021, 12:45:11 PM
Don’t forget those 33 year old brake lines!


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 03, 2021, 01:57:49 PM
Don’t forget those 33 year old brake lines!
I've upgraded to a 20 year old FZ1 set - for now.  Definitely on the list.  There is a lot to do on the bike this coming winter, and the airplane is just about done.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Millietant on May 03, 2021, 01:58:27 PM
I’m sure Bryan got the FZ1 hoses with the full kit he bought as a set....... so they’re only about 1/2 that age......

Still makes them 17 years old though !! C’mon Bryan, splash for the Spiegler’s  :sarcastic:


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on May 03, 2021, 02:10:41 PM
Dean you are right, and I'm not sure what year they were.  The old ebay ad picture says 2001-2005 so I put the worst case of 20 years.

I'm thinking I'll be going through the front brakes this winter.  I just bought them, put them on, and bled them.  Used pads and everything.  My old EBC rotors are pitted from brake fluid leaking out during the 16 year dormant period, and I think they need to be replaced.  Along with that it would be time for new pads and the Spieglers from RPM.  I'll also be adjusting the valves.  I have not done that since I got the bike running, though I do have the record of every valve adjustment I'd done.  Also I have the records for my buddy's FJ which he has not owned in years, and who I haven't seen in a couple of decades!

The other thing I plan to do is to take off all the bodywork and fix it.  Lots of cracks going on.  ABS does not age well.


Title: Re: Bryan's 1989 FJ1200 rebirth in Poplar Grove, IL
Post by: Waiex191 on September 23, 2021, 10:33:23 PM
Changed the oil and put on my RPM adapter.