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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Duffy1964 on January 30, 2021, 01:52:54 PM



Title: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Duffy1964 on January 30, 2021, 01:52:54 PM
Hi All, I have a 3XW FJ1200 with ABS, but I'm looking to do the 17" Rear wheel modification and want to also fit a 3CV front wheel and discs with R1 blue spot calipers and totally remove the ABS system as its 29 years old and not the best.
So my question is this, have any of you done this and had any issues with your insurance company? I feel the upgrade will be as good if not better in braking terms, but will the insurers agree?
Any help on this will be much appreciated.

Duffy


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: FJmonkey on January 30, 2021, 02:17:06 PM
Duffy, insurance rules will vary based on location (country and or state/province) and insuring company. Where are you located?


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: andyoutandabout on January 30, 2021, 02:36:51 PM
Yeah, what Monkey said. I have a 3wx ABS in the UK and it seemed that both MOT and insurance didn’t like the idea of messing about with an OEM braking system. Rules were written by agencies that know nothing about motorcycles. The fact that removing an antiquated ABS system and upgrading with vastly superior blue dots, would be way safer, falls outside their rule book.
I wish you all the best for trying, but if you go this route, check, check and check again, because you know how insurance companies love their payments from you, but hate to reimburse when you need them most.


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Duffy1964 on January 30, 2021, 02:58:48 PM
Thanks, I am based in the UK in the Kent area.
I was hoping the insurance company's would be reasonable as this model was also sold as a non abs version too  :Facepalm:


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: andyoutandabout on January 30, 2021, 05:42:40 PM
Yes it was also a non ABS. Same color scheme even.
I’d be interested to see how you get on with the paper trail investigation. If you’ve got the time, you never know what you may discover, but don’t be too disappointed if you come away empty handed. EU regs have dissuaded bike modders for years. You might even find that Brexit opens a loophole. (There has to be some silver lining to that mess).


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Millietant on January 30, 2021, 08:07:09 PM
It's a huge grey area over here even today - any bike that is listed by the DVLA with ABS should have it working in order to pass its MOT test. But, on many (if not most) FJ's there isn't a mention in the log book that the bike came with ABS (and it was only an option), so the tester will not know, unless there are indications on the bike - like a glowing red ABS light on the instrument cluster or big ABS decals on the side panels. Also, I've seen it noted that testing brakes for ABS functionality on motorcycles is not something that can be done at a lot of testing centres.

As the bike came originally from the factory, both with and without ABS, there is no argument to say that a FJ without ABS should fail a MOT test, or be an problem to insure - but Andy is right, if an insurance company are sharp and it says somewhere in your documentation and registration detail that your bike SHOULD have ABS, then if it doesn't and you haven't informed the insurer, their view could be that you have an "undisclosed performance modification", which would give them the opportunity to invalidate your insurance and refuse to cover any claim in the event of an accident (whether your fault or not).

Personally, I'd check over my bikes log book and registration documentation for any mention of ABS and if there isn't any, I'd be happy removing my ABS system and not needing to disclose it (as long as all ABS equipment, warning lights and stickers were removed too) to an insurer.

I'm sure there is confusion over the MOT test process for this, amongst those of us who don't perform such tests, but as the FJ was always available from the factory without ABS, then it shouldn't be too hard to defend removing it, if done correctly.


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Alf on January 31, 2021, 02:22:40 AM
It´s possible to keep the ABS when upgrading the brakes. The mod is documented in my website,  Brakes section, and works perfectly, I´ve tested myself last summer


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Duffy1964 on January 31, 2021, 06:22:54 AM
I have checked the log book and it states the model as a FJ1200A I then had a quick google and the A states its an ABS model.
I guess the only way to find out for sure if its going to be an issue is to phone a couple of insurance companys to try and get a definitive answer.


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Duffy1964 on January 31, 2021, 06:28:22 AM
It´s possible to keep the ABS when upgrading the brakes. The mod is documented in my website,  Brakes section, and works perfectly, I´ve tested myself last summer

I understand it will still work with different calipers, but I also wanted to fit a 17" rear which would mean removing the rear brake sensor of the abs.


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Millietant on January 31, 2021, 12:54:25 PM
It might be worth saying that you're going to fit more modern brakes that aren't ABS - say your system has broken down and it's obsolete, with getting replacement parts being difficult - and mention the FJ was sold without ABS as standard - ABS was an extra-cost option at the time.


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Alf on January 31, 2021, 01:14:07 PM
It´s possible to keep the ABS when upgrading the brakes. The mod is documented in my website,  Brakes section, and works perfectly, I´ve tested myself last summer

I understand it will still work with different calipers, but I also wanted to fit a 17" rear which would mean removing the rear brake sensor of the abs.

The calipers works with an appropriate master, not with the original
My friend bike fit ABS with 17" rear. I´m going to ask him. I know there are a solution at the German forum. I will ask about


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Pat Conlon on January 31, 2021, 04:32:58 PM
Here in the states there is a company that can remove the narrow 16” rear rim and weld on a new wider 17”rim, keeping your ABS hub......it’s expensive.

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=13445.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=13445.0)


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Duffy1964 on February 06, 2021, 09:29:48 AM
Just thought I would let you know the outcome of a chat with Footman James.
I asked for a standard fully comp quote with no modifications = £145

Then got a fully comp quote for ABS removal and fitting Blue spot callipers, 17" Rear wheel conversion, Delkvic end cans with Dynojet stage 1 kit = £145

But if not declared and you claim the policy is Null and Void, so well worth a phone call.

I will phone a few more company's when the mods are complete, but at least I now know its not going to be a problem. :good2:


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Millietant on February 06, 2021, 04:53:05 PM
I'm glad you've done it properly and pleased it's worked out well for you (it usually does when you're up-front about it  :good2:

There are plenty out there (especially in the U.K.) who believe those who say they've done it, not informed their insurer, and never had a problem........those are the ones who haven't claimed and haven't found out they've been paying insurance for nothing, because they're not covered.

I've always told my insurer about modifications and never had a problem either.


Title: Re: ABS Removal / Insurance Question
Post by: Duffy1964 on February 09, 2021, 10:56:33 AM
Hi Dean, Yep I totally agree, its the slightest thing Insurance company's need to wriggle out of paying out. Just not worth the risk in my opinion. :good:

Duffy