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she won't start now

Started by 5speed, May 22, 2021, 08:50:48 AM

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5speed

well I tested the vacuum on it and fuel flows when I pulled vacuum..
so I put a small funnel in the fuel line and poured a bit of gas directly into the carbs and it started. so before I ran it dry I put the gas tank back on, it started right up and was idling good with the choke on. I let it idle for a few minutes, turned the choke off and it wouldn't take any throttle and quit.
choke back on, start it and it wouldn't take any throttle still. then the low fuel light came on and it quit.
Put more gas in the tank and it's back to starting and quitting immediately.
I double checked to make sure the vacuum line was on correctly and it is.
this makes no sense to me..but neither does how the reserve actually works either. If it's drawing fuel from the same source as the main or "on" position..why is it even there?
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

Pat Conlon

Quote from: 5speed on May 22, 2021, 02:41:46 PM

this makes no sense to me..but neither does how the reserve actually works either. If it's drawing fuel from the same source as the main or "on" position..why is it even there?

Unlike the old school manual reserve petcocks where you have 2 inlets, one high and one low...the 86/87 petcock only needs one inlet.....it's the fuel level sensor in your tank that signals the electric valve on the petcock when to close.

Hook up an auxiliary tank to your carbs see if that helps.
I think your vacuum petcock is not staying open....what does your tongue say?

I gotta run....I'll check back this evening....later gator.  Pat
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

5speed

Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 22, 2021, 02:59:38 PM

Unlike the old school manual reserve petcocks where you have 2 inlets, one high and one low...the 86/87 petcock only needs one inlet.....it's the fuel level sensor in your tank that signals the electric valve on the petcock when to close.

Hook up an auxiliary tank to your carbs see if that helps.
I think your vacuum petcock is not staying open....what does your tongue say?

I gotta run....I'll check back this evening....later gator.  Pat
LOL..my tongue isn't saying anything. I'll hook up my actual vacuum tester and see if it's holding vacuum.
So if I understand it..the reserve toggle switch just opens the valve when the fuel is low enough to trip the solenoid in the petcock. A sort of heads up warning that you are getting low on fuel. Redundant redundancy.  :good:
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

giantkiller

Quote from: 5speed on May 22, 2021, 03:14:12 PM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on May 22, 2021, 02:59:38 PM

Unlike the old school manual reserve petcocks where you have 2 inlets, one high and one low...the 86/87 petcock only needs one inlet.....it's the fuel level sensor in your tank that signals the electric valve on the petcock when to close.

Hook up an auxiliary tank to your carbs see if that helps.
I think your vacuum petcock is not staying open....what does your tongue say?

I gotta run....I'll check back this evening....later gator.  Pat
LOL..my tongue isn't saying anything. I'll hook up my actual vacuum tester and see if it's holding vacuum.
So if I understand it..the reserve toggle switch just opens the valve when the fuel is low enough to trip the solenoid in the petcock. A sort of heads up warning that you are getting low on fuel. Redundant redundancy.  :good:

I just changed mine to a pingle. Removed the  upper black wire mesh on the side panel. ( if I remember right you have to bend it down. It's been awhile. ) you don't even notice its gone. Then you can reach in and shut off turn on.  Got sick of having my crank case filling with gas.
Randy sells the  pingle. With the correct adapter plate.
86 fj1350r
86 fj1380t turbo drag toy (soon)
87 fj1200 865 miles crashed for parts
89 fj1200 touring 2up
87 fzr1000 crashed
87 fzr750r Human Race teams world endurance champion
93 fzr600 Vance n hines ltd for sale
Custom chopper I built
Mini chopper I built for my daughter just like the big 1

FJmonkey

Quote from: 5speed on May 22, 2021, 03:14:12 PM

Hook up an auxiliary tank to your carbs see if that helps.
I think your vacuum petcock is not staying open....what does your tongue say?

I gotta run....I'll check back this evening....later gator.  Pat
LOL..my tongue isn't saying anything. I'll hook up my actual vacuum tester and see if it's holding vacuum.
So if I understand it..the reserve toggle switch just opens the valve when the fuel is low enough to trip the solenoid in the petcock. A sort of heads up warning that you are getting low on fuel. Redundant redundancy.  :good:
[/quote]

If you have good fuel flow and no vacuum leak then your issue may be trying to idle off the choke. Tis would be an issue with clogged idle jets and is very common with our crappy gas. 
The glass is not half full, it was engineered with a 2X safety factor.

'86 Ambulance - Bent frame, cracked case, due for an overhaul
'89 Stormy Blue - Suits my Dark Side

5speed

Quote from: giantkiller on May 22, 2021, 03:59:58 PM


I just changed mine to a pingle. Removed the  upper black wire mesh on the side panel. ( if I remember right you have to bend it down. It's been awhile. ) you don't even notice its gone. Then you can reach in and shut off turn on.  Got sick of having my crank case filling with gas.
Randy sells the  pingle. With the correct adapter plate.
I have the rebuild kit from Randy. I'll attempt that first. I'm one of those "keep it original if at all possible" guys.
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

5speed

Quote from: FJmonkey on May 22, 2021, 04:24:26 PM


If you have good fuel flow and no vacuum leak then your issue may be trying to idle off the choke. Tis would be an issue with clogged idle jets and is very common with our crappy gas. 
If it's that..it happened really quickly. the bike started up and idled off the choke great when I moved it to the garage. It sat for about a week then this all started. But that would be my luck. lol
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

Old Rider

You might have a fuel starvation if you have the fuel line routed like in the picture you posted in this tread :http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=19883.30
The fuel line have to go under the 2 lines that go to carb 1-2 and 3-4

5speed

Quote from: Old Rider on May 22, 2021, 06:13:02 PM
You might have a fuel starvation if you have the fuel line routed like in the picture you posted in this tread :http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=19883.30
The fuel line have to go under the 2 lines that go to carb 1-2 and 3-4
I'll try that if the petcock passes the vacuum test tomorrow. :)
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

Pat Conlon

Quote from: FJmonkey on May 22, 2021, 04:24:26 PM
Quote from: 5speed on May 22, 2021, 03:14:12 PM

I'll hook up my actual vacuum tester and see if it's holding vacuum.
So if I understand it..the reserve toggle switch just opens the valve when the fuel is low enough to trip the solenoid in the petcock. A sort of heads up warning that you are getting low on fuel. Redundant redundancy.  :good:

If you have good fuel flow and no vacuum leak then your issue may be trying to idle off the choke. Tis would be an issue with clogged idle jets and is very common with our crappy gas.  

Yes, that's how I understand the electric reserve functions, good description: redundantly redundant.
If the petcock checks out and holds a vacuum and stays open...and you correctly route your fuel line.....then Mark's comment about plugged idle circuits may be the next step.
Don't get discouraged...

Don't let that big lump of aluminum idle too long without a box fan cooling it down.

Cheers
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Old Rider

 :hi: Don't want to be picky ahole :morning1:  but when i take a look at your picture of how the fuel line looks i can see an obvious and 100% cause of fuel starvation. The line is too long so after routing it under the 2 lines that goes down to the carb 1-2 and 3-4 you should cut it about where the green line is.When you look at the line from above it should reach about to the middle of carburetor 1 vacuum lid where the  red dotted line is.
I also se a problem with the ziptie where the arrow pointing it will  maybe compress the line when fueltank is mounted .
A typical symptom of kinked fuel line is the bike runs for some kilometers / minutes then bogs down when trying to give it trotthe then when waiting some minutes the bike runs for some kilometers and the same happens been there done that  :smile:

ribbert

Quote from: giantkiller on May 22, 2021, 03:59:58 PM

I just changed mine to a pingle. Removed the  upper black wire mesh on the side panel. ( if I remember right you have to bend it down. It's been awhile. ) you don't even notice its gone. Then you can reach in and shut off turn on.  Got sick of having my crank case filling with gas.


Dan, why wouldn't you use a vacuum or electric flow valve, once fitted you never need give it another thought for the life of the bike, no need to turn on/off every time you ride/stop.

Both have been done successfully by members and proven over many years of use and as the default is closed, you never have to worry about a crankcase full of fuel or contaminated oil again, ever, nor will you wake up at 3.00am wondering if you actually did turn the fuel tap off or what ignition sources might lurk in the garage that could ignite 20 litres of gasoline fumes and launch you into the next suburb.

A quality fuel shut-off solenoid can be bought for under $30.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

5speed

Quote from: Old Rider on May 23, 2021, 04:40:47 AM
:hi: Don't want to be picky ahole :morning1:  but when i take a look at your picture of how the fuel line looks i can see an obvious and 100% cause of fuel starvation. The line is too long so after routing it under the 2 lines that goes down to the carb 1-2 and 3-4 you should cut it about where the green line is.When you look at the line from above it should reach about to the middle of carburetor 1 vacuum lid where the  red dotted line is.
I also se a problem with the ziptie where the arrow pointing it will  maybe compress the line when fueltank is mounted .
A typical symptom of kinked fuel line is the bike runs for some kilometers / minutes then bogs down when trying to give it trotthe then when waiting some minutes the bike runs for some kilometers and the same happens been there done that  :smile:
not being picky at all. :)
I did cut the fuel line. I took that picture before I did. I'll check that zip tie but I'm pretty sure it isn't squeezing the fuel line.
I'm at a loss about routing the line under the lines to the carbs..with it being gravity feed I would think having the main line above the t would work better then having it under it.
Heading out after coffee #1 to do the vacuum test.
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

giantkiller

Quote from: ribbert on May 23, 2021, 06:00:39 AM
Quote from: giantkiller on May 22, 2021, 03:59:58 PM

I just changed mine to a pingle. Removed the  upper black wire mesh on the side panel. ( if I remember right you have to bend it down. It's been awhile. ) you don't even notice its gone. Then you can reach in and shut off turn on.  Got sick of having my crank case filling with gas.


Dan, why wouldn't you use a vacuum or electric flow valve, once fitted you never need give it another thought for the life of the bike, no need to turn on/off every time you ride/stop.

Both have been done successfully by members and proven over many years of use and as the default is closed, you never have to worry about a crankcase full of fuel or contaminated oil again, ever, nor will you wake up at 3.00am wondering if you actually did turn the fuel tap off or what ignition sources might lurk in the garage that could ignite 20 litres of gasoline fumes and launch you into the next suburb.

A quality fuel shut-off solenoid can be bought for under $30.



Noel

Sounds like a good idea.  I didn't know about them. I have done the go back and check thing. Where does one get a good quality one?  Thanks Noel.
86 fj1350r
86 fj1380t turbo drag toy (soon)
87 fj1200 865 miles crashed for parts
89 fj1200 touring 2up
87 fzr1000 crashed
87 fzr750r Human Race teams world endurance champion
93 fzr600 Vance n hines ltd for sale
Custom chopper I built
Mini chopper I built for my daughter just like the big 1

5speed

okay..it won't hold vacuum.
so I put Randy's kit in and it still won't hold vacuum. tested the vacuum hose..no cracks or leaks.
Now this is where I "think" I may have found the problem.. :crazy:
I took the solenoid out of the petcock, pushed the plunger down with my finger and..it holds vacuum.
At first I thought it may be bad so I tested it with my 2 amp battery charger and it pushed the plunger out (causes it to lose vacuum). tried the wires the other way, it pulled the plunger in (creates vacuum).
So I tried it on the bike..won't hold vacuum with the ignition on and the toggle switch on either "on" or reserve. so I tested to see if there is power at the plug and there is.

So here is where I think "maybe" the issue is. The fuel gauge doesn't seem to be working which makes me think the bike is sending a signal to the solenoid in the petcock to open causing a loss of vacuum. I checked the fuses and all are okay.
Is there a known issue with the fuel gauge on these bikes?
Am I getting close to the problem?
Am I way out in left field?
will the Toronto Maple Leafs win the cup?  :pardon:  <- these emoticons are hilarious.
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)