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she won't start now

Started by 5speed, May 22, 2021, 08:50:48 AM

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5speed

well heard back from Corbin. No luv. All they have is the gunfighter and lady..
going to keep the stock one.
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

ribbert

Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 07, 2021, 12:39:00 PM
Quote from: ribbert on June 07, 2021, 10:45:34 AM
Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 06, 2021, 07:22:10 AM

......you sure you got that right Noel......


Yes

Lazy answer, no cookie for you...

Pat, you were entirely correct, I was being lazy, having re-read your post it's obvious you've put a lot of time into it and the cocky tone of it demands a response.
As I said, I wrote a reply on the night but thought better of posting it, below is an edited version of that.

You said this....

Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 06, 2021, 07:22:10 AM

A 33ft column of water is one atm, or 14.7 psi, one foot height of water generates a pressure of 14.7/33, or 0.44 psi pressure.


....and that's wrong. Not the arithmetic, but how you apply it.

You say that if a 33ft column of water exerts pressure of 14.7 psi, therefore 1/33 of that height will exert 1/33 of the pressure, being 0.44psi. So, by that reasoning, if you removed the last foot of water, atmospheric pressure becomes zero at sea level, where did the 14.7psi disappear to? If this was the case planes couldn't get off the ground and toilets wouldn't flush. You agree that 14.7 psi is atmospheric pressure at sea level on one hand then set about disproving it on the other.

Atmospheric pressure is caused by gravity but doesn't act like it, it's inescapable, non-selective, multi directional. For the purpose of this discussion, it's everywhere, from oil tankers to fuel bowls. Perhaps if you visualise it as placing an object underwater it's easier to understand.

The mistakes you made were not understanding the reference to the column of water, confusing zero with absolute zero (The "zero" used for measuring and to which instruments and gauges are set is actually 14.7 psi), the relationship between gravity and pressure, doubling up on the arithmetic, suggesting that different objects are subject to different amounts of pressure, for example, you say pressure on the outside of the fuel line at 5000ft is 12.2 psi yet the pressure inside the line is 0.09! You don't seem to grasp that pressure is the same everywhere. Then there's the weird premise that atmospheric pressure at sea level is actually 33' above it and the mish mash of calculations that flowed from it, and finally, throwing in a few red herrings, like flow rate, flow resistance and altitude that have nothing to do with anything in the context of this discussion.
Certainly head pressure changes depending how full the tank is but the minimum can't be less than 14.7, that is the starting point with the lowest possible fuel level!

You calculated the fuel line pressure (which is open to the atmosphere and is the same as in the bowl) of a gravity fed FJ fuel system to be somewhere around 0.01psi, if that were so, by what action does fuel get from the carby to the cylinder?

A:  Bernoulli's principle

B:  Pat's principle

C:  Atmospheric pressure

D:  The sucking principle

So Pat, just answer me that one question above about how fuel gets to the cylinder. If you can answer that (and understand it), the flaw in your calculations will become glaringly and instantly obvious.




Noel

"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

5speed

I always thought the fuel was pulled into and thru the carb during the intake stroke of the engine.  :mail1:
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

woodcreekpete

 I sure hope this is all tongue-in-cheek because, otherwise, it's almost painfully petty.

Pat Conlon

Yea, he's just trolling....
...if he can't understand the head pressure of a 33' vertical column of water, he won't understand the head pressure of 12" of gasoline in a fuel tank....alas, all is lost.
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

Pat Conlon

Quote from: 5speed on June 09, 2021, 03:30:34 PM
I always thought the fuel was pulled into and thru the carb during the intake stroke of the engine.  :mail1:

Gravity gets the fuel to the carb bowl...then vacuum pulls the fuel into the engine.
1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

5speed

Quote from: Pat Conlon on June 09, 2021, 04:57:05 PM
Quote from: 5speed on June 09, 2021, 03:30:34 PM
I always thought the fuel was pulled into and thru the carb during the intake stroke of the engine.  :mail1:

Gravity gets the fuel to the carb bowl...then vacuum pulls the fuel into the engine.
I'm tracking.
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

FJ1200W

Noel-it-all strikes again.....

Someone call the Queen!
Steve
Columbia, Missouri
USA

ribbert

Quote from: FJ1200W on June 10, 2021, 03:02:47 PM
Noel-it-all strikes again.....

Someone call the Queen!

Thanks Steve. With all the detractors about it's nice having someone in my corner.

Good choice of adjudicator, the Queen would know the answer for sure, she's a trained mechanic! (Yes, it's true)



"....When she turned 18, at her own insistence, Princess Elizabeth joined the Auxiliary Territorial Service (ATS), where she trained as a truck driver and mechanic...."

It's a qualification she remains proud of to this day.

Good call Steve.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

Pat Conlon

Quote from: ribbert on June 11, 2021, 09:09:41 AM

Good choice of adjudicator, the Queen would know the answer for sure, she's a trained mechanic! (Yes, it's true)


Cool...I didn't know that....Ask her if she can explain this table to you:



1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3

5speed

I was hoping to avoid this but you two leave me no choice.



:biggrin:
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

Flynt

Quote from: 5speed on June 12, 2021, 02:14:12 PM
I was hoping to avoid this but you two leave me no choice.



:biggrin:

I feel the same...  what was allowed to entertain at Pat's request has become a bitch fest...

Let me ask Noel to please insert the variables in the quoted Bernoulli's equation for fluid flow and prove to everyone that atmospheres pressure (PSIa) doesn't cancel out and leave only differential pressure (head pressure from fluid column in this case) to drive fluid flow...  Pat's right and you're wrong... and I suspect well out of your depth.

Frank
There's plenty of time for sleep in the grave...

giantkiller

Back on topic of your bike. There are 2 Corbin gunfighters on fleabay right now.  One is  way over priced. And one is an auction. With no bids yet. Both need to be recovered.
86 fj1350r
86 fj1380t turbo drag toy (soon)
87 fj1200 865 miles crashed for parts
89 fj1200 touring 2up
87 fzr1000 crashed
87 fzr750r Human Race teams world endurance champion
93 fzr600 Vance n hines ltd for sale
Custom chopper I built
Mini chopper I built for my daughter just like the big 1

5speed

Quote from: giantkiller on June 13, 2021, 11:24:29 PM
Back on topic of your bike. There are 2 Corbin gunfighters on fleabay right now.  One is  way over priced. And one is an auction. With no bids yet. Both need to be recovered.
tks. unfortunately it's not in the budget right now. :(
1986 FJ1200
2000 Roadstar
1976 GL1000
1978 GL1000
1982 GL1100 (sold)

Flynt

Quote from: Flynt on June 13, 2021, 09:17:16 PM
Quote from: 5speed on June 12, 2021, 02:14:12 PM
I was hoping to avoid this but you two leave me no choice.



:biggrin:

I feel the same...  what was allowed to entertain at Pat's request has become a bitch fest...

Let me ask Noel to please insert the variables in the quoted Bernoulli's equation for fluid flow and prove to everyone that atmospheres pressure (PSIa) doesn't cancel out and leave only differential pressure (head pressure from fluid column in this case) to drive fluid flow...  Pat's right and you're wrong... and I suspect well out of your depth.

Frank

I declare this conversation is over...  the math proves clearly that the head driving bowl filling is from 8 to about 4 inches of gasoline, roughly 30% less dense than if you had water in the tank.     This is why no fuel filter was installed until Yanaha added a fuel pump (only putting out 2-3 psig BTW) to make sure the bowls stay full.

Let's move on and discuss the actual bike in question...  A humble gentleman would admit he's wrong and move on...

Frank
There's plenty of time for sleep in the grave...